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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Rift pvp 2020

  1. #76
    Rift Chaser AVGVSTVS's Avatar
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    Default wait a minute who made this one?

    it's not like we lead anywhere anyway. for the past few years, any real suggestion the game needs to prevent it from dying is mocked and twisted around anyway.
    Last edited by AVGVSTVS; 01-30-2020 at 10:00 AM.

  2. #77
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    i don't think personnal attacks will lead somewhere

  3. #78
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    I agree with Sylaen. Personal attacks are taking the game stuff too far. While Ive mentioned I love pvp forum fights, it is just a game after all.

    Take a moment to step back.

  4. #79
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    They need to work on the most obvious stupid stuff that is going on. I mean obviously if you have PvP fragments and you have vets which have 1000s of hours and wins it is going to hurt the new comers who don't have the same opportunity without max PvP fragments. It just becomes a lose your way to the top or be carried in a lot of cases. This is obviously a bad decision that is allow to exist for years and never be fixed. It discourages new players from playing the game.

    Secondly, it is obviously broken when you can instant mount and gain 160% + speed in warfronts at anytime you want as long as the warfront allows mounting. That is an obvious thing that is obviously not intended and should have been fixed years ago.

    As for class balance it is a bit complex. You need to have 1000s of hours with all classes. Can't rely on a player who only plays one class and barely to its full extent for advice about balance. They will just complain and ruin it for a lot of others. If a warrior complains about dots, and doesn't play heals ever then he will never know how truly powerful his class is against DoTs and even burst. Just for example.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 02-17-2020 at 04:50 AM.

  5. #80
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Oooo i see some old timey names here.

    And judging by this thread, it seems like i never left

    So looking to the patch notes, are healers still OP or not, wanting to dust of my cleric!

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    They need to work on the most obvious stupid stuff that is going on. I mean obviously if you have PvP fragments and you have vets which have 1000s of hours and wins it is going to hurt the new comers who don't have the same opportunity without max PvP fragments. It just becomes a lose your way to the top or be carried in a lot of cases. This is obviously a bad decision that is allow to exist for years and never be fixed. It discourages new players from playing the game.

    Secondly, it is obviously broken when you can instant mount and gain 160% + speed in warfronts at anytime you want as long as the warfront allows mounting. That is an obvious thing that is obviously not intended and should have been fixed years ago.

    As for class balance it is a bit complex. You need to have 1000s of hours with all classes. Can't rely on a player who only plays one class and barely to its full extent for advice about balance. They will just complain and ruin it for a lot of others. If a warrior complains about dots, and doesn't play heals ever then he will never know how truly powerful his class is against DoTs and even burst. Just for example.
    There are multiple basic things in the game that any unbiased person would look at and see needs a change for fairness sake. One major problem is these ongoing very glaring advantageous issues weren't addressed, and have already whittled down the playerbase to the point most the active playing vets are the ones purposefully using these methods because, why not? None of it gets looked at or changed.

    It only takes one player to ruin the fun of the rest, truly so because balance now isnt the distance of only a few varying numbers, its a huge gap that no one seems to be able to explain, especially in Pvp.

    What most people dont want to acknowledge is that there ARE these gaps which should be looked at, for balance AND so new players can get into the game and feel part of the team. You cant expect new blood to jump in and play at a vets level, and so the experience is simply...why did I die in 3 seconds. Wait I rezzed let me jump down. Ok that guy just hit me for 99k and while I was pulled in the air I died before I landed. Ok let me try my favorite spec I used while leveling. What? 80% of my specs are worthless in pvp and I need to play X or Y because they are 10 times better in pvp. Hows that balance? Ok Ill just heal. Oh Im a cleric or rogue and heals suck because Im not a mage or warrior, and their defense is way better and shields ALONG with higher heals? Ok Ill just get gear. What? Frags are RNG and some players bought a full set while other players are going a year playing and most their frags are still not maxed. Guess I need to pve farm plat for the reliquary, upkeep of potions, and to buy the latest and greatest item enchantments. Oh Ill also have to dig and research and experiment to figure out what gear is actually bis vs just having a straight set of bis gear available for one aspect of the game, since thats tough to do. Whys that guy wearing that pve item but everything else is bis pvp items? Oh its adding large bonuses to his stats bypassing bolstering? Hows that fair?

    While this isnt my experience because Im not in that state, this IS the situation for anyone attempting to try pvp. Its off-putting to anyone.

    Anyone arguing to not fix things is just another piece of the large wall actively pushing away new players.

    Heres what I truly dont get, or more or less dont think some of the bigger abusers get. You dont need to be doing 4 times the dps of everyone else or massive HPS with insane built in damage mitigation as a tank to be skillful or awesome. We CAN balance some things so your max is double the average person and you'd still be that skillful player. All these added-up massive advantages do, along with exploits, is push away new blood and ruin the game for a lot of other people. If enough people pushed for more change thats the best chance these things will get done, and pvp can be revitalized.

    Whats disappointing to me is the lack of fixes or change despite numerous suggestions (not even speaking about mine), and bugs turned in. I see no pts projects for months, no responses to dozens of basic bug reports, no real dev updates of any substance, no upcoming or mentioned class changes, no pve plans (even though I dont pve), let alone any pvp fixes. To point, I had a player challenge me to report one of his-very obvious-friends for suspicious output. Everyone knows who Im talking about. This player stated, “See what happens,” implying Gamigo wouldnt do anything because he believes they are innocent of anything. I laughed and replied plenty of other people reported them aside from me, and Ive reported several bugs, exploits and issues as well. Ive seen 0 changes. I could have told them go report ten things you know are problems/bugs and six months later none of it would be fixed. Meaning, I dont think most of anything is actually looked into. I know the CM is active and recorded things. I just think 99.9% isnt looked at. Not enough voices pushing. Heck, weeks go by with anyone posting here for example.

    As far as class balancing goes I would only take the observations of players with multiple max leveled toons, because, as you stated, people dont understand the other side of the coin unless you play it. I spam aoe cleanses on my cleric sent/puri for example, which can make a huge difference in a wf outcome vs if I didnt. I listen for the audible dot applications applied to my team and full cleanse the lead player first to try to block the next step of spreading dots to the rest of my team, then I spam heals. Ive also played warlock and defiler and Reaver so I understand the weaknesses to normally powerful souls when other players dont attempt to counter it properly. Admittedly I was very ignorant when I solely played a warrior, and my perspective changed as I played more souls. I also believe balance wont just be achieved from the highest performing perspectives, however, because you have to take into account the complicated mechanics of some of these high performing players. I.e. it may reach high numbers, but barely anyone can perform this way and you have to balance the average performer in a smart way so you dont inadvertently overbuff the better players. And, lol, Im not talking about macroed classes as complicated classes.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 02-18-2020 at 12:34 PM.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    Oooo i see some old timey names here.

    And judging by this thread, it seems like i never left

    So looking to the patch notes, are healers still OP or not, wanting to dust of my cleric!
    Mage and warrior healers are pretty tough, with high HPS equaling about 12k on the better players when the average better player hits 9k on dps. Im giving average numbers I typically see on rift meter for better players. I also believe mage and warrior newer soul abilities arent properly pvp nerfed so I believe the actual power of mage and warrior healers is much higher then the already-high HPS number. Warrior in particular on the healing souls has some very good damage reduction. I saw a pve post mentioning warchanter numbers and for a pve fight and the poster stated basically why is no one questioning this output. I.e. Im seeing very big imbalance in pvp as well so it makes sense.

    DPS: If you dust off your cleric, inquisitor is decent and shaman in close-quarter wfs for dps, but by no means are they as powerful as several other souls in the other callings. Inq has a cheesy port tactic in runeshaper build, but its not going to win matches, only give you a good kills to deaths ratio.

    HEALING: Cleric healing is about on par with rogue healing-that is to say the bottom of the barrel for most people for a couple reasons. Unlike mage or warrior the output isnt as high, and also the survivability isnt built into it like mage or warrior and, as mentioned, I believe the shields on mage/warrior are broken so their output is much higher, just not seen since shields arent captured on rift meter. Rogue heals also suffer the same issue as cleric in that the mage/warrior healers are just tougher to kill along with the higher heals.

    So if you like a challenge dust off your cleric. If you want better results with less work go mage or warrior. That is to say, your not useless by any means if you figure out the tricks for rogue/cleric heals. Ive hit 10k hps on both rogue/cleric, but I can name about two other people Ive seen hit anywhere close to that. Most rogues/clerics dont even bother healing.

    Another way to put it-the warrior and to some degree mage healers can play bad, have horrible positioning, and facetank quite a lot of players. Do that on cleric/rogue and your respawning in short order. I do believe this issue isnt just for pvp, but pve as well concerning clerics and possibly rogues being left behind heals-wise. Some pve’r can chime in and give the real answer on that.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 02-19-2020 at 10:26 AM.

  8. #83
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    Mage and warrior healers are pretty tough, with high HPS equaling about 12k on the better players when the average better player hits 9k on dps. Im giving average numbers I typically see on rift meter for better players. I also believe mage and warrior newer soul abilities arent properly pvp nerfed so I believe the actual power of mage and warrior healers is much higher then the already-high HPS number. Warrior in particular on the healing souls has some very good damage reduction. I saw a pve post mentioning warchanter numbers and for a pve fight and the poster stated basically why is no one questioning this output. I.e. Im seeing very big imbalance in pvp as well so it makes sense.

    DPS: If you dust off your cleric, inquisitor is decent and shaman in close-quarter wfs for dps, but by no means are they as powerful as several other souls in the other callings. Inq has a cheesy port tactic in runeshaper build, but its not going to win matches, only give you a good kills to deaths ratio.

    HEALING: Cleric healing is about on par with rogue healing-that is to say the bottom of the barrel for most people for a couple reasons. Unlike mage or warrior the output isnt as high, and also the survivability isnt built into it like mage or warrior and, as mentioned, I believe the shields on mage/warrior are broken so their output is much higher, just not seen since shields arent captured on rift meter. Rogue heals also suffer the same issue as cleric in that the mage/warrior healers are just tougher to kill along with the higher heals.

    So if you like a challenge dust off your cleric. If you want better results with less work go mage or warrior. That is to say, your not useless by any means if you figure out the tricks for rogue/cleric heals. Ive hit 10k hps on both rogue/cleric, but I can name about two other people Ive seen hit anywhere close to that. Most rogues/clerics dont even bother healing.

    Another way to put it-the warrior and to some degree mage healers can play bad, have horrible positioning, and facetank quite a lot of players. Do that on cleric/rogue and your respawning in short order. I do believe this issue isnt just for pvp, but pve as well concerning clerics and possibly rogues being left behind heals-wise. Some pver can chime in and give the real answer on that.

    Hmm sounds like a challenge. Welp, how are WF pops? Is it usually long wait? Should i max out to whatever the level cap is before i Queue? (That's 70 now right?)

  9. #84
    Sword of Telara Dizbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    Hmm sounds like a challenge. Welp, how are WF pops? Is it usually long wait? Should i max out to whatever the level cap is before i Queue? (That's 70 now right?)
    ---
    Exciting to see you back Eughe!
    Here is a link to a great pvp inquisitor build if you have not seen it

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    Hmm sounds like a challenge. Welp, how are WF pops? Is it usually long wait? Should i max out to whatever the level cap is before i Queue? (That's 70 now right?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    Hmm sounds like a challenge. Welp, how are WF pops? Is it usually long wait? Should i max out to whatever the level cap is before i Queue? (That's 70 now right?)
    If you pvp until 70 it does bolster you, but youll still be at a disadvantage. Though some bolstering works odd and Ive seen good results from pre 70 players.

    However, the fastest way to get max geared is to pve with exp potions. You can get some off the auction house usually is you have plat and its being sold, or the cash shop-that is unless you had some left over prior to stopping playing or if you dont get some from boxes from coming back.

    Wfs pop regularly at night most the time and weekends. Some days you'll wait a bit though. I play mostly only these times so its pretty regular.

    I would suggest doing the pve route because its a lot more fast to level up, get your full masteries and legendary abilities, and you gain notoriety and can use pve tokens to buy fragment boxes so you can break down pve frags to use as mats for upgrading your pvp frags. If you stopped before frags came out its another gearing up mechanic but you have like 12 frag spots so added together they are a good chunk of your toons power.

    If you plan on pvping and healing on your cleric I can tell you what builds to make to be a viable healing cleric. Its not like when it took 3-4 people to take down a good sent. Thats where warrior is at right now, and at that they usually dont even have to kite just facetank. All callings have several powerful choices but also limited choices when you take into account the scope of all the possibilities which should be viable to play, but most certainly arent.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    Hmm sounds like a challenge. Welp, how are WF pops? Is it usually long wait? Should i max out to whatever the level cap is before i Queue? (That's 70 now right?)
    No it is not a challenge. It is a bad investment. That is all that you need to know. You will clearly do well with cleric in some cases just because matchmaking is messed up you will feel like you contributed to wins when in fact the other side just had the worse players queueing at the time vs. your side. It happens quite a lot of time. You can basically do very little in warfronts and still win.

    Cleric is just too limited to invest in first. It would be the last class I would invest in. You will have to invest A TON of time and plat gearing up any toon. I would suggest picking rogue and primalist since they can share some PvP equipment like the PvP sigils.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 02-21-2020 at 12:45 PM.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    No it is not a challenge. It is a bad investment. That is all that you need to know. You will clearly do well with cleric in some cases just because matchmaking is messed up you will feel like you contributed to wins when in fact the other side just had the worse players queueing at the time vs. your side. It happens quite a lot of time. You can basically do very little in warfronts and still win.

    Cleric is just too limited to invest in first. It would be the last class I would invest in. You will have to invest A TON of time and plat gearing up any toon. I would suggest picking rogue and primalist since they can share some PvP equipment like the PvP sigils.
    Aww not you too Flash

    Welp my Rogue is my second most geared char from what i see and aside from my cleric, i am more familiar with it.

    Starting over with primalist isnt ideal for me.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    If you pvp until 70 it does bolster you, but youll still be at a disadvantage. Though some bolstering works odd and Ive seen good results from pre 70 players.

    However, the fastest way to get max geared is to pve with exp potions. You can get some off the auction house usually is you have plat and its being sold, or the cash shop-that is unless you had some left over prior to stopping playing or if you dont get some from boxes from coming back.

    Wfs pop regularly at night most the time and weekends. Some days you'll wait a bit though. I play mostly only these times so its pretty regular.

    I would suggest doing the pve route because its a lot more fast to level up, get your full masteries and legendary abilities, and you gain notoriety and can use pve tokens to buy fragment boxes so you can break down pve frags to use as mats for upgrading your pvp frags. If you stopped before frags came out its another gearing up mechanic but you have like 12 frag spots so added together they are a good chunk of your toons power.

    If you plan on pvping and healing on your cleric I can tell you what builds to make to be a viable healing cleric. Its not like when it took 3-4 people to take down a good sent. Thats where warrior is at right now, and at that they usually dont even have to kite just facetank. All callings have several powerful choices but also limited choices when you take into account the scope of all the possibilities which should be viable to play, but most certainly arent.

    Well i didnt HATE senti, i used it because it worked. I could DPS but i am healer at heart.

    Any souls i should be looking at? I saw something about Puri but i know that cant be right, i mean if we scraping that barrel i am scared!

  14. #89
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    @ lvl 65/66 if you know the maps and work the objectives, you can be an asset to a team in pvp. if you try to heal or dps, you will be a free bloodthirsty proc for a geared 70. playing smart will pay off more than face roll derping.

    @lvl 67-69 you can actually do some pretty OP damage thanks to the bolster and the correct choice of legendary abilities. if you have skill, it will show.

    @fresh 70 with no pvp gear (including no pvp frags) you will actually be weaker than you were at lvl 69. play smart again.

    @ 3 months after reaching 70: wonder wtf you ever came back as you still dont have even half of a set of decent pvp frags, your best crit power frag has both guard and dodge on it, and you have never seen a death frag better than tier 5.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  15. #90
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    Oooo Kronos!! Yeah I saw those orange skills tags. I assume I have to DO something to get those legendary skills and it doesnt just digivolve when I reach a certain level. I think Im gonna keep my cleric healer. Ive been through too much doom and gloom to give it up now haha.

    Sucks that WF queue has been 30 min before I logged, at least I got to level 62!

    Hope to see familar people IG wrecking my face like the good ol days!

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