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Thread: *Cleric Inquisitor/PvP*

  1. #16
    Ascendant Flashmemory's Avatar
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    I played a couple of MMOs that use to warn players that a certain class was for advance users. In most of those cases it just meant they were severely underpowered. Nothing wrong with warning players if a class isn't working for the average players. Heck, they sort of try to warn players about cleric.. that it was "deleted" and a "master class" which meant they were no good for average users. I think people just thought that if they played cleric to perfection it would be worth the effort but in the end they were the same as most the other MMO's where that Advance user class was just underpowered or designed to play much more terribly than the other classes. Inquisitor isn't terrible in PvP but compared to those other classes from a playable stand point it is quite ridiculous.

    Yes, I can play my cleric and hug walls like most and run away with JP as soon as any red names come within range of me. In fact, that is how I play my inquisitor and sometimes I can get top killing blows doing so but it's not like my rogue or warrior where I feel better at defending or soloing opponents. Not that inq can't do it..like to MM users etc but they can die to all sorts of other users or simply the other ones will just flee with slip away, or ports.

    In fact, it would have been more ethical of the devs to warn players about the cleric class.

    As for the IWIN DPS'ers.. like warrior and primalist. They can use a nerf but our devs are dealing with 2 years+ of a really dumb down player base when it comes to PvP. I don't think it will go too well to nerf them. They just need to make the other classes stronger and far more playable. It is going to be hard for a primalist and warrior who has IWIN spec to learn a rotation that is 4-6 buttons and you have to press a certain order to get the best burst off like the caster base classes. Most will not learn or go to whatever easy mode class is left like MM etc. I mean they can do some nerfs to Thresher or paragon but it really isn't the only spec that can rip players up. Those are just the most popular. RB, Derv/Predator, 31 vulc or hybrid vulc/pl can deal amazing burst in PvP just not as common as Thresher or Para.. and they are actually not very difficult to play either.

    Point is, a lot of the other classes have fall back specs. If devs nerf the most common ones it won't be too long until the other FOTM ones start being used. Take for instance rogues.. they are still finding new specs like NB/Bard recently. So if they do nerf Hellfire MM hybrids they will just use NB/Bard.. if they nerf BD they will just use NB/Bard and if they nerf them all they will just use assassin. They have fall back spec. Cleric best spec for pvp is far from the best of those classes and not even close to their fallbacks. Not much to fall back on.. same for mages.. They have some cool utility but the more you look into crafting warrior, rogue and primalist Vulc/PL utility for instance you realize they have cool utility too.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 10-17-2019 at 02:07 AM.

  2. #17
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    Now to officially address the question in a more fundamental answer on how I, personally, play my inq and why. I hope some of these tactics will help you.

    #1. If you don't know how to macro abilities, you really should learn, especially in this game, and as this game "advances" it only encourages more macroes, which I dislike, but anyways. This should be priority #1 if you don't/haven't done macroes yet.

    Most builds I see nowadays are 61 inq/0 sent/oracle or runeshaper for the remaining points. I highly, highly suggest 0 sent for bolt of light. With your buffs within inq tree you can spam a bolt of light for very high damage. This in turn will let you auto cast bolt of depravity's with your level 64 mastery, which you should be taking, called Faith's freedom which reduces cast-time abilities by .5 seconds for each ability you use. You could, literally, just spam bolt of light and move around and have bolt of depravity macroe'd in before it and it would cast your bolt of depravities automatically, and you'd do a lot of damage. This lets you be very mobile and still dish out good dps. It's not optimal though. If you go runeshaper route you have the buff that adds % damage to your dps which is easily macroe'd into your main attack. If you go oracle you have the buff that can auto cast insignia of blood, which does good damage, especially if your spamming bolt of light a lot. If you're having a hard time understanding what I just wrote, go read the tooltips for the aforementioned abilities and it will start to clear things up, then test them out on dummies and practice.

    Now for my build, and why I built it this way. I am 61 inq, 0 sent, 15 defiler. My playstyle and theory on how to play is a little different then most. I could care less about dps. I care about killing people with burst and suddenly. This is especially important when healers enter the game, and in fact, I can usually kill players even when other (better pure dps players who are most definitely better fragged then me) can't. I'll explain why. I'll also preface this with a lot of people don't like certain characters I play, or because I speak my thoughts and they don't like what I have to say. Recently TripC got heated because I put some focus on warrior healers which I feel are out of line with the goal of getting a lot more healers fixed to a better point, and became insulting about my low dps, stating I think 2 million or something. I honestly could care less if it was 2 million, as long as I kill players in a short period of time with burst. I actually then looked back on several screenshots and saw that I average around 5-6 mill dps on most of my characters, sometimes hitting 7 mill. Point being I have to defend myself against false accusations if my suggestions are to be taken seriously.

    Why defiler works for me: Simply put, inq is a slow buildup soul with a one button quick burst Radical Coalescense. If you start out by simply unloading on a person, sure your going to do a lot of damage, but its not usually enough to hurt them, and in today's ranged game, everyone likes to dance in the back lines, like Kronos already mentioned. This means you have to sneakily kill people. The answer is dots. Inq, as mentioned, is already a slow buildup with several debuffs and slower attacks into a quick bursty attack. With defiler, I have a LOT of dots, which don't really show on people, or people don't realize they are dotted up until about 5-6 dots are on them. This is also when dots, added together, start really ticking hard. Hit a stun, then unload on them. If your unload doesn't kill them, they run and the gadzooks number of dots will usually kill the player unless they get direct heals. If nothing else, I've caused several really good players to constantly run and drink-at least the ones that usually never push and value kb's vs deaths over winning the game and pushing forward. If you read radical coalescense, it also buffs dots by 50% while active, so its a good synergy. I can usually keep healers on the run too since I dot them up and then unload. This is my tactic, and it is very effective. It also helps me to stay in the background until I need to push. Once I kill someone, bloodthirsty procs, and I can push the line forward while healing up. This helps the team to advance in certain wf's.

    Other advice: Judicial Privelage is a speed boost, as well as a self heal. When you are being focused, or when you are being chased by a melee player, which is very much your hard counter, immediately pop this and run. You can spam bolt of light while running away, or dotting someone up. A good melee, however, has the upper hand in this current meta because they run more fast then even your speed boost, and with so many breakfrees in the game their burst is ready quicker then yours, and they also have utility like stuns and pulls. You also have a pushback, which helps on most melee. Pop JP, run, stun, and do a push back and keep running. Aim for your team and hopefully they'll die in the rush, or after they kill you.

    If you stay at maximum range constantly you will definitely improve in numbers, but like Kronos said, you're just looking for nice numbers, not to win.

    In group up fights, especially those where both sides have heals. Mount up, come in from the side, and jump into the middle of the other team and hit your aoe fear. Immediately pop JP, and run away. Can't tell you how many times this tactic has caused wins from a stalled game. Sometimes you can directly tell this is the winning tactic because each time you do it, your team pushes the other team back further, or you always win a flag point. Forcing an entire team to use up a break free helps your other teammates to land a successful stun. Stuns keep people in place and let them get focused down by your team. Killing 1-2 players in a stalled match can be the winning tactic.

    In the only screenshot I have in a wf with you Dizbo you were 4-0 and I was 24-0. Sure it was a match where our team had 107 kills and theirs 46 or so (thanks Vothlo for healing that one), but I'm directly speaking about this to show that my build and tactics were effective to top the wf. I'm not sure what your gear is, but better gear does = better play, no doubt. When you are equally geared, then, it comes down to build and tactics.

    In closer wf's inq suffers because you want some range. In spread out wf's you can really shine. Knowing this you may also want a tanky heal soul for such wf's, or learn shaman. If you don't, you'll have a harder time in the close-up wfs where melee shine. I have a quirky 1/2 dps inq 1/2 puri build I sometimes play that is tough to kill and also gets some kills while healing the team or myself for such wf's. Make a build and have fun with it.

    I could go on about more tactics, but I'll just leave these suggestions, and hopefully you'll get some improvement from them. I'm sure their are other veteran players that play inq with very good efficiency that could give you advice on their build and why it works for them.

  3. #18
    Telaran
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    Dont most most simply put BOJ after BOR so if you are mobile it cast the BOJ? and with the ramp up to get 5-6 dots on a player plus BOL plus a stun plus Radical then a nuke you are talking about a good 8-10 second build up, I dont see how you could possibly be pushing against a team that isn't nothing but BP daily players and not get nuked several times over by warr/primal or even a bofor rogue.

  4. #19
    Shield of Telara Shas's Avatar
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    Druid's Fae Mimikry still glances here and there making it unrelyable and thus unuseable. Shaman isn't that far behind atm (c.a 1.4-1.650Druid vs 1.55Shaman) while being far more flexible.

    Frequent 800k Mimikry glances don't help building trust :P

    Hierosolyma | Katane | Azuren | Jeru | Syenn | Shas | Shaslol | Shastroll

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy1212 View Post
    Dont most most simply put BOJ after BOR so if you are mobile it cast the BOJ? and with the ramp up to get 5-6 dots on a player plus BOL plus a stun plus Radical then a nuke you are talking about a good 8-10 second build up, I dont see how you could possibly be pushing against a team that isn't nothing but BP daily players and not get nuked several times over by warr/primal or even a bofor rogue.
    You apply dots from max range. Dots dont usually alert most players they are in danger until 5-6 start ticking hard. This helps to keep them from running back. Then a stun into radical C, which during radical C. You can move with them to ensure the kill. Usually the 5th dot they realize their life is suddenly going down.

    I mean were talking cleric here its not going to be a 3-5 second kill regardless your spec. Spamming BOL just alerts the player sooner they are getting focused. I was just giving a spec that sneaks in damage for kills. In normal wfs where the top OP specs like warriors get 9 k dps this spec still sits at 6-7 k dps, so its not lacking in decent umph. You just have very little target switching, which is a cleric issue in general with burst being /1 minute basically compared to a warrior /15 seconds 3-5 globaling people.

    Once bloodthirsty procs you can push and aoe fear and spam BOL. Proc another. Bloodthirsty if your lucky and keep going.

    There is a lot of things in this game that attribute to making certain souls beyond OP. While cleric is not OP at all, proccing bloodthirsty is really big. OP dps heal over a million in some wfs with high numbers for bloodthirsty, allowing them to continue globaling people. Its pretty unbalanced if you consider some healing souls barely get into 2 million heals if that while a dps can proc their way to more heals by doing dps. Basically it wasnt meant for dps to kill so fast the balance there is way out of whack. Consider the fact our OP souls kill in 3-4 globals and most souls (non OP ones) even maxed out by good players kill in 8-10 globals. The OP soul can easily take on 2-3 average players solo and come out healing up. I see it all the time the OP soul kills a lower geared player then moves on to the better player, healing up while doing so. While burst /15 seconds is so much better then /1 minute, I mention this because even a cleric can take advantage of bloodthirsty procs to help move the team forward.

    Since the soul is not OP, you have to have some kind of tactic to face OP souls. The handicap is pretty large, because its not about skill a lot of the times, just that your soul maxed out is 50% or more as effective ability for ability as the current OP souls. Lets just look at a threshers maw build or a RB build, or a paragon build, each doing way bigger hits 75% more fast then your one big hit. The amount of damage they can get ahead is pretty astounding. Hence, gotta have some tactic. Mines just dots. If you have no tactic you'll pretty much abandon cleric and not play it due to how much better other souls perform and easier at that. I dont know about you but theres not a single cleric that gets on and Im going oh geez Ill die in 5 seconds max and theres pretty much nothing you can do about it, but there are plenty of warriors running, or should I say porting about doing so. Quite a few primalists not far behind either, and a couple rogues as well. Clerics: 0.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 10-20-2019 at 12:42 AM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizbo View Post
    And here he/she is! ^

    I may ask too much - but - could you sometime share a warfront video of Euclave?
    It could encourage people to play cleric more often?
    Nice to see you and thank you very much, merci, for the updates .
    https://youtu.be/VPI0o3oqdgA

  7. #22
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    I think rune of return is assinine and shouldn't allow ppl to port 1/2 way across the map up different lvls and through walls. What so they can reposition on a melee target when playing ranged is already easy?

    The cleric can port themselves back up to library spawn for god sakes and even dmg ppl from there.

    rift pvp is just disgusting. after the buffs with it already being nearly unbearable, I really wonder if i'll be able to withstand the monumental embracing of cowardice to the 45th power. christ
    Last edited by AVGVSTVS; 12-04-2019 at 11:55 AM.

  8. #23
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    hello Konstantine

  9. #24
    Plane Touched AVGVSTVS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylaen View Post
    hello Konstantine
    Hello good sir

  10. #25
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    Its not easy to get used to the port, but I agree it lets you get to several places you should not and thus warrants some kind of restriction, but thats like several abilities.

    Overall, I still maintain the real issue is combat time. Its so fast paced almost every soul skips any ability that isnt instant. Each soul is just simpler and simpler to play because maximizing damage is about skipping half your abilities and making one macro that repeats the same abilities over and over.

    The tactics go out the door. There is no deciding what to break free from and what to suffer through. At this point all your break frees should just be automatically applied button since everyone should just have it macroed into every ability to go off when they are slamming their one-macro button. Point being so much is sacrificed for game play value and over half your abilities are best not used since they are keeping the games ttk so high. Its a shame imo. Melee suffers because of this in a great way because you get focused and die in seconds just trying to get into place. Utility suffers because of this too and makes support souls a lot less desirable, or downright a bad decision to take since dps is so powerful due to being so quick to kill people.

    Also, I cant read the abilities (they werent in English), but it looked like they were able to port and use attacks while LOS wasnt even there. Not sure if thats what I was seeing or they were channeling something onto themselves. Pretty broken if its the first one though. Watched from my phone though so Im not certain. Also saw some weird jumping. Again could have been server issues or my phone skipping (really long jumps-wasnt porting). Overall an excellent play on an inq.

  11. #26
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    Default Trying to solve the puzzle

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    port [...] but I agree it lets you get to several places you should not [...]
    Not sure what you mean here

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    [...] but it looked like they were able to port and use attacks while LOS wasnt even there.
    Pre-applied dots before RoR(Rune of Return)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    channeling something onto themselves. [...]
    Soul stream to heal or Circle of Oblivion to get stealthers I believe

    As for the jumping, Blatte does that even on EU. There was a lot of latency involved through out the vid tbh. If you want to spot a sylaen toon it's always jumping and strafing.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantomsiege View Post
    Not sure what you mean here



    Pre-applied dots before RoR(Rune of Return)



    Soul stream to heal or Circle of Oblivion to get stealthers I believe

    As for the jumping, Blatte does that even on EU. There was a lot of latency involved through out the vid tbh. If you want to spot a sylaen toon it's always jumping and strafing.
    Imo, concerning the RoR, it ports you cross levels (normally high up somewhere) where no one can follow you unless they run all the way around, which wasnt its intended (pve) function but rather an extremely powerful side effect of using it in pvp (unless this was made for pvp which I doubt since things are/were created with pve in mind). Its also a good distance more then most ports, and removes CC. Even a sin is still somewhere around if they slip away. This port is a get out of combat free card to a safe spot, or even a higher ground advantage. If it ported only same level it would still be superior to other ports that low in the trees. I doubt they could do it, but I would limit it to this in pvp. As for spots unintended you can place the port to a spot you cant actually get to physically, anymore, which is rarely used, admittedly, but Ive seen it on a few players.

    In the overall scheme of things, I dont think a ranged soul needs an overly long ranged escape. While simply annoying to see this ability used as a main feature, Im pretty sure it causes melee-centric players to rage. I.e. definitely doesnt help the melee vs ranged is too much discussion. Overall, not something Id have the dev change Id rather they work on other stuff. Just an opinion.

    As for the LOS thing I know about dots I was talking about channeling at that time. They were probably channeling a heal or oblivion like you said; I just couldnt tell.

    The jumping I was talking about was far jumping, not a port. Could have been bad lag or they could have been pushed away a couple times. Just looked weird.

    Jumped on for about ten wfs the other day and had the pleasure of playing with Blatte/against as dps and heals. One thing is for sure his self healing is super high with the port away tactic. He was normally in the top 3 killing spots. Good player.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 12-08-2019 at 12:37 PM.

  13. #28
    Champion of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    It wouldn't have become a main feature if Clerics had something else to use.

    The sorry state of affairs causes us to rely so heavily on this ability, as if we get caught by any decent player, you're dead without it. It currently takes about 3-5 seconds to kill a player. It takes 4 global cds for us to even get our dots up on a target. Therefore if we don't have the range adv. to begin with, go figure, we're dead meat, we must escape.

    If we escape, often or not, we're not in a situation to finish off the target anyway. If you end up in the situation where the cleric has positioned themselves to hit you but you can't get to them, then that's your own lack of experience.

    Forget about cc, too many break free's and immunities makes cleric cc pretty useless. Fights are too quick to play the cd game. So the only option we have to widen the gap from melee or those trying to pummel you by range is RoR or instant mount.


    Current state of affairs:

    Warriors: good survability, huge burst, multiple viable specs
    Primalists: silly dmg, all instant, all range, has the potential to 2 shot with the right buffs
    Mages: warlocks give one gcd that creates 4-5 dots that will take off 50-70% of your hp, so you must go heal up or kill them fast.
    Clerics: Burst that can be interrupted, dots that take roughly 40-50% hp with the use of 4-5 gcd's, a way to escape dire situations.

    Each have their positives and negatives, but honestly, can you really say Clerics are in a top spot?
    Last edited by Refuge; 12-19-2019 at 04:22 AM.
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