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Thread: good thing we nerfed primalist healing

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default good thing we nerfed primalist healing

    otherwise we would have a massive class imbalance in pvp...

    oh wait...


    I will agree farseer healing was a bit overpower (and by a bit i mean a lot) but what you did with your knee jerk reaction was leave in place massive burst potential dps specs with zero counters, you now have entire teams of threshers maw primalist and riftblade warriors skipping around killing people at their leisure with little to no buildup on instant cast abilities with range and/or the ability to close.

    either give us back a viable healer (doesn't have to be farseer either) or nerf the huge burst specs so pvp has some semblance of balance.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy1212 View Post
    otherwise we would have a massive class imbalance in pvp...

    oh wait...


    I will agree farseer healing was a bit overpower (and by a bit i mean a lot) but what you did with your knee jerk reaction was leave in place massive burst potential dps specs with zero counters, you now have entire teams of threshers maw primalist and riftblade warriors skipping around killing people at their leisure with little to no buildup on instant cast abilities with range and/or the ability to close.

    either give us back a viable healer (doesn't have to be farseer either) or nerf the huge burst specs so pvp has some semblance of balance.
    We had a greater class imbalance with farseer not properly pvp nerfed by the fact if both sides didnt have one the match was pretty much decided from the start.

    The issue was that they upped dps by 100% to counter farseers, then nerfed farseer. A double whammy so to speak. All this did was overtune already powerful burst classes.

    However, farseer is in the perfect place like a lot of other heal souls. That is to say, underperforming. This is perfect if they simply properly fix unfixed abilities in the few other healing souls like warrior to get all healing souls at the same spot. Then do a blanket heal % increase. This would re-enable multiple viable healing souls in all callings. I dont want farseer or any individual healing soul buffed. I want them all buffed.

    If you fix the incorrectly working healing abilities, then increase all heals, healers would once more use multiple abilities because the mass majority of healing abilities underperforming would become decent and worthwhile to cast, advancing the selection and playstyle of healers as a whole. For too long have healers in general been secluded into a small subsection of take this one soul or youll suck situation.

    Imagine if you could be only riftblade for dps or your really going to put out horrible numbers-thats it. Sure you can try another soul and hit 10 tomes the abilities and fo a complicated rotation, only to be 50% as effective as that one guy hitting one button. Thats how healers are currently. While there are some decent healers, its usually a max geared player who knows what they are doing. Or you can be a warrior and thats the one EZ mode healing soul currently with broken incorrectly working heals in pvp. Lets widen the choices.

    Summary: Ask dev to correct the few healing souls bypassing pvp heal nerfs or incorrectly working exploits (guard), then blanket increase all heals. Youll get darn close to fixing a lot of heals this way and introduce whole souls back into the game with wfs being more dynamic with everyone having more viable heal builds to turn to.

    I remember when teams would ask the group if we could get one or two more healers, and it didnt matter what soul it was it still contributed. The healing soul choices are far from that now.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 10-10-2019 at 09:10 PM.

  3. #3
    Champion of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy1212 View Post
    otherwise we would have a massive class imbalance in pvp...

    oh wait...


    I will agree farseer healing was a bit overpower (and by a bit i mean a lot) but what you did with your knee jerk reaction was leave in place massive burst potential dps specs with zero counters, you now have entire teams of threshers maw primalist and riftblade warriors skipping around killing people at their leisure with little to no buildup on instant cast abilities with range and/or the ability to close.

    either give us back a viable healer (doesn't have to be farseer either) or nerf the huge burst specs so pvp has some semblance of balance.
    Still better than farseers! Don't know why they changed the heal ratio anyway, all they had to do was nerf primalists. Oh wellz, damage is done.
    Last edited by Refuge; 10-10-2019 at 11:06 PM.
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    "and it didnt matter what soul it was it still contributed."

    this was the point behind my post, when nearly everyone is going literally 1 soul 1 spec something is wrong

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    Warfronts are not 1 v 1 where TTK should be high. It is usually 5-15 vs 5-15. 5 vs 5 Farseer is still massively strong and will make a big impact if the other side doesn't have a healer. In 15 vs 15 the ideal party is not dps vs dps but consist not only of more healers but also maybe 1 or 2 tanks. And there are plenty of times a tank can force a party to attack them since they can be holding an objective etc. which puts points on the board and forces players to focus them rather than another squishy target.

    If the game had arena style 3v3 or 1v1 TTK would be needed to increase. You have to look at what the possibilities are in a group make up.

    The problem with most of the outlier specs in mostly ease and frequency of burst anyway which would require devs to make mechanical change choices to the class. They can add pvp nerfs but it won't fix the two main problems and it could possibly over nerf them. And even with a 15% nerf most geared warriors and primalist won't see a big change to their overkills. They need to make it a bit more difficult to deliver burst.. Not much more but to a point where it isn't as frequent and easy to do as it is now. Think of maybe procs like Harb has or longer CD's and build up like cleric has or easy to bypass with interrupts and cc.

    Either way they have to come to the conclusion that random PvP war fragments are totally bad and killing the population which they seem to not have realized yet. They should make the fragments easier to acquire at the very least for new players to invest in them. If you are still waiting 6 months later for a water or air or fire CP fragment to drop vs. someone who has farmed out 20-30x as many because of better RNG in those 6 months they have a severe advantage not only on their main but also since they can transfer to their alts they get that advantage as well. So long term players are just ripping apart new players before they can even see what is about and 80% + players who experience that never return to PvP. 40% don't even return to PvE in most Free to Play games including mobas. Until they realize that this is killing player retention rates nothing really can be fixed.

    A quick but less ideal fix is to increase the drop rate of fragments. Have a 10/10 currency that people can get every week like challenger marks with a cap and have 1 to 1 trade in for War Fragment Boxes in pvp for say 30K favor each. This will allow players to catch up and older players to reinvest at the same time.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 10-11-2019 at 02:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    Warfronts are not 1 v 1 where TTK should be high. It is usually 5-15 vs 5-15. 5 vs 5 Farseer is still massively strong and will make a big impact if the other side doesn't have a healer. In 15 vs 15 the ideal party is not dps vs dps but consist not only of more healers but also maybe 1 or 2 tanks. And there are plenty of times a tank can force a party to attack them since they can be holding an objective etc. which puts points on the board and forces players to focus them rather than another squishy target.

    If the game had arena style 3v3 or 1v1 TTK would be needed to increase. You have to look at what the possibilities are in a group make up.

    The problem with most of the outlier specs in mostly ease and frequency of burst anyway which would require devs to make mechanical change choices to the class. They can add pvp nerfs but it won't fix the two main problems and it could possibly over nerf them. And even with a 15% nerf most geared warriors and primalist won't see a big change to their overkills. They need to make it a bit more difficult to deliver burst.. Not much more but to a point where it isn't as frequent and easy to do as it is now. Think of maybe procs like Harb has or longer CD's and build up like cleric has or easy to bypass with interrupts and cc.

    Either way they have to come to the conclusion that random PvP war fragments are totally bad and killing the population which they seem to not have realized yet. They should make the fragments easier to acquire at the very least for new players to invest in them. If you are still waiting 6 months later for a water or air or fire CP fragment to drop vs. someone who has farmed out 20-30x as many because of better RNG in those 6 months they have a severe advantage not only on their main but also since they can transfer to their alts they get that advantage as well. So long term players are just ripping apart new players before they can even see what is about and 80% + players who experience that never return to PvP. 40% don't even return to PvE in most Free to Play games including mobas. Until they realize that this is killing player retention rates nothing really can be fixed.

    A quick but less ideal fix is to increase the drop rate of fragments. Have a 10/10 currency that people can get every week like challenger marks with a cap and have 1 to 1 trade in for War Fragment Boxes in pvp for say 30K favor each. This will allow players to catch up and older players to reinvest at the same time.
    I like your idea, but Id say just make buyable pvp frags with favor no rng boxes. That way all our gear has its max attainable by everyone.

    Theyd also be able to fix certain callings by balancing the frags this way since each calling could have its frag stats varied. Some souls have such high crit % inherently that crit power is so much better for them then other souls, despite it still being the top stat a lot want.

    But yes burst frequency is a huge issue, but so are the numbers being put out for said burst.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 10-12-2019 at 02:00 AM.

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    That's hilarious.. This is what happens when the playerbase wants power and the company oblige. this prevents the game from being fair for everyone except themselfs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyedanpol View Post
    That's hilarious.. This is what happens when the playerbase wants power and the company oblige. this prevents the game from being fair for everyone except themselfs.
    True to some extent, but its not bad to have some souls a little better then others. The problem is the gap is extremely huge. You could take the same player same skill on an OP soul killing people in 3-4 globals and on the mass majority of other then OP souls theyd kill players in 10-12 globals. Roughly a 75% power difference.

    Having a couple souls 10-20% better, ok we can deal with it. Having souls extremely much better then most the others, then you have huge imbalances which are felt by all whether your on the unbalancing souls team or against. I prefer neither case and like more balanced wfs, which we occasionally get when players start going on alts.

    Game can be fixed but at this point its easiest to fix the few crazy powerful abilities then buff everyone else. Threshers maw and Rift burst and poison procs as well as paragon can use a fix for the betterment of all. BD of course but hey after 2+ years no ones listening to that.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 10-13-2019 at 05:27 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    True to some extent, but its not bad to have some souls a little better then others. The problem is the gap is extremely huge. You could take the same player same skill on an OP soul killing people in 3-4 globals and on the mass majority of other then OP souls theyd kill players in 10-12 globals. Roughly a 75% power difference.

    Having a couple souls 10-20% better, ok we can deal with it. Having souls extremely much better then most the others, then you have huge imbalances which are felt by all whether your on the unbalancing souls team or against. I prefer neither case and like more balanced wfs, which we occasionally get when players start going on alts.

    Game can be fixed but at this point its easiest to fix the few crazy powerful abilities then buff everyone else. Threshers maw and Rift burst and poison procs as well as paragon can use a fix for the betterment of all. BD of course but hey after 2+ years no ones listening to that.
    The game would be better if they fixed all the souls no matter how difficult or time consuming it may be, that is a fact. they need to start doing what's right. If they continue to chase the carrot like they have nothing will change.

    And yes it is bad to have some souls a little better than the others, people will pick the path of least resistance (even more so if they've been playing a while) what do you think trion did for a long time? they were selling power (that extra 10-20% you were talking about) for years and look where the state of the game is at now. It's only going to get worse and worse if they continue to pander to these power hungry players.


  10. #10
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    It is a bit more complicated than just balancing classes.

    There are a number of overlooked and misunderstood realities about the way PvP is implemented and these realities all contribute to the current poor state of balance in PvP.

    Itemization:
    War Planar Fragments. The RNG of receiving these fragments, the cost to upgrade, the path to upgrade are all at fault. The trickle effect and PTW effect these caused. So a player started the expansion with say 50K plat. They instantly upgraded all CP war fragments they got knowing they can just sell Rex or buy cores with credits. That one player who happened to benefit from a much better drop rate of fragments earlier on before they changed drop rates. That one player who happened to play an OP class in PvP. That one player now winning most games and having a severe advantage over the rest of the base. The effect this one play has on the overall population would cause players to not participate in that gameplay which makes the population drop significantly. How? So you have this awful matchmaking. It puts you constantly vs. that player. You then decide that you want no part in it and leave. So the matchmaking goes to the next player to match against them.. and they leave and the cycle continues on and on until you are left with a mostly devastated player population in PvP. The trickle effect.

    This was the reality for the latest expansion that still goes unnoticed or acknowledged today. By allowing this game concept to exist that one player ate away at the population over time and all the potential revenue that population would have generated for the company is lost. Add in a few players doing it and taking turns doing it and in NO TIME at all you effectively allowed a few players to DESTROY your Rift population. Queue times went from instant to taking a few minutes to large parts of the day where that content never gets played to ultimately a handful of players trying to get a pop for a warfront with alt accounts and afk'ers during off peak hours to throw themselves win which IS happening. They lost tons of players who would still be playing and spending on the game and continue to do so today because they did nothing about it.

    Plus, having any sort of Pay to Win PvP will give any gaming company a bad rating or rap. It continues to do for Gamigo what it did for Trion as well so this goes even further than the devs think. It means not only does Rift suffer but so does Archeage population and other games they are linked to the company because all the players will assume through mindshare that the company will eventually make PvP Pay to Win. Mindshare is also extremely powerful and it doesn't take many disgruntle players to start a trend that can last a lifetime for that company.

    Gear Itemization. The RNG of receiving many pieces. The fact that some pieces are less an upgrade than PvE items. The constant problem with PvE items making its way into PvP as best in slot especially items that have a proc that works in PvP. Unbolstered Earring slots for martial classes were a huge problem in-game balance for way too long of a time. These problems need to be taken care of as fast as possible or there should have been ways to deter the impact of it in place... like deactivate bolstering for all classes in that slot until it was fixed or activate pre 70 bolstering on that slot until a solution was found.

    Consumables: People don't realize how "good" consumables are in PvP nor do they want to spend a lot of time figuring out all the different ones. Most pvp'ers will enjoy logging in and just pvping not having to craft or farm certain mats or level any craft or pay to get extra crafts they don't have. For instance, a basic food will not consume a feast buff like other non-basic foods. All additional consumables that are useful from insoles, padding, plating, weapon stones to vials, different types of healing consumables, panacea etc. Some items help to increase/decrease stealth detection. Others add some extra life or reduce the time of CC effects. Some enable faster mount speed or faster time to mount. In my opinion, PvP should have its own set of working consumables or at least offer players a lower quality version for Favor for every consumable that works in PvP for direct purchase with favor. At this moment in time, PvP'ers would contribute more to the economy than PvE'ers in terms of spending power if they used all of what the game offered. You can still get some older consumables from your main city from the original Rift that adds punitive stats that stack with other consumables etc. At the moment everything is all over the place and PvP'ers are left in the dark about what is available to them from crafting and other vendors unless they look into it deeply. The founders had got it right the first time with consumables for PvP that are earned through PvP. A slightly lower version of what a PvE'er or crafter can make would at least alert the population to what is available on the market and if they wanted to spend for the better versions some would. Keep in mind someone who farms plat will always have more buying power than someone who pvp who at the moment would have all the spending power and pvp is massively unrewarding when it comes to offering the top spenders buying power at least for the in game market. For instance, I can carry a weapon stone through 3 raids without replacing it since I just raid log and our group is done with progression on all the raids. However, a pvp'er would play hours a day since no locks to pvp and will probably replace that stone vial or pots feast etc. multiple times A DAY rather than a raid logger who will use those consumables once a week.

    Some other things to look into. Planar Skills and Buffs and other general cosmetic buffs used to hide other major buffs. Some buffs that can be purged and shouldn't vs. others that can't and should have been also overlooked. There is some PAs that work and others that don't. Like you all have access to second charge ability in PA that works in PvP. The PvP only skills. Lots of players don't realize they have stuff like cleanse soul or other talents to help increase survivability or give extra CC. You can even go to the basic character traits where some work in pvp and some don't. That can make new players regret their own race choice.

    Right now you have to rely on other people to tell you how the game works since there is no good guide to it. I have known people who pvp'ed for a long time and didn't even realize that war fragments were different from PvE fragments. Many people still don't know and won't realize it for years. So they come in with this terrible experience when it comes to class balance and asks for direct class changes.

    The devs should consider making the learning curve easier for new players and absolutely apparent with proper tooltips, easier itemization etc. Maybe someone can create an ADD ON with all the beneficiaries that can be accessed for PvP like KBM even with some explanations about each warfront. In my opinion, all of these things need to be worked on as well as class balance. Sticky the add on top of the PvP forums so people will have instant access to it. There will always be massively lazy carries in PvP that won't even put any effort into understanding pvp but at least those who DO want to put a basic amount of effort into it would find it a lot easier to get into pvp with such an add on.

    Unfortunately, they don't have good quality tech leads. They may think this is small potatoes and doesn't matter but it really does. It only takes a few disgruntled or ignorant players to cause negative mind share to happen and THAT mind share can give a company an insanely bad reputation. Then the excuses come rolling in like well another more popular game is being released and that's why they lost half their population in 3 months etc. This started to happen to Trion before it was forced to sell out and the devs became outspoken about not being able to do any work for x, y, z reasons. Gamigo is sort of in a safe zone because it has a wide selection of games and they just look at possibly overall profit margin from all their games. And in most cases, if the game does generate profit it won't probably be reinvested into the game but it would probably be used to acquire more defunct games into its portfolio.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 10-19-2019 at 03:32 AM.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Lyedanpol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    It is a bit more complicated than just balancing classes.

    There are a number of overlooked and misunderstood realities about the way PvP is implemented and these realities all contribute to the current poor state of balance in PvP.

    Itemization:
    War Planar Fragments. The RNG of receiving these fragments, the cost to upgrade, the path to upgrade are all at fault. The trickle effect and PTW effect these caused. So a player started the expansion with say 50K plat. They instantly upgraded all CP war fragments they got knowing they can just sell Rex or buy cores with credits. That one player who happened to benefit from a much better drop rate of fragments earlier on before they changed drop rates. That one player who happened to play an OP class in PvP. That one player now winning most games and having a severe advantage over the rest of the base. The effect this one play has on the overall population would cause players to not participate in that gameplay which makes the population drop significantly. How? So you have this awful matchmaking. It puts you constantly vs. that player. You then decide that you want no part in it and leave. So the matchmaking goes to the next player to match against them.. and they leave and the cycle continues on and on until you are left with a mostly devastated player population in PvP. The trickle effect.

    This was the reality for the latest expansion that still goes unnoticed or acknowledged today. By allowing this game concept to exist that one player ate away at the population over time and all the potential revenue that population would have generated for the company is lost. Add in a few players doing it and taking turns doing it and in NO TIME at all you effectively allowed a few players to DESTROY your Rift population. Queue times went from instant to taking a few minutes to large parts of the day where that content never gets played to ultimately a handful of players trying to get a pop for a warfront with alt accounts and afk'ers during off peak hours to throw themselves win which IS happening. They lost tons of players who would still be playing and spending on the game and continue to do so today because they did nothing about it.

    Plus, having any sort of Pay to Win PvP will give any gaming company a bad rating or rap. It continues to do for Gamigo what it did for Trion as well so this goes even further than the devs think. It means not only does Rift suffer but so does Archeage population and other games they are linked to the company because all the players will assume through mindshare that the company will eventually make PvP Pay to Win. Mindshare is also extremely powerful and it doesn't take many disgruntle players to start a trend that can last a lifetime for that company.

    Gear Itemization. The RNG of receiving many pieces. The fact that some pieces are less an upgrade than PvE items. The constant problem with PvE items making its way into PvP as best in slot especially items that have a proc that works in PvP. Unbolstered Earring slots for martial classes were a huge problem in-game balance for way too long of a time. These problems need to be taken care of as fast as possible or there should have been ways to deter the impact of it in place... like deactivate bolstering for all classes in that slot until it was fixed or activate pre 70 bolstering on that slot until a solution was found.

    Consumables: People don't realize how "good" consumables are in PvP nor do they want to spend a lot of time figuring out all the different ones. Most pvp'ers will enjoy logging in and just pvping not having to craft or farm certain mats or level any craft or pay to get extra crafts they don't have. For instance, a basic food will not consume a feast buff like other non-basic foods. All additional consumables that are useful from insoles, padding, plating, weapon stones to vials, different types of healing consumables, panacea etc. Some items help to increase/decrease stealth detection. Others add some extra life or reduce the time of CC effects. Some enable faster mount speed or faster time to mount. In my opinion, PvP should have its own set of working consumables or at least offer players a lower quality version for Favor for every consumable that works in PvP for direct purchase with favor. At this moment in time, PvP'ers would contribute more to the economy than PvE'ers in terms of spending power if they used all of what the game offered. You can still get some older consumables from your main city from the original Rift that adds punitive stats that stack with other consumables etc. At the moment everything is all over the place and PvP'ers are left in the dark about what is available to them from crafting and other vendors unless they look into it deeply. The founders had got it right the first time with consumables for PvP that are earned through PvP. A slightly lower version of what a PvE'er or crafter can make would at least alert the population to what is available on the market and if they wanted to spend for the better versions some would. Keep in mind someone who farms plat will always have more buying power than someone who pvp who at the moment would have all the spending power and pvp is massively unrewarding when it comes to offering the top spenders buying power at least for the in game market. For instance, I can carry a weapon stone through 3 raids without replacing it since I just raid log and our group is done with progression on all the raids. However, a pvp'er would play hours a day since no locks to pvp and will probably replace that stone vial or pots feast etc. multiple times A DAY rather than a raid logger who will use those consumables once a week.

    Some other things to look into. Planar Skills and Buffs and other general cosmetic buffs used to hide other major buffs. Some buffs that can be purged and shouldn't vs. others that can't and should have been also overlooked. There is some PAs that work and others that don't. Like you all have access to second charge ability in PA that works in PvP. The PvP only skills. Lots of players don't realize they have stuff like cleanse soul or other talents to help increase survivability or give extra CC. You can even go to the basic character traits where some work in pvp and some don't. That can make new players regret their own race choice.

    Right now you have to rely on other people to tell you how the game works since there is no good guide to it. I have known people who pvp'ed for a long time and didn't even realize that war fragments were different from PvE fragments. Many people still don't know and won't realize it for years. So they come in with this terrible experience when it comes to class balance and asks for direct class changes.

    The devs should consider making the learning curve easier for new players and absolutely apparent with proper tooltips, easier itemization etc. Maybe someone can create an ADD ON with all the beneficiaries that can be accessed for PvP like KBM even with some explanations about each warfront. In my opinion, all of these things need to be worked on as well as class balance. Sticky the add on top of the PvP forums so people will have instant access to it. There will always be massively lazy carries in PvP that won't even put any effort into understanding pvp but at least those who DO want to put a basic amount of effort into it would find it a lot easier to get into pvp with such an add on.

    Unfortunately, they don't have good quality tech leads. They may think this is small potatoes and doesn't matter but it really does. It only takes a few disgruntled or ignorant players to cause negative mind share to happen and THAT mind share can give a company an insanely bad reputation. Then the excuses come rolling in like well another more popular game is being released and that's why they lost half their population in 3 months etc. This started to happen to Trion before it was forced to sell out and the devs became outspoken about not being able to do any work for x, y, z reasons. Gamigo is sort of in a safe zone because it has a wide selection of games and they just look at possibly overall profit margin from all their games. And in most cases, if the game does generate profit it won't probably be reinvested into the game but it would probably be used to acquire more defunct games into its portfolio.
    EXACTLY DUDE!!!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    WALL OF TEXT
    None of this has to do with the topic at hand burst dmg needs a proper counter in the form of a tank or healer that can effectively counter it PERIOD

    Farseerer's indiscriminate AOE sustained 'burst' healing allowed undergeared players a chance to live long enough to figure out what was going on, but it was also excessive and unbalancing. we need something like it that removes the ability for a few classes to KB masturbate. Even the crappiest just hit 70 no fragment no gear player on any soul player should live longer than 3 seconds.

    A simple start would be double healing, and reduce damage by 35% and begin an aggressive fine turning of skills starting with threshesrmaw, and rift burst

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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy1212 View Post
    None of this has to do with the topic at hand burst dmg needs a proper counter in the form of a tank or healer that can effectively counter it PERIOD

    Farseerer's indiscriminate AOE sustained 'burst' healing allowed undergeared players a chance to live long enough to figure out what was going on, but it was also excessive and unbalancing. we need something like it that removes the ability for a few classes to KB masturbate. Even the crappiest just hit 70 no fragment no gear player on any soul player should live longer than 3 seconds.

    A simple start would be double healing, and reduce damage by 35% and begin an aggressive fine turning of skills starting with threshesrmaw, and rift burst
    I agree with what your saying. I also agree with Fleshmemory, even though he went slightly off topic, he's hitting points that I've been hitting for a long time as well, and I 100% agree with his post. I think he's trying to point out how some souls (or particular players) are putting out more dps then others. Its sad, but this isn't about skill, just purely that certain players do way more damage ability for ability, then even other max geared players. I can only assume frags are a huge unbalancing point. I have no problem dying in a fair fight, but with the way some players are doing damage, literally killing FULL GEARED players in 3-5 globals (not just new fresh 70s). It's like a bug that never got fixed. I mean they used to take weeks to fix outliers like that, but no one seems to even be looking at these crazy souls. I honestly don't care when I die to one, there's nothing I can do. Its not about skill. To this day I still refuse to play certain souls I realize its unhealthy for the pvp community. The lack of fixing these way overpowered souls is helping to ruin pvp, and discourage it as a whole.

    If you double healing, however, the warrior war/lib whatever thingy would be out of hand. You have to fix its pvp healing correctly, or your doubling its broken heals/shields. It would be too easy for it to keep everyone up because its heals would be super broken if you also lowered dps by 35%. So yes, lower dps overall (totally agree with that), fix outlier abilities (threshers maw, Rift Burst, and a few others), fix lib/warchanter heals, whichever ones are getting through the pvp nerf (and look at its shields to see if they are correctly nerfed), then a blanket heal increase.

    Most of the outlier abilities are easy to spot. Rift Meter shows what's doing a crazy amount of output. Rift burst sits at around 40-50% of a RB's overall dps. Threshers Maw the same, or more. Was the same with farseer 60% output was one ability. Looking at these kind of outliers might help the community as a whole, and also teach some people to hit more then one button to be a pvp god. Too many now confuse being overgeared and at a large advantage over others as skill, and seem to balk at any talk such as this, which makes sense since they're running around with a 2019 Mustang while most everyone else has a 2000 Honda. One has a ton more inherent power then the other.

    If anything, I'd like to see a list of abilities not properly nerfed in pvp. That would be a good start to simply alert the dev it needs fixed. Pvp nerfs are huge, and having something not nerfed correctly makes it super powerful.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 10-20-2019 at 01:04 AM.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Flashmemory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy1212 View Post
    A simple start would be double healing, and reduce damage by 35% and begin an aggressive fine turning of skills starting with threshesrmaw, and rift burst
    This is a terrible suggestion. Warrior healing at the moment is broken.. Ask yourself why you don't see much warriors playing it. Simple.. they have a dumb down dps spec that requires 0 skill to play. If all warriors learned to play healing well healing would seem Overpowered. Two primalist farseers in Whitefalls pulling 11-13K each and making their team of 11-15 feel immortal is still possible btw. If you want healing to work bring another healer with you into warfronts that can heal and you WILL see that it works. Just make sure that you bring all the consumables and stuff that increases TTK.. In my opinion Warrior may need to be turned down, farseer and chloro/keeper are okay. Preserver and frostkeeper are better for healing carriers. Puri is good stone carrier as well. Rogue healing is more like a support healer which is okay for its crappy healing since it buffs the raid.. its not too bad as bard/phys.. Healing doesn't need to be doubled. And if you want to double healing then bring another healer.

    Want to fix.. healing then make it more difficult than it already is for primalist and warrior and mm to perform damage. Range specs should have a more complicated rotation.. Full melee should be more simplified. Partial melee should be less complex to use than full range.. Right now you have classes where their partial range, full range spec are so simple to use that these players are NOT using their healing souls making healing feel weak. It takes a bit of skill to heal properly.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 10-20-2019 at 09:36 AM.

  15. #15
    Shield of Telara
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    Farseer had insane overhealing so it didn't really get nerf as much as most think. They are still decent healers. Thread of Fate now is mostly useless which was probably the biggest impact to their survival however you can stil chain it with preserver and shifting when you hold a stone to get extra points in.

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