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Thread: good thing we nerfed primalist healing

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizbo View Post
    Wish I knew how to get the gif to appear right....someone school me plz.
    https://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l...hkoo1_500.gifv
    Spoiler!

    Seriously, that is a lot of damage to try to heal through.. they didn't have a chance..
    ta-hee hee@ gif and yep
    10.7.19 *Out of the daze. Into something new.* - Rift is too far gone.-

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sails View Post
    Ik of multiboxing to complete events and farming but what's mb feeding and how's it done?
    Posted about a month ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p5VGeJ_Fw4

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizbo View Post
    Wish I knew how to get the gif to appear right....someone school me plz.
    https://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l...hkoo1_500.gifv
    Spoiler!

    Seriously, that is a lot of damage to try to heal through.. they didn't have a chance..
    You are kidding right? Farseers were able to do 30K+ HPS at that time pre bolstered. Not even hitting level 70 yet(in 15v15 like in whitefalls).

    The date of that warfront is old and isn't reflective of the current state of healing or damage in PvP. It is difficult to explain but I will try and explain what they did in laymans terms to DPS. Let us say there are 3 levels of killing power. At that time you could only achieve the first level of Killing Power with certain specs. Let us say BD and Thresher and Para were at level 1 and the most commonly used. Every other DPS was laughed at by healers at the time. The rest weren't even close or uncommon. What they did was buff damage up to a point that made more souls get to level 1 in killing power so even though right now these same specs are probably at a level 2 or 3 more specs are at level 1 and 2 which is all you really need ATM to achieve good killing power and to be competitive for those KBs even against level 2 and 3 killing power specs.

    Now that there are more souls with level 1 or 2 killing power a level 3 BD has a ton of competition and is more in danger of being instantly ripped apart for playing pure melee by a number of level 1 and 2 specs. With the reduced healing they are not easily pocketed healed and have little uptime in melee. At that time a pocket healed BD from a 34K+ HPS farseer was unstoppable. Pocket healed BD can still be powerful with healers today but far more challenging for most healers and BD. They are still useful but you need a strong healer.. like warchanter to keep them up vs. good group. You can still stack HB+ hundreds with multiple BDs which is the only big problem with them at the moment.

    Healing isn't too bad with many classes at all. Healers who are complaining are just unrealistic. It is entirely possible for even a sent to hit 10K+ HPS in warfronts maybe more with healing consumables, Farseer is still around 14K+, even more with consumables, some mage AE/ST are 13K+ as well with consumables. Bard/Phys is around 9k+ which is decent for the raid buffs it brings. Full phys could use a buff. Preserver and full FK is around 10K and are good at holding stones, Puri as well can be awesome at stone holding. Full Phys is probably the only healing soul that needs a tiny buff. Sent, Cleric healing issues are not entirely Healing problem but the frequency and QoL problems. They don't play well because less reactive to damage and tons of buff maintaining and mana consuming. It is extremely complicated procedure to balance and correct. In my opinion Farseer is still quite strong.. maybe even too strong for an AE soul. And healers who are complaining don't realize how powerful rez is in PvP. Bringing a player who is top damage back from the dead is a massive advantage in PvP.

    The meta should be that a single healer should shruggle greatly if they are in charge of keeping 7-14 other players alive especially if those players use squishy specs. That devs should aim for a practical setup and so should players. A practical setup would be say 2 tanks, 3 healers, a support heal and 9 dps on each side. A 5v5 should be at least 1 healer with a few good DPS specs with self sustainability not squishy DPS. A support or even a tank may be useful if its flags match etc. Squishing DPS should use all of their utility to keep them alive.. ports, pull ins, leap back etc. Range DPS shouldn't be favorable 100% of the time. There should be warfronts where melee is more favorable because of tight spaces and zerging is less favorable.

    Average DPS from whoever is playing PvP at the moment in NA is like 4k-6K. A few healers on the otherside will increase that average for a few geared players over the top to 9-13Kish. Not burst but sustained. Burst is where the problem is with some classes. It is too easy to deliver from range specs(including Melee abilities that turn into range.) There is no easy fix for this since it isn't only 1 spec for those classes. Thresher maw IS not the only bursty spec for primalist, neither is Rift Burst RB, or Hellfire MM, BD etc. They have others. Warlock seems powerful right now but most users do not use pots, or panacea.. Actually that is pretty messed up to mages that they have so many counters to DoTs including cleanse soul, same with inquistor with double interrupts on burst from AI while others are doing instant burst far more often and on demand. Rogues not using Cleanse soul for locks is pure player ignorance. Other specs for Mages seem underwhelming in comparison with DPS now but they do have lots of mobility then again so does RB, Para and others. Onc you play all the souls and become versatile with all the counters you realize how inferior the cleric and mage is overall however, since the learning curve is so high for the average user they still tend to do good a lot of times if they are a well-educated Rift player who uses consumables and all their arsenal. The right player will make their deaths worth it if it means putting 100+ more points on the board while another player with gladly go 2-10 and contribute little to nothing to the win. Even players that go 20+ killing blow streak can lose that warfront if a player makes his death worth it.. Like a tank that pulls half the players off codex to recap their natural in codex. They will die but by the time they do they would have put 100 points on the board. An assassin who just doesn't engage and uses recon vial.. and recaps flags etc. A player who doesn't use or create viability with all the soul combinations should have a lesser enjoyable experience than someone who does. There are still lots of underused soul combinations that are useful or could use buffs especially in the form of QoL changes. Some classes have a lot like rogue does with multiple tank hybrids, Assassin stealth, support healing etc. Other classes feel like you are only viable if you play 1 or 2.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 10-23-2019 at 01:40 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    Willfully Obtuse wall of text
    15 v 15 whitefall happens how often.... i think the term is blue moon

    30-40k farseer.... so like all 3 of them

    you are cherry picking the very best players, in the most optimal setting, and saying OP the fact is most primalist were doing less than 20k burst so now they are doing 3-4k and getting their faces melted by multiple chained 50k-75k on command burst... i was hit the other day for 150k threshers maw crit and 3-5 seconds later could be hit again for the same amount. this is impossible for an entry level player to recover from and guess what they dont even bother to take the months of burning through hundreds even thousands of plat a week while getting grief farmed to catch up to people that have been sitting on max favor and marks for years with all frags.

    we don't expect baby fresh just hit 70 15 minutes ago to find 9 friends that did the same and go clear bos to even get a chance at gear so why do we expect it in pvp? pvp doesn't have the population to sort out entry level from have been gear to the hilt for years, and as such it has to be structured in a way that they have a chance.

    saying they just need to get good which is ultimately what your post comes across to me is counter productive. you say they should aim for queuing as pre-mades with proper group setup is never going to happen, you have to face the fact 4 out of 5 people on your team are just their for their BP dailies, are all pugs and are never going to have a proper group mix, getting them to move as a team is going to be like herding cats this is the state of pvp and it is how it should be balanced.

    perhaps gear stat values should be totaled into some sort of meta score and bolstering awards stats not as a predefined number but as .95% of the other teams meta score. I dont care how it happens but survival has to go up. This is the game we have, and it needs to be balanced on what we have not what we want.

    I used to be a valued member of my team, as a healer now I am not my gear didnt change, I didn't forget how to play, if a dps can kill a player in 3-5 1 sec gcd's at will I should be able to heal against that in the same number of gcd that is isn't true right now, I dont know the proper fix it for it, but i know what we have now is not right.

    To me a simple fix is turn up the base heal value, or turn down the burst dps or both and then adjust high and low outliers.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy1212 View Post
    15 v 15 whitefall happens how often.... i think the term is blue moon

    30-40k farseer.... so like all 3 of them

    you are cherry picking the very best players, in the most optimal setting, and saying OP the fact is most primalist were doing less than 20k burst so now they are doing 3-4k and getting their faces melted by multiple chained 50k-75k on command burst... i was hit the other day for 150k threshers maw crit and 3-5 seconds later could be hit again for the same amount. this is impossible for an entry level player to recover from and guess what they dont even bother to take the months of burning through hundreds even thousands of plat a week while getting grief farmed to catch up to people that have been sitting on max favor and marks for years with all frags.

    we don't expect baby fresh just hit 70 15 minutes ago to find 9 friends that did the same and go clear bos to even get a chance at gear so why do we expect it in pvp? pvp doesn't have the population to sort out entry level from have been gear to the hilt for years, and as such it has to be structured in a way that they have a chance.

    saying they just need to get good which is ultimately what your post comes across to me is counter productive. you say they should aim for queuing as pre-mades with proper group setup is never going to happen, you have to face the fact 4 out of 5 people on your team are just their for their BP dailies, are all pugs and are never going to have a proper group mix, getting them to move as a team is going to be like herding cats this is the state of pvp and it is how it should be balanced.

    perhaps gear stat values should be totaled into some sort of meta score and bolstering awards stats not as a predefined number but as .95% of the other teams meta score. I dont care how it happens but survival has to go up. This is the game we have, and it needs to be balanced on what we have not what we want.

    I used to be a valued member of my team, as a healer now I am not my gear didnt change, I didn't forget how to play, if a dps can kill a player in 3-5 1 sec gcd's at will I should be able to heal against that in the same number of gcd that is isn't true right now, I dont know the proper fix it for it, but i know what we have now is not right.

    To me a simple fix is turn up the base heal value, or turn down the burst dps or both and then adjust high and low outliers.
    I am not cherry picking at all. There is a thread about farseer healing going further back than this video. Point is farseer was considered vastly overpowered for awhile by the majority of PvP'ers. Pre70 farseer was still very powerful healers even after Gamigo adjusted healing globally. And top geared ones were still still pulling high 24K+-30K+ hps.

    Then they fix'ed it and now farseer is more like this.. And this image was taken from a black garden. It isn't cheated as you can see it is 8 min parse. It is recent with the date in the title. It was only 7 players on that team in that black garden to heal as well not 15. Not all used consumables like pots. I have a 17.83K one with use of pots but it would be too short of a parse to post and you will just call it cherry picking.. don't recall the team size so won't post as well.
    If you are bursted down for thresher like that I can only assume you were in Tenebrean Prison where everyone with a power up can do insane burst. Not that Thresher doesn't hit hard. Farseer is still a REALLY good healer in the right hands. Most of what you are saying is stuff other players in this thread enligtened you with but you don't realize. Glad that your mind share is changing. Healers are not totally bad. Yes, fresh 70's do get smoked in PvP. Prebolstered 70's are actually better in terms of damage/healing. The grind really does start at 70.. and it takes awhile to get back to how you were feeling bolstered both in PvE and PvP. Fragments are major issue.. maybe some generic PvE fragment bolstering for fresh 70s can help.. like rank 6 bolstering on pve fragments. The essences are an issue too however, everyone has to go through it. It takes roughly 400+ wins for my rogue and primalist. My Cleric was a horrible grind fest.. still don't have good frags, and my recently created mage is still going through the growing pains but is decent now. I did waste a ton of plat on crap fragments.. Maybe around 3K plat just for my mage to not feel useless. And warrior state of healing and dps is well known so no need to say much about them. The fact that you say they can only do 3k-4K HPS makes me wonder if you even play farseer properly.

    https://i.postimg.cc/FKGNtBgf/2019-10-22-172338.jpg
    Last edited by Aedynn; 10-23-2019 at 04:59 AM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    I am not cherry picking at all. There is a thread about farseer healing going further back than this video. Point is farseer was considered vastly overpowered for awhile by the majority of PvP'ers. Pre70 farseer was still very powerful healers even after Gamigo adjusted healing globally. And top geared ones were still still pulling high 24K+-30K+ hps.

    Then they fix'ed it and now farseer is more like this.. And this image was taken from a black garden. It isn't cheated as you can see it is 8 min parse. It is recent with the date in the title. It was only 7 players on that team in that black garden to heal as well not 15. Not all used consumables like pots. I have a 17.83K one with use of pots but it would be too short of a parse to post and you will just call it cherry picking.. don't recall the team size so won't post as well.
    If you are bursted down for thresher like that I can only assume you were in Tenebrean Prison where everyone with a power up can do insane burst. Not that Thresher doesn't hit hard. Farseer is still a REALLY good healer in the right hands. Most of what you are saying is stuff other players in this thread enligtened you with but you don't realize. Glad that your mind share is changing. Healers are not totally bad. Yes, fresh 70's do get smoked in PvP. Prebolstered 70's are actually better in terms of damage/healing. The grind really does start at 70.. and it takes awhile to get back to how you were feeling bolstered both in PvE and PvP. Fragments are major issue.. maybe some generic PvE fragment bolstering for fresh 70s can help.. like rank 6 bolstering on pve fragments. The essences are an issue too however, everyone has to go through it. It takes roughly 400+ wins for my rogue and primalist. My Cleric was a horrible grind fest.. still don't have good frags, and my recently created mage is still going through the growing pains but is decent now. I did waste a ton of plat on crap fragments.. Maybe around 3K plat just for my mage to not feel useless. And warrior state of healing and dps is well known so no need to say much about them. The fact that you say they can only do 3k-4K HPS makes me wonder if you even play farseer properly.

    https://i.postimg.cc/FKGNtBgf/2019-10-22-172338.jpg
    That parse looks familiar.
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  7. #37
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    You can look at Plusen stream as well and take parses of healing from it. I think he did like 9K+ on a sentinel and bard/phys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    You can look at Plusen stream as well and take parses of healing from it. I think he did like 9K+ on a sentinel and bard/phys.
    The person you mentioned did more damage ability for ability on the same build Ive played for years, at level 69 and into 70. His average parse was 30% higher per ability and was hitting my rogue, full pvp geared, for 58k crit codas, regularly hitting for 30-35k hits, level 69-70. I could not tell you how, since I know the build. I can hit non-geared players for ~48 k crits. Never a full pvp geared player. Ive seen him jump on his other toons and perform similarly with much higher then average numbers. This isnt about skill I know the builds and macros. Its purely about people putting out much higher numbers ability hitting the same buttons in the same order but having much better results.

    I.e. either hes had perfect frags beyond anything Ive seen or gotten to or something else is going on. Also, most the people streaming that Ive seen lately are the ones Im seeing hit numbers no one else seems to be hitting. I.e. people 3 shotting players etc..

    Id like frags seriously looked at to determine if they are a major unbalancing issue or have a better idea of whats going on if frags cant actually get people to such numbers.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    The person you mentioned did more damage ability for ability on the same build Ive played for years, at level 69 and into 70. His average parse was 30% higher per ability and was hitting my rogue, full pvp geared, for 58k crit codas, regularly hitting for 30-35k hits, level 69-70. I could not tell you how, since I know the build. I can hit non-geared players for ~48 k crits. Never a full pvp geared player. Ive seen him jump on his other toons and perform similarly with much higher then average numbers. This isnt about skill I know the builds and macros. Its purely about people putting out much higher numbers ability hitting the same buttons in the same order but having much better results.

    I.e. either hes had perfect frags beyond anything Ive seen or gotten to or something else is going on. Also, most the people streaming that Ive seen lately are the ones Im seeing hit numbers no one else seems to be hitting. I.e. people 3 shotting players etc..

    Id like frags seriously looked at to determine if they are a major unbalancing issue or have a better idea of whats going on if frags cant actually get people to such numbers.
    Its not fragments, the next time you see one these players streaming ask them to show you their pirces of gear one at a time without change it with a macro before hands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    The person you mentioned did more damage ability for ability on the same build Ive played for years, at level 69 and into 70. His average parse was 30% higher per ability and was hitting my rogue, full pvp geared, for 58k crit codas, regularly hitting for 30-35k hits, level 69-70. I could not tell you how, since I know the build. I can hit non-geared players for ~48 k crits. Never a full pvp geared player. Ive seen him jump on his other toons and perform similarly with much higher then average numbers. This isnt about skill I know the builds and macros. Its purely about people putting out much higher numbers ability hitting the same buttons in the same order but having much better results.

    I.e. either hes had perfect frags beyond anything Ive seen or gotten to or something else is going on. Also, most the people streaming that Ive seen lately are the ones Im seeing hit numbers no one else seems to be hitting. I.e. people 3 shotting players etc..

    Id like frags seriously looked at to determine if they are a major unbalancing issue or have a better idea of whats going on if frags cant actually get people to such numbers.
    He wins a lot so I would think he has great frags. From what I can tell is he may be using more stuff that you don't use like vials, crit pots, weapon stones, feast etc. It could be that something is buffing his damage more and he figured it out and not many know about it. I mean rogues have been bugged in their favor for a long time in so many ways. Either way I was talking about HPS really. I do know from first hand experience that pre 70 bolstered MM was doing a ton of damage. Some pre 70s bolstered inquisitors are too now and if you level a toon through bolstering then hit 70 your dps drops dramatically in PvE so I can assume that is just an internal problem that effects pvp more. They probably shared gear from maybe primalist or warrior etc. Like using favor on one to boost his rogue so it didn't seem like such a deficit in DPS that another fresh 70 would.. For instance, you can give your toon a PvP source sigil with using favor from another class, along with essences in it etc. So he could have started off his fresh 70 with level 15 frags and already powerful crit power. Consider the fact that you can also socket a crit power rune into offhand which gives 440+ CP I think and only rogues and warriors can do this. I don't see any crit power rune for totems. That extra 400+ CP and the boost from the shoulder rune adds up. Other things to consider outside player buffing his damage, anthem to boost damage. power-ups in warfronts etc. I've seen some players running hybrid BMs, Hybrid bards, and even a mage a few times running archon.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 10-23-2019 at 10:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    He wins a lot so I would think he has great frags. From what I can tell is he may be using more stuff that you don't use like vials, crit pots, weapon stones, feast etc. It could be that something is buffing his damage more and he figured it out and not many know about it. I mean rogues have been bugged in their favor for a long time in so many ways. Either way I was talking about HPS really. I do know from first hand experience that pre 70 bolstered MM was doing a ton of damage. Some pre 70s bolstered inquisitors are too now and if you level a toon through bolstering then hit 70 your dps drops dramatically in PvE so I can assume that is just an internal problem that effects pvp more. They probably shared gear from maybe primalist or warrior etc. Like using favor on one to boost his rogue so it didn't seem like such a deficit in DPS that another fresh 70 would.. For instance, you can give your toon a PvP source sigil with using favor from another class, along with essences in it etc. So he could have started off his fresh 70 with level 15 frags and already powerful crit power. Consider the fact that you can also socket a crit power rune into offhand which gives 440+ CP I think and only rogues and warriors can do this. I don't see any crit power rune for totems. That extra 400+ CP and the boost from the shoulder rune adds up. Other things to consider outside player buffing his damage, anthem to boost damage. power-ups in warfronts etc. I've seen some players running hybrid BMs, Hybrid bards, and even a mage a few times running archon.
    I use most power ups, minus crit pots. Not from lack of wanting just lack of playing enough to keep all my toons geared with frag costs, drinks, etc..,

    His damage was consistent across the board through many wfs. He would have had to have been bolstered at 69 to the point the bolstering was > full pvp gear full stones full (decent) frags giving my rogue ~6200 crit power utilizing atramentium whetstones both weapons plus powersurge vial. Add 35-40% damage on top of that and that was his output compared to mine, again at 69.

    This was the reason I noticed it in the first place. I already take into account outside possible influences that boost damage. I kept facing off against his rogue and finally looked at his parses and thought he was a full pvp geared max fragged player. Even then, his numbers were extremely high same build same abilities in the same order compared to mine leaving frags as the only possible difference. Then I actually got on the same team and found out he was level 69, wearing all pve gear and missing several slots.

    So if bolstering is so out of whack its greater then all basic consumables + all your pvp gear + all your frags then yea, thats pretty whacky. Oh and my toon uses 65 gear that is BIS like the shoulders so Im geared properly.

    Im mentioning his dps because my example directly ties into his output-be it hps or Dps, making me hugely skeptical as using him as a poster child for, “Hey look this is what you can do”, because you truly are cherry picking a stand alone player that, as mentioned, no one seems to know how to explain to me without a doubt how they were hitting such numbers, just take guesses. If I saw another player hitting full geared pvp players like that with the same abilities Id at least get some better understanding because I could ask how, but Ive yet to see anyone else do it.

    I built a sent on my max geared cleric (decent frags at good levels), but no wfs popped late last night for me to test. Sometime soon Ill jump on and test the hps in a wf and let you know the results. I might even build the phys tact as well. Keep in mind Ive tons of experience with both, so Ill be able to get back eventually with realistic results be they high or low. Regardless of results, Im not really seeing anyone playing heals unless they're a warrior or primalist.

    I did see the aforementioned player on his rogue marked as a healer in a couple wfs. I was surprised that someone actually marked the healer, and even more so that it was a rogue. I think maybe one other player was on him but my NB burst him down fairly easy. I actually didnt bother looking at his hps because he was easy to kill. I do know he was trying to run around pocketing someone-at least thats how it seemed with how bad his positioning was. I.e. as a very experienced healer he wasnt playing basic pvp smart bee-lining into our team chasing some warrior he was pocket healing. Perhaps it was just that one wf, but as I stated, died easily and didnt appear to be much if a heal threat to the point I didnt bother to look at his hps. Makes me surprised your mentioning his high numbers to be honest. But then again Ive seen dps numbers from him no one else can (or has yet to) emulate to me.

    Is there any other cleric or rogue hitting those numbers? Surely hes not the only one. You cant get a true median with just one player. You'd also have to look at his parse to see if his hps are coming from mostly spamming an aoe, or ST heals.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 10-24-2019 at 09:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    Is there any other cleric or rogue hitting those numbers? Surely hes not the only one. You cant get a true median with just one player. You'd also have to look at his parse to see if his hps are coming from mostly spamming an aoe, or ST heals.
    L. Harmonic Distortion healing probably. However, its mostly padded AE healing from Bard and they don't survive as well as other full healers. That would be way over the top if you can bring most the essential bard buffs and survive like a warchanter. My point is you have to be realistic. Get a few healers together and you have a decent amount of TTK for the entire team. Also, caught Shankz healing on his primalist.. he did well with farseer like 13K + There was a parse of a mage on discord... again 13K + but consider a lot of it was padded AE healing. The last time I have seen a sentinel heal in PvP before I saw him was around 8K so I think it is possible to heal more with them. Some Mage was running around healing early today was getting into the 8-9K range. Made that BD smoke the team.. but whatever. What I do notice is only a few players tend to be threats. There are a lot of players who just have terrible dps.. so healing works VERY well. When the other team get stacked with premades of powerful good gear players is when healers struggle but for the most part healing still works fine in warfronts in my opinion. Don't really know what else to say.. I don't feel like they are a handicap to me.. like I would see a rogue playing MM in Blighted or some random warrior playing champion or tempest with how crazy bursty RB is etc. and be like instant handicap. Even with a half-decent healer one who ignores healing all those handicaps and focuses on the better dps players will have a lot of sway in the match. Sometimes you just get a lot of duds on your team that are not worth healing at all and it can feel overwhelming. Like literally one of their players can solo 3 of your players because your players are so poorly geared, along with using horrible specs or horrible dps rotations.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 10-24-2019 at 12:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    His damage was consistent across the board through many wfs. He would have had to have been bolstered at 69 to the point the bolstering was > full pvp gear full stones full (decent) frags giving my rogue ~6200 crit power utilizing atramentium whetstones both weapons plus powersurge vial. Add 35-40% damage on top of that and that was his output compared to mine, again at 69.

    This was the reason I noticed it in the first place. I already take into account outside possible influences that boost damage. I kept facing off against his rogue and finally looked at his parses and thought he was a full pvp geared max fragged player. Even then, his numbers were extremely high same build same abilities in the same order compared to mine leaving frags as the only possible difference. Then I actually got on the same team and found out he was level 69, wearing all pve gear and missing several slots.

    So if bolstering is so out of whack its greater then all basic consumables + all your pvp gear + all your frags then yea, thats pretty whacky. Oh and my toon uses 65 gear that is BIS like the shoulders so Im geared properly.

    Im mentioning his dps because my example directly ties into his output-be it hps or Dps, making me hugely skeptical as using him as a poster child for, “Hey look this is what you can do”, because you truly are cherry picking a stand alone player that, as mentioned, no one seems to know how to explain to me without a doubt how they were hitting such numbers, just take guesses. If I saw another player hitting full geared pvp players like that with the same abilities Id at least get some better understanding because I could ask how, but Ive yet to see anyone else do it.
    Well damn...If kalerts and rift meter w/ consumables gets a player to this level of utility even before 70, they should be integrated into Rift's Interface. On top of that IN PVE Gear, huh?
    I actually don't think its that. I dunno what it is.

    I do find it interesting though that when the idea is mentioned of the possibility of hacking, a compromised interface or some nefarious other thing is happening to account for this kind of output, I see players trying to simp others by saying, "You don't get this output b/c you're not a good player and How about skill? Learn your class!" I can never think of a comeback when this misleading argument is issued. Especially when its used against a decently geared, spec'd and average to above average player.

    But to me its kinda like a car thief telling the cops there is no car in the garage though a faint fluid leak trails to the stolen property. You can't see the car but know its there. I don't know what they doing, but I know it ain't from a fair position nor ethical. While I'm curious what the hidden things are, I would moreso be interested in devs taking a look at compromise or something else happening between bolstering, frags, outliers or whatever. Or perhaps this will just be filed under salty players. Maybe there is no time, resource and money to really check anyway.
    Last edited by Sails; 10-25-2019 at 06:57 AM.
    10.7.19 *Out of the daze. Into something new.* - Rift is too far gone.-

  14. #44
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    L. Harmonic Distortion healing probably. However, its mostly padded AE healing from Bard and they don't survive as well as other full healers. That would be way over the top if you can bring most the essential bard buffs and survive like a warchanter. My point is you have to be realistic. Get a few healers together and you have a decent amount of TTK for the entire team. Also, caught Shankz healing on his primalist.. he did well with farseer like 13K + There was a parse of a mage on discord... again 13K + but consider a lot of it was padded AE healing. The last time I have seen a sentinel heal in PvP before I saw him was around 8K so I think it is possible to heal more with them. Some Mage was running around healing early today was getting into the 8-9K range. Made that BD smoke the team.. but whatever. What I do notice is only a few players tend to be threats. There are a lot of players who just have terrible dps.. so healing works VERY well. When the other team get stacked with premades of powerful good gear players is when healers struggle but for the most part healing still works fine in warfronts in my opinion. Don't really know what else to say.. I don't feel like they are a handicap to me.. like I would see a rogue playing MM in Blighted or some random warrior playing champion or tempest with how crazy bursty RB is etc. and be like instant handicap. Even with a half-decent healer one who ignores healing all those handicaps and focuses on the better dps players will have a lot of sway in the match. Sometimes you just get a lot of duds on your team that are not worth healing at all and it can feel overwhelming. Like literally one of their players can solo 3 of your players because your players are so poorly geared, along with using horrible specs or horrible dps rotations.
    I think the issue is actually ST throughput on heals. The 13k you see on a primalist is more than 60% AoE fluff. The real test is when you have two good dps vs. a good primalist healer and good dps. 2v2. Up until mid-NMT, the healer/dps combo would come out on top of that scenario in most cases. Now, its the opposite. Warrior is the top in that category now, with the resists and absorbs, they can survive a 2v2 match and sometimes have enough ST throughput to keep their dps alive. I won't go into the issue on Warrior healing b/c I don't understand what the underlying thing is that makes the resists so strong so I will leave them out of this convo.

    Warrior not withstanding, I have serious doubts about Sent sustaining 9K dps in a fight. In fact, I would say if you see that its because they have it paired with Warden. If you have a full 58 Sent doing that, i want to see it. It should be able to sustain 8 or 9k ST dps, but it does not. The nerf to ST heals paired with the way they killed Divine Favor in NMT in WF's makes it close to useless.

    To contrast, I pulled 7K sustained in NMT on 58 Sent - when level cap was 65. I could pull 13k on Wardinel. That can't be done now, and we are in level 70 meta for DPS. There's old videos on YouTube of folks doing this for reference.

    Same can be said of any strong ST builds across classes (again, Warrior the exception, not because of ST throughput but because of its weird survivability).

    Big numbers through AoE are useless in WF's unless you are in a Whitefall with lots of folks. ST throughput is the gauge and its low, very low - across the board for classes.

    AoE healing souls are not meant to be the go-to in WF's. ST heals should be. That is the issue. For the past three years Rift has been the exact opposite of what it was in the first 5 or 6.
    Joebuu@Greybriar
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  15. #45
    Sword of Telara
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    810

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sails View Post
    Well damn...If kalerts and rift meter w/ consumables gets a player to this level of utility even before 70, they should be integrated into Rift's Interface. On top of that IN PVE Gear, huh?
    I actually don't think its that. I dunno what it is.
    Post 70 bolstering in PVP is quite terrible compared to pre 70. That has been documented for some time.. Takes a lot of PvP gear to climb back up to those levels of HPS, DPS however, they lack survivability... More than a few rogues have documented this almost 2 years ago. Pre 70 bolstering on levels 68+ could use changes so post 70s don't feel like they invested 100s of hours for barely any difference compared to a level 68-69 with suppression experience on. They just lack HP but in some roles they are even as competitive as a fully geared 70 with decent frags.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 10-26-2019 at 02:28 AM.

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