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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Rift pvp 2020

  1. #61
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    Just queue up for whitefalls during the event. It is badly designed and leads to a massive exodus. I have it appear just over 50% of my random queues. It won't take you long to realize how putting your base through that type of warfront in its current design is pretty harsh and untolerable to the community. I would have had it disabled. The warfront itself is badly designed let alone the random drops. People just hiding the cap in the back of their base and running around LoSing. Very slim chance to get to kill the carrier and reclaim the stone because they are respawning left and right and eventually your team usually can't compete with the constant pressure from respawns.

    It isn't fun for me at all and I have seen players instantly leave if their team doesn't get the present which cuts timers and queue times breaking the game and making teams imbalanced for the next couple of matches since the players are now on split queue. Not fun going into matches with 4v7 since the players who are frustrated with that map are all on debuff timers.

    A logical person will always leave that warfront if their team did not cap since that is just nearly 15 mins wasted. That 15 mins could be used to completing dailies and getting plat or reorganizing your bank. Rather than just forced into AFKing until the game ends which is what it feels like. 1-2 months of this warfront being 50% of the maps being played is not good.. and drives players away especially with all the disconnects compounded on it.
    original whitefall was worse.
    this event whitefall is the improved replacement
    the current non-event whitefall is the tweaked improved replacement.

    overcoming the base turtling is possible, both through brute force or clever guile, but you need a team that can effectively work together from the same play book and doesnt quit at the first setback. this is a surprisingly difficult thing to find in a game entirely built around players working together in groups where repeating the same content over and over again until success is achieved is the expected process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  2. #62
    Shield of Telara Dizbo's Avatar
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    Default I heard it on the Rumor Mill

    Cannot confirm or deny...
    Spoiler!

  3. #63
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  4. #64
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    knowledge is power
    knowing how to use that knowledge is crit power

    Rift pvp 2020-all-things-you-know.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  5. #65
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    ^ Playing it smart is unfair since.......4ever xD

    That's the saddest tell to get, goes to show how the state of pvp is nowadays.
    Azteck@Deepwod
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  6. #66
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    Lol.

    To me, everything in Rift is highly questionable and has so many issues its almost impossible to decipher why things are how they are. We have exploits-known for years not fixed. Overpowered classes-was hit the other day for 33k charge (yes a charge) into a 55k precision strike. Just an example of gross damage from regular (non finisher) abilities, from a class thats been asked fixed for what, 3 years now? Im not picking on any particular class-there are plenty that output way too much. We have entire souls Im pretty sure dont fall under proper pvp nerfs for abilities. How unbalancing is that? Gear is a total unknown no one can straight up tell what frags do to each calling, or for that matter what frags you can/used to be able to get. Plenty of consumables shouldn't be used in wfs, and unless you pved your out of luck for keeping up with balancing consumables. Ive yet to get a reliquary and while some who pve or bought rex probably think its nothing, most people in pvp dont have/use it. Same for leeping up with healing potions/consumables. Just to get to the “competitive” buff level you have to have 30 things going at once. Talk about nullifying debuff abilities to the point of (almost) uselessness with ttk so quick.

    I could go on, but just as much effort is available to make changes for pvp, Im pretty sure thats how much effort were going to see for any hackers sending packets to an old system, which is how Ive heard its possible.

    At any rate, the level of silliness we've achieved is the fact no one can actually answer what is/shouldnt be possible in pvp. Sure someone can always output better, but at least on pve you relatively know the possible outputs and someone way above the rest then is easily seen. In pvp you have some people hitting consistent highs so high they are 100% the top numbers Ive seen anyone hit in pvp. Of course its highly suspect. However, maybe their gear is the issue. Maybe consumables. Maybe class or a combination. Really doesnt matter to me the number disparity is too ridiculous that these things should be looked into just like they do for pve to keep them in line.

    Also, using utility lowers hps/dps. I can spam attacks on all my toons and do 8-10k dps/hps. Doesnt mean that was the smartest thing yo do to win. Blindly stating numbers is ignorant thinking lower is bad play.

    Takeaway: pve has numbers you know, pvp its like there isnt a ceiling. No one is looking into why some souls do super outputs compared to others.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 01-20-2020 at 07:34 PM.

  7. #67
    Prophet of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xibitz View Post
    ^ Playing it smart is unfair since.......4ever xD
    That's the saddest tell to get, goes to show how the state of pvp is nowadays.
    I agree completely with Wrastion.

    In all honestly it's likely to be the fact that PvP is in such a messy place, that his knowledge of certain mechanics is allowing him to be way too powerful. And this can come across as pretty unfair, which it is.

    In any normal mmo, these ridiculously powerful mechanics would likely be fixed quite quickly, so that knowledge gives you a higher ceiling but not that of the Buij Khalifa.

    In popular mmo's these mechanics are often widespread and shared too, so once everyone starts using it, then it get's patched quite quickly. If only a couple of people know about these mechanics then it just looks so bad, that from an outside eye, it looks like exploiting (maybe it is?!)

    Rift has plenty of these moments. Where a combination of souls,abilities, gear and consumables create clearly unintended affects. Likely due to stacking buffs and multipliers going way out of control.

    I don't feel like a skilled player when I know something that many others don't. I just feel like a knowledgable player. Honestly, I feel like I'm cheating a bit, because with any decent mmo, this would never exist, period.


    p.s. I was generalising, I'm sure Kronos is a great player, I'm just commenting on a general trend Rift PvP has been taking. Silly things like knowing to use lvl 65 gear, knowing to use specific trinkets. Knowing how certain abilities stack.
    Last edited by Refuge; 01-21-2020 at 07:06 AM.
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  8. #68
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    Best guess: one of several friends that transferred over from EU.

    EU players have the highest pure output over everyone else, regardless of calling or class or if its dps or healing. Im not talking a one-off, Im talking an inq doing consistent 14k dps via rift meter while most other really good ones do 10k, in the same wf (I realize output varies from wf to wf), meaning if its another wf the same EU player does 10k while the other best players in game I know of do 7-8k.

    To fix pvp for any sense of balance you would start by examining any of these, or all EU players.

    Why? Ability combos are known. Its not like they are using a different method of abilities then anyone else, yet output is the highest on them indicating its something outside the sequence of pressing buttons. I.e. gear, frags, consumables, an exploit, class imbalance, etc..., It doesnt matter if they are just the best at abusing broken things, or something else is found. They all could just be the very best players ever in the history of Rift. The fact still remains there is no balancing being done to find out why they have the highest output in game, far above the best players Ive seen.

    Summary: Can someone chart pvp output like they do for pve? Any balance done to make souls viable for pve has huge discussions and charts with comparing numbers of like souls to like souls. Why is one soul doing 18k single target dps while most other top tier souls hit 10-12, comparing the best players playing them? Its totally not in line and someone should be checking how these souls are gaining such over the top numbers, specifically how the EU players are gaining such numbers because, factually, they are the highest, and are the very best candidates to help us fix the souls to be more balanced instead of being a grossly overpowered outlier.

    Maybe an EU player can chime in to help explain gear/frags/consumables and any tricks to achieve this output so the devs can better understand which souls need fixed and why for pvp balancing. It needs to be specific; general statements are meaningless.

  9. #69
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    EU players have the highest pure output over everyone else, regardless of calling or class or if its dps or healing.
    EU damage is calculated using the Metric System, while NA damage uses Imperial. the smaller units result in larger numbers even though the overall output is the same.
    Last edited by Kronos v; 01-21-2020 at 02:04 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    EU damage is calculated using the Metric System, while NA damage uses Imperial. the smaller units result in larger numbers even though the overall output is the same.
    Issue solved for EU playing on EU. Issue not solved for the EU players playing on NA servers which is what people are discussing. Several EU players have toons on NA servers-I think a group of friends transferred over. If you have rift meter, which Im assuming you do, tell me the highest consistent dps/hps players and Ill tell you their names. You (might) be surprised to find the very top players, literally top as in highest numbers Ive seen on anyone, all know each other and transferred over. They can switch callings and are also the very top performers on them too. Figuring out how they pull such numbers would be the best way to help find out the (bigger) issues in our pvp community.

    On a side note I reported the rogue lash ability not nerfed since its able to pull already-pulled people, but also requested unlike abilities (pulls vs. pushes) to no longer place each other on CD so you can play VK again and port people to you and propel them off cliffs. Doubt it will happen, but heres to hoping.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 01-21-2020 at 03:06 PM.

  11. #71
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    Issue solved for EU playing on EU. Issue not solved for the EU players playing on NA servers which is what people are discussing.
    it was a joke..

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    Lol..

    Really? Reliquary? That is very affordable and no you don't need a Rex to buy it. You can farm level 60 dungeons over and over and acquire enough plat to get one in a few hours. And even cheaper if you have friends willing to craft it for you. This is a one and buy thing and everyone should have it. It isn't like consumables where you need to constantly farm to keep the supply of it which is something PvP'ers don't want to do.

    The fault comes from not having a good PvP shop. We should be able to open up the shop and see all the consumables available from Tempest Bay merchant with updated reduced amounts of PVP currency to reflect the low population and have specific pots for PvP that only work in warfronts. It should be cheap and farmable to keep up with the endless supply needed. This will at least make it easy for everyone to go to one location and get all the things that work in PvP that are beneficial. The other option is to remove everything which is also a sound option too. However, people end up with max favor with nothing to spend on so that can be disappointing.

    Every other consumable that is out of this store shouldn't work in PvP. That and all the PA prebuffs that hide other buffs or buffs from other items and such that make purge useless. And all the PvE items that can only be got in raids and doing pve with procs need to go. I don't consider reliquary a PvE item. It is so easy to get but it makes a lot of sense if there was a specific PvP item like Reliquary if it ever goes away. What doesn't make sense is the drinks and stuff that use to work better in PvP. One drink use to basically fully heal you but now it takes several. Maybe the reason why reliquary makes sense to me. This is probably why you have always argued that TTK was too low when it wasn't that bad and asked for them to buff and when they did buff healing for instance or nerfed damage the game broke because the people using these things became even more hard to kill or matches were boring and long and ended in ties.

    I don't agree with you on some very important things. Personally, I can remember specific times down to details. I can feel the way I felt just thinking about the times when TTK was really out of control which isn't even close to how it is now. I remember 100+ KB streaks for instance. Multiple players in FOTM classes at different times getting 30+ in the same match. PvP didn't die because of this because with CQ people were getting massive amounts of favor/prestige during original and SL so people having all four classes in PvP geared up to cycle through the FOTM was very common (minus the broken pve items and when they shamelessly added RICs/DICs to get relic PvP gear that can only be had by PvE raids or slim chance at it with CQ chest.)

    However, from what I can tell what really kills PvP are OP healers, long matches, new players forced to lose their way to top against geared players. I have seen it countless times. PvP just dies gradually when there are OP healers and a broken gearing system that punishes new players. This has to do with so many reasons not only game related but how gamers are today vs. how they were years ago. I bet you are an older gamer so you have a different feeling. Maybe not able to adapt to the current generation of gamers? Since the current generation doesn't consider how much time they can spend enjoying a game anymore.. they consider how much things they can accomplish in the amount of time they have to enjoy a game. There is a difference between EU and NA players here. From what I can tell EU players have a lot of time on their hands vs. NA players. Maybe that is due to the different society.. NA is always chasing dreams compared to EU players who are more relaxed and comfortable in their position in life. Maybe it also has to do with the fast-paced society we live in now. I remember sitting down and listening to an album on a record. Then tapes came along and you can fast forward to a specific track, then CDs and you can go to a track instantly.. Now you have kids growing up putting youtube videos that are 5 mins long on 2x speed because those 2 mins they save is too precious to waste. Then you have the advent of short games that grant instant gratification. 10-15 minutes that people can compete during a train ride. All this has to be taken into account. Today's generation is so much faster than you think and if a game feels like they didn't enjoy or accomplish much for that time spent they are more likely going to move along.

    Healers tend to prevent this more since it isn't the most common role. Troll tanks are nothing new either but Riftstalker got away from the targeted nerfs that effected the other tanks since the way they are OP is different than other tanks so yah you have rogue tanks who can seem to be amazing and get wins but it is nothing new just new to the players who are playing now who are experiencing the troll tank like RiftStalker hybrids for the first time. Keep in mind they don't even realize how broken rogue use to be with old LPR, the way LSC use to work with sab and probably just realized about LSL which has been known and reported close to 3 years ago. Definitely, it was reported to Keyens awhile before he left.
    Last edited by Aedynn; Yesterday at 01:54 AM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    Really? Reliquary? That is very affordable and no you don't need a Rex to buy it. You can farm level 60 dungeons over and over and acquire enough plat to get one in a few hours. And even cheaper if you have friends willing to craft it for you. This is a one and buy thing and everyone should have it. It isn't like consumables where you need to constantly farm to keep supply of it which is something PvP'ers don't want to do.

    The fault comes from not having a good PvP shop. We should be able to open up the Shop and see all the consumables available from Tempest Bay merchant with updated reduced amounts of PVP currency to reflect the low population and have specific pots for PvP that only work in warfronts. It should be cheap and farmable to keep up with the endless supply needed. This will at least make it easy for everyone to go to one location and get all the things that work in PvP that are beneficial. The other option is to remove everything which is also a sound option too.However, people end up with max favor with nothing to spend on so that can be disappointing.

    Every other consumable that is out of this store shouldn't work in PvP. That and all the PA prebuffs that hide other buffs or buffs from other items and such that make purge useless. And all the PvE items that can only be got in raids and doing pve with procs need to go. I don't consider reliquary a PvE item.It is so easy to get but it makes a lot of sense if there was a specific PvP item like Reliquary if it ever goes away. What doesn't make sense is the drinks and stuff that use to work better in PvP. One drink use to basically full heal you but now it takes several. Maybe reason why reliquary makes sense to me. This is probably why you have always argued that TTK was too low when it wasn't t hat bad and asked for them to buff and when they did buff healing for instance or nerfed damage the game broke because the people using these things became even more hard to kill or matches were boring and long and ended in ties.

    I don't agree with you on some very important things. Personally, I can remember specific times down to details. I can feel the way I felt just thinking about the times when TTK was really out of control which isn't even close to how it is now. I remember 100K+ KB streaks for instance. Multiple players in FOTM classes at different times getting 30+ in the same match. PvP didn't die because of this because with CQ people were getting massive amounts of favor/prestige during original and SL so people having all four classes in PvP geared up to cycle through the FOTM was very common (minus the broken pve items and when they shamelessly added RICs/DICs to get relic PvP gear that can only be had by PvE raids or slim chance at it with CQ chest.)

    However, from what I can tell what really kills PvP are OP healers, long matches, new players forced to lose their way to top against geared players. I have seen it countless times. PvP just dies gradually when there are OP healers and a broken gearing system that punishes new players. This has to do with so many reasons not only game related but how gamers are today vs. how they were years ago. I bet you are an older gamer so you have a different feeling. Maybe not able to adapt to the current generation of gamers? Since the current generation doesn't consider how much time they can spend enjoying a game anymore.. they consider how much things they can accomplish in the amount of time they have to enjoy a game. There is a difference between EU and NA player here. From what I can tell EU players have a lot of time on their hands vs. NA players. Maybe that is do to the different society.. NA is always chasing dreams compared to EU players who are more relaxed and comfortable in their position in life. Maybe it also has to do with the fast pace society we live in now. I remember sitting down and listening to an album on a record. Then tapes came along and you can fast forward to a specific track, then CDs and you can go to a track instantly.. Now you have kids growing up putting youtube videos that are 5 mins long on 2x speed because those 2 mins they save is too precious to waste. Then you have the advent of short games that grant instant gratification. 10-15 minute that people can compete during a train ride. All this has to be taken into account. Today's generation is so much faster than you think and if a game feels like they didn't enjoy or accomplish much for that time spent they are more likely going to move along.

    Healers tend to prevent this more since it isn't the most common role. Troll tanks are nothing new either but Riftstalker got away from the targeted nerfs that effected the other tanks since the way they are OP is different than other tanks so yah you have rogue tanks who can seem to be amazing and get wins but it is nothing new just new to the players who are playing now who are experiencing the troll tank like RiftStalker hybrids for first time. Keep in mind they don't even realize how broken rogue use to be with old LPR, the way LSC use to work with sab and probably just realized about LSL which has been known and reported close to 3 years ago. Definitely, was reported to Keyens awhile before he left.
    I understand there will be key things everyone disagrees upon. Thats ok-we all have our individual points of view, but I also believe many of us have similar views that are just being looked at differently, but are aiming for the same goals. Ill simply hi light some points that may (or may not) be misconstrued.

    1. I dps and heal. I know what its like to be frustrated with too powerful heals, as well as too weak heals. This game seems to go from one extreme to the next with several healing souls and this causes the issues. So when I say heals are too weak, Im specific about which heals. Ive also stated warrior and mage need looked at to potentially lower heals, and look at their shields specifically to see if they are pvp nerf-compliant. I then state physician, bard, defiler, sent and puri need looked at for potential buffs. Im pretty specific in why. This confused me because reading your reply Im getting the impression you only think I want heal buffs, which is incorrect from everything Ive written.

    If you do disagree with me, be more specific. You would then have the opinion that warrior and mage are at a good point for healing, and that sent, puri, defiler, physician, bard are competitive healing souls.

    2. When I speak in detail about ttk I have to be more general about the direction the game goes due to a serious lack of manpower. More specifically Id love to, say, point out threshers maw, Rift Burst, spammed decisive strikes or regular precision strikes, etc.., to lower these things to be in more line with other like souls, but thats a lot of work. IMO the vast majority of souls are unusable due to our current Ttk. Basically smashing a dps ability is > hitting a utility button (for the most part). There is no action/reaction-its really just spam your best dps skipping any other buildup. Also, if you fixed ttk, the majority of useless healing souls by default get fixed without touching them. You'd just have to then lower mage/warrior heals which would become too powerful.

    On a side note your whole discussion on new gamers preferring fast paced vs old gamers I dont disagree with your psychological breakdown, but thats not anything new. That existed when Rift was created, meaning it didnt shape how Rift was intended to be. To be very specific, our pace is completely due to a skeleton crew shoving all ability growths into 1-2 abilities and making character progression based off of eternals and your whole build built off of defining 41 and more importantly 61 point builds. Vs in old times they would revamp entire abilities and space out the upgrades within the trees to, you know, balance things. Pvp wasnt even considered when making these lazy, quick fixes to give players a sense that your toon leveled up his skill(s). Just look at your 61 point abilities everything's shoved into there. It never was that overly crowded before career cuts to the staff.

    Agree, in older times ttk had points of craziness. 100 + kills were due to bugs and/or design flaws, but got fixed in a relatively short time frame. 40-50 + kbs lasted months but were fixed eventually. Lots of this was due in part to heals being either completely useless or too powerful. That and broken mechanics like champions titan strike and ignoring armor.

    3. As far as adapting Im more in the game for the fun builds I can make vs my ability to build one long dps macro with break free built into it. That being said I can get 8-10k dps/hps on all my toons if I simply spam certain buttons. If anything everyones definition of keeping up, or winning, in a wf varies with some people preferring the goal of surviving with a good score winning, some ferl the highest dps is winning, or hps. Some tanks feel if they defended a spot flawlessly they are “winning”. Some feel winning the match is their true success. For me I try to accomplish it all, but if I go 1-5, yet died constantly because I was pulling the enemy healer over and over or that one dps that never dies and thus nullified a very powerful player, I was successful for the team utilizing utility unlike anyone else. Next game I decide not to use my pull, and get myself completely focused by multiple dps because the method was indeed messing with a very powerful player, and I go 20-3 or something not placing myself in vulnerable positioning. Next game I heal everyone, etc..,. Wanting to fix things isnt a lack of adapting imo, and while I understand your generalized breakdown of gaming society, I dont believe it applies to my discussions on balance.

    Balance is as simple as 2-3 souls killing players in 5 gcd and the rest take 10 gcds or more. 2 healing souls fo 12k hps all the rest do 8-10 max with less tankiness and most do 5k or less. None of those examples are anywhere close to balanced, but its actually our situation. This has nothing to fo with adaptation.

    4. EU numbers are the highest Ive seen anyone hit. If several players know what buttons to hit in what order, yet output is greatly varied, what then is the differentiating factor? It would have to be other-then buttons hit in the same order. I.e. gear, frags, consumables, exploits, or something unknown or unintended ability interactions. To help everyone understand why output can achieve such high ceilings you would study and investigate their gear, frags, consumables, etc..,

    Exploits are simply unintended interactions known, but used for advantage. So simply put an exploit can simply be something left in game that Trion never fixed, but wasnt intended that way and you use it as they left it.

    Do they exist? Yep? Plenty of them too. Can you spam Dark Malady from NB on a rogue? I can. Can you destroy a node in Karthan Ridge, and still keep the stone? I cannot list on here how its done, but knowing these things exist/have for a while makes me wonder how many more there are I dont know about. Looking at top performers might help figure some more out to be fixed. Mind you Im only interested in outlier abilities getting fixed, not ones that dont unbalance the game. Why focus on unimportant things when theres hardly any manpower to fix the huge ones is my thoughts on that.

    5. I got tired of having to pve to get items. Been there done that when they forced pve gear as bis on us. Telling me to pve for hours to get the plat for a reliquary is against what I feel I should do to gain pvp item competitiveness. Hey, we all have to take stands!

    Between frags and potions and item enchantments and reliquaries, yes its too much since you barely gain plat from just Pvping. I have one max frag on all my toons-thats it. While I realize this situation doesnt apply to those that do pve, its a testament to a pure pvper being under-geared after long months of playing that I would never suggest incorrectly to a pure pvper looking to come back or get into pvp that they will be fairly competitive even after grinding for a while. Its a big wall, unnecessarily so.

    I totally agree with your idea of fixing a pvp items/gear/enchantment only shop, which I feel would also work wonders for balancing souls. Gear confusion is real, especially in pvp.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    it was a joke..
    I actually took it as a joke, then at second glance I wasnt sure if you were serious.

    Apologies for underestimating your pvp forum cleverness.

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    You can sell the gold artifacts from PvP for a good amount. They are rare and I have people who don't even PvP in my guild who buy them for low prices 50-100p when they show up on AH and resell them for double and sometimes triple the amount. The rare ones from the new souls can even sell for 400-500p. Most I ever sold one of the primalist heads was 600plat.

    I understand that this sort of profit is unsustainable as the people who want the collections are a very small pool of players and the population being so small now makes it worse to get plat from PvP. As for reli., even with just doing the weeklies, dailies, and warfront charges you get a decent amount of plat. It shouldn't be a problem to get before you even get enough favor to gear up your toon. I think they should definitely bump the plat you get from PvP or just make PvP not require a plat sink but a favor sink instead.

    The biggest problem I can see is cores and planarite cost for PvP fragments more than plat. More people will tend to reroll PVP fragments at levels 6 and 9 since it is so rare to get good tier 2-4s. The drop rate of these are so rare, cost so high, and Devs didn't think about the P2W aspect of it where people can just buy cores and sell rex for plat. Also, PvP/PvE was so much better when you didn't have to invest in 2 to 4 sets of fragments for a single class. DPS PvP, Tank/Heal PvP, DPS PvE, Tank/Heal PvE for example. That is just too much and some people will do it and others won't even bother to do more than 1 set. Stacking RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG with fragments is just too much especially when you have to pay for each roll of RNG at every layer of RNG.

    They have to realize how class locking this has been for many players and why it has been one of the top reasons why the player base has diminished. It basically forces players to limit their playability. Trion tried to restructure their entire player base to be something it would never be used to. Going from many players who had multiple classes who played in every avenue the game offered to fewer and fewer players with fewer classes playing in fewer avenues the game offered. I don't think they considered how much they limited playability and in the end, they just used that lack of players as an excuse to not develop content.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; Yesterday at 01:20 PM.

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