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Thread: Programs in place to prevent cheating?

  1. #1
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    Default Programs in place to prevent cheating?

    I've been playing this game for a while, and have seen some interesting things. Sure there is player skill, gear, and exploits that we all know in the game. This is not what I'm referring to. I am asking the dev(s) directly what programs we have in place to prevent hackers.

    I am asking because I'm seeing certain players (not the mass majority) performing way better then others. I'm also not talking pvp veterans. I mean players who perform well above in numbers from the pvp veterans.

    To this end, I have two conclusions. 1. Pvp Fragments are so over the top (and p2w since I can attain the best frag combinations purely through money) that they give players ridiculous numbers in pvp, or 2. Hackers exist that are upping their speed, damage, and gcd.

    If you google rift hacks, you can see actual hacks of the aforementioned problems, and that they have already existed. Even as soon as 2019.

    Game balance will never even closely be achieved if we can't fix the possible hackers, or know what the effects of frags fully have on pvp (how broken they can be). In either case, one or the other, or both, need balanced and fixed.

    What programs are in place to prevent hackers, and what is actively being done to spot it? Thank you.

    P.S. I have no plat to even buy drinks for pvp because frags eat all my plat. More plat in pvp please!

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    Frags have been nerfed through the floor compared to the start, I spent over 50k on 3 sets of frags not including a pvp set as I dont pvp. the frags bear no weight on what the skills are capable of when everyone has the same frags, if players get them to 15 with the perfect stats on them, they have taken the time to obtain the ones they needed before maxxing which is tedious but possible, I recently built my clerics tank set and to get all 11 to level 15 cost me roughly 2k plats which is actually close to how much you get from completing the Confounding Contraptions achievement

    plats arn't hard to earn if you decide to do more than pvp, this game was not designed for pvp to sustain itself and it never has done so, the closest attempt to remove pve from pvp in Rift broke pvp so horribly it died, all the pvp players left and it has suffered an irrepairable breakage that in four years has not been undone

    as for hacks the game is server based, the server side was imbedded with a code check that prevents client side data from being manipulated and sent back to it

    the few players that are out doing everyone else have discovered unfixed exploits that are a result of the many attempts to rebalance pvp back from its NMT state that has remained undiscovered or been created by the changes being made

    your best bet is to use rift meter to break down what dps/hps skills they are utilizing and to what extent, record them outperforming for anyone capable of analyzing their performance and screen shot their gear to verify what they have on and look up the stats on them in order to guestimate if there is gear going unbalanced.

    wish you the best it has been a long 4 years and with a single dev working on our game it is likely and rightfully lowest priority to new content being made in the year past expansion we are now at

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    Quote Originally Posted by Challengere View Post
    Frags have been nerfed through the floor compared to the start, I spent over 50k on 3 sets of frags not including a pvp set as I dont pvp. the frags bear no weight on what the skills are capable of when everyone has the same frags, if players get them to 15 with the perfect stats on them, they have taken the time to obtain the ones they needed before maxxing which is tedious but possible, I recently built my clerics tank set and to get all 11 to level 15 cost me roughly 2k plats which is actually close to how much you get from completing the Confounding Contraptions achievement

    plats arn't hard to earn if you decide to do more than pvp, this game was not designed for pvp to sustain itself and it never has done so, the closest attempt to remove pve from pvp in Rift broke pvp so horribly it died, all the pvp players left and it has suffered an irrepairable breakage that in four years has not been undone

    as for hacks the game is server based, the server side was imbedded with a code check that prevents client side data from being manipulated and sent back to it

    the few players that are out doing everyone else have discovered unfixed exploits that are a result of the many attempts to rebalance pvp back from its NMT state that has remained undiscovered or been created by the changes being made

    your best bet is to use rift meter to break down what dps/hps skills they are utilizing and to what extent, record them outperforming for anyone capable of analyzing their performance and screen shot their gear to verify what they have on and look up the stats on them in order to guestimate if there is gear going unbalanced.

    wish you the best it has been a long 4 years and with a single dev working on our game it is likely and rightfully lowest priority to new content being made in the year past expansion we are now at
    As mentioned I already know about a lot of the exploits. I'm actually asking about hacks. It may be they cant get through, but with how unregulated and unpoliced this game has been for years, plus also seeing hacks working in the game from the past (when they had the same program you mentioned mind you) I'm believing there are actual hacks getting through.

    I already use rift meter, which is why I'm bringing this up. I always look at numbers. I saw a pve geared player last week hitting 35 k regular coda of wraths and 60k crits, on full geared pvp players, for example. Same guy runs around in his warrior doing more dps and in a more fast time then anyone. This week the guy is full geared pvp now (in 1 week). Cant really answer you how those numbers add up, especially when you know/have been playing the same build for years. A 70% difference from your max geared decently fragged toon to theirs, running the same buffs and you start scratching your head. Its not one player though, I've seen several that appear to glitch constantly, and I believe are hacking the gcd.

    I'm not alone in this. Several good players notice this. Usually the only pushback I get are from those I already suspect of hacking.

    Although I agree, yes, there are a TON of exploits. lol.

    The Hack I saw was from 2019 that added plat, damage, speed to your toon. Someone showcased it on a low level toon, probably to hide who they really are. If it was a fake show, someone took the time on a relatively unpopular game to go out of their way to show that. You could also see the guild chat in the background, and the program looked basic, but something you could do.

    I also realize some gear does get through to pvp, which is also a problem.

    I doubt anything will be looked into, but at least I mentioned it.

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    I only play PvE but I haven't heard of any hacks yet. I also run a website that evaluates parses of raid groups and so far I haven't noticed anything unusual except for a few exploits.

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    no offence man but the game is literally DEAD both in content and population along with no support to actually do anything and you want some hacks or whatever it is nerfed so you can be the top dps in a raid that is already long gone?

    again i don't mean to rain on your parade but its over

    "it's dead jim"

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    Quote Originally Posted by andysodandy2 View Post
    no offence man but the game is literally DEAD both in content and population along with no support to actually do anything and you want some hacks or whatever it is nerfed so you can be the top dps in a raid that is already long gone?

    again i don't mean to rain on your parade but its over

    "it's dead jim"
    Oh I could care less about top dps. I believe killing in the least amount of damage possible is skill, not overall damage. I also dont raid. This is for pvp only.

    No, I just rather have fair fights, or some clarity on pvp frags if they are crazy over the top. In either case I'd like to see some balancing. Its not wrong to ask. I know they are/have been with little to no help for years.

    Also hacks nerfed isn't what I want. lol. Hacks are cheats. I want them removed. It cant hurt to ask someone to look into this. Better to ask and not get answered then to not ask at all.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 09-20-2019 at 07:00 PM.

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    Well I tip my hat to you for at least trying but there is no one left to even turn the lights off I fear.

    There is literally so so much that needs work on this game it's probably just considered too much of a capitol investment to invest into with the population left playing.

    I'm going to guess big time but during AEST's (1am srv - 4am srv) there can't be more than 40 people active. Maybe more are online and leveling but at 70 and into raids it's getting very very deathly quiet each night.

    sry i'm derailing your topic but good luck with it and hopefully someone is watching that can help.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    If you google rift hacks, you can see actual hacks of the aforementioned problems, and that they have already existed.
    I found only speedhacks which I didn't check for functionality, some are supposed to be Trojans as well. But things like that can be detected very easily on the server side. I doubt that there are currently hacks with which you can increase the damage that would have caught my attention when evaluating the DPS data of the last 2 years. Many exploits are visually hard to distinguish from hacks, for example there was a teleport exploit that allows mages to teleport from one end of the map to the other end of a map with Harbinger and Phase Step + Luminus Weapon.
    Last edited by Bamul; 09-21-2019 at 02:08 AM.

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    I play 6 accounts in pvp, most of the time i have 3 toons on both sides.

    I do this to get pvp even to spawn and get my BP dailies done (now all toons lvl 30 BP, so I not be doing that anymore).

    You are actually asking gamigo to look into something, "pvp", which is played AT PRIME time 5v5 on EU, 10v10 NA. Out of these 10-20 "pvpers" 50% are doing BP or weekly and actual 5-10 people who do pvp for pvp.

    So, let's spend dev time on something that has 10 active players?

    PS! Every MMO I played and was about to die, Darkfall series are good example, always had people hacking at the end, because nobody could give 2 f-s about it, even well known players and main account were used, because, hell it's going to be closed down anyway, so why not go and "rolfstomp" these "vets", like you, who have been exploiting some skills for years. And now you are crying

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post

    I am asking because I'm seeing certain players (not the mass majority) performing way better then others. I'm also not talking pvp veterans. I mean players who perform well above in numbers from the pvp veterans.

    To this end, I have two conclusions. 1. Pvp Fragments are so over the top (and p2w since I can attain the best frag combinations purely through money) that they give players ridiculous numbers in pvp, or 2. Hackers exist that are upping their speed, damage, and gcd.
    Well dude I'm sure you are happy you got Farseer nerfed. And I highly wonder about hacking concerns b/c those Farseers that were Op don't even play wfs anymore since the nerf. If they were hacking surely they could use their "programs" to be somewhat op. With the reduction, its hardly worth it to cover teams.

    Now could you turn up your squeaky wheel complaining about getting all the dps turned down also so other classes can be balanced? Could u be instrumental in asking devs or whoever is here, to at least eliminate some of the stupid ccs that prevent greatly reduced Farseer and other heal souls from even being viable, when activated specifically on heals. Its as if some players want heals removed period.

    Players are on wfs eating food again to make up for nerfs that weren't needed. Just b/c someone got upset that they couldn't perform as well as someone else. Its so annoying that those who know what they are doing aren't behind the wheel. B/c this should be about balance not individual or personal issues. And ofc ensuring that hacking isn't taking place. Some of us get angry that we're snatched up by a number of dps specs, that are completely out of control. Does it matter so much? I mean as long as a few can pew pew their way through things and are happy, who cares, right? Why does it always come down to effecting healers when dps has an issue?

    Could you also rile up your squeaky wheel to get them to fix the horrid team matching-making system that NEVER distributes players evenly? Something so simple, expressed by a few unhappy players can impact the game overall. There is likely some hacking issues. But I think people have to be careful what they ask for. The game is in a vulnerable state and changes can be made in the wrong direction.
    Last edited by Sails; 09-21-2019 at 07:32 AM.
    10.7.19 *Out of the daze. Into something new.* - Rift is too far gone.-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sails View Post
    Well dude I'm sure you are happy you got Farseer nerfed. And I highly wonder about hacking concerns b/c those Farseers that were Op don't even play wfs anymore since the nerf. If they were hacking surely they could use their "programs" to be somewhat op. With the reduction, its hardly worth it to cover teams.
    I am happy farseer got nerfed. About every post I posted concerning this I also stated: 1. Fix the other souls healing to be pvp nerfed, since some still have 1-2 abilities bypassing it. 2. Buff ALL heals, so that the 90% of healing souls that aren't used, are now on par, and competitive, with dps. Where did you miss all this if you were reading my posts. I literally stated it about 10 times just like this. And, again, I used to heal on 4 different souls in the different callings, to a high degree of competency. If you DID heal, you would have known an AOE ability like that should have been on a 1 or 2 minuted CD, not a /10 second bounce full heal, and you can target yourself to heal others with it too, thus negating ANY actual skill of target switching like a ST healer needs to do to be skillful and effective. AOE heals should be high, but not a full heal at all. AOE heals should be high because they hit a large number of people for a smaller amount then a ST heal. So to be in line with what I stated, overall, if they buffed heals by a blanket %, farseers "other" abiliities, those other heals, the lower 40%, would get a buff and overall they would be a good aoe healer in pvp, and their ST heal would get a boost. The other farseer heals would also then be viable.

    I also know they weren't hacking. I stated before I hit 8 million heals at level 67 on my farseer, laughed, and quit playing the unbalancing soul. The only thing one particular farseer was doing was exploiting a pve raid item.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sails View Post
    Now could you turn up your squeaky wheel complaining about getting all the dps turned down also so other classes can be balanced? Could u be instrumental in asking devs or whoever is here, to at least eliminate some of the stupid ccs that prevent greatly reduced Farseer and other heal souls from even being viable, when activated specifically on heals. Its as if some players want heals removed period.
    I've already made several posts about getting dps turned down, and was vocal about it being 100% increased and not wanting that. It was increased due to farseer. My suggestion was to fix farseer, not up dps. They decided to up dps 100%, THEN fixed farseer, which was a mistake. So to be clear, they did not do what I wanted. I would not touch CC's though. Most CC is not what it used to be, with 3 break frees viable on many souls and 4 on some if you choose. Primalist is also a very poorly, quickly created soul, just so you know, lacking utility like other main callings due to how they shortened its creation giving it very little to no utility. I can't really help that. I noticed that on my healing and on my dps when going primalist. I also find primalist the most boring calling due to this shortcoming.

    I've stated several times I want heals buffed across the board to make the healing souls that dont heal viable once more, so please don't clump me in to that. I can currently hit high 3-low 4 million heals on my cleric, going 1/2 dps 1/2 heals, ironically. Some wfs I'll actually heal, but its so lackluster I am forced to dps a lot, since its way more effective. My cleric is Shendrith. Truth be known, I used to heal for players in wfs about 70% of the time and people used to thank healers for doing so, since most people wanted to dps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sails View Post
    Players are on wfs eating food again to make up for nerfs that weren't needed. Just b/c someone got upset that they couldn't perform as well as someone else. Its so annoying that those who know what they are doing aren't behind the wheel. B/c this should be about balance not individual or personal issues. And ofc ensuring that hacking isn't taking place. Some of us get angry that we're snatched up by a number of dps specs, that are completely out of control. Does it matter so much? I mean as long as a few can pew pew their way through things and are happy, who cares, right? Why does it always come down to effecting healers when dps has an issue?
    You are mistaking this post as a complaint thread because your assuming it comes from an inadequately skilled player. All I've asked is for an answer to something that's been bugging me, in particular when I see a select few players. The premise of this post is really directed at our remaining dev, not really the players. I know how good/not good I am and on what calling. I'm with you on the fact certain callings are out of control in dps. I've made several posts on it, actually listing the abilities that were out of control. Again, didn't read most of my posts? Because I'm extremely open about this. If you want a roadmap of just about every single post I make regarding these matters I stated, in order:

    1. Reduce farseer's aoe healing on impending fate/fortune protection
    2. Reduce the other 1-2 healing abilities bypassing the pvp nerf (in anticipation for step 4)
    3. Reduce dps across the board. Now you have a baseline to fix step 4.
    4. Up ALL heals by a % to make it so a healer can heal more then a dps + a certain % which is how heals used to be, btw. CC had to be used correctly to take down good healers, and/or target switching. Some of you are wondering what target switching is I'm betting lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sails View Post
    Could you also rile up your squeaky wheel to get them to fix the horrid team matching-making system that NEVER distributes players evenly? Something so simple, expressed by a few unhappy players can impact the game overall. There is likely some hacking issues. But I think people have to be careful what they ask for. The game is in a vulnerable state and changes can be made in the wrong direction.
    If you go back maybe 2-3 years You'll find me very verbal about the ELO system, to the point of almost being rude about it. I probably got a few warnings from Ocho (spelling?) if you remember him, or were around. The ELO system, or matchmaking as you call it, was always being questioned, and had some major, major issues, to the point some players were bugged "cursed" and some players, especially those that always did premades, were in ridiculously high number ELOS and couldn't solo que due to it. I could get into a lot more, but yes, the matchmaking system is/was/and has been borked. I was a forerunner in complaining about this.

    In conclusion, I dont think you really read my posts. I took the time to reply individually because so much of what you stated was incorrect, but really. My prior posts only reiterate what I just stated above, and this thread was specifically just to get a devs attention. Who knows, maybe its an easy thing to look at. I'm not a programmer, admittedly. I'm also not looking for answers that someone is looking at raid dps, since raiders are more in it for the challenge, and a pvp player is in it to beat on others. The mindset is a little different (although can be similar). A hack would specifically not show up anyways-that being the point of a hack to not be detected. I also saw where people posted that a Rift hack DID indeed work, but had a trojan attached to it to gather passwords. Its tough looking up Rift information though, with how popular Oculus Rift is, and how overshadowed the MMO is by that googling the name is. You have to look deep to find the hack videos and Youtube videos showing people using hacks that do appear to give plat, up damage and speed.

    I also stated they may just be hacks for show, but if true, there are a couple (mind you just a couple) of players whose damage is top tier above even very, very veteran and skilled pvp players to the point I dont know how they achieve dps that high, even putting the same builds together knowing how each ability works off each other. I have to conclude, then, that either frags must get crazy good (I have decent frags on most my souls already), or there is some type of hack going on. If we had some clarity on how good frags can get, or the overall effect, then I would be more informed, and so would everyone else.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 09-21-2019 at 11:38 AM.

  12. #12
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    I dont understand?

    if you believe PVP frags are OP and that players that wear them are able to pull bigger numbers than those without.. why dont you just farm for them?

    surely this is like someone coming into a T2 raid wearing dungeon gear and expecting to pull the same DPS as a T2 geared player?

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    Quote Originally Posted by caduto View Post
    I dont understand?

    if you believe PVP frags are OP and that players that wear them are able to pull bigger numbers than those without.. why dont you just farm for them?

    surely this is like someone coming into a T2 raid wearing dungeon gear and expecting to pull the same DPS as a T2 geared player?
    if you've just dinged 70, and queue for a celestial IA, it doesnt put you in a t2 raid.
    with pvp, there is just warfronts. and the day you ding 70 (or 65, if you want to start early), you are expected to go up against the fully geared players with your leveling trash gear and empty slots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caduto View Post
    I dont understand?

    if you believe PVP frags are OP and that players that wear them are able to pull bigger numbers than those without.. why dont you just farm for them?

    surely this is like someone coming into a T2 raid wearing dungeon gear and expecting to pull the same DPS as a T2 geared player?
    The frags are not "farmable" in the term I think your meaning. Its complete random frags, with once in a blue moon you get a good lower tier one. Extremely once in a blue moon.

    I also never stated frags are OP. I've no clue. There isn't really transparency at all. I can look up weapons, gear, google builds and what not, but check out someones frags. Cant do it. I can't look at a good player, for example, and see what frags they have to what degree. If I could do that, then I could easily see the output comparing it to another like player similarly geared pushing the same abilities in the same order. Its a complete unknown save for what random frags you get. Hence why I leave my mind open that perhaps, and this is something I dont believe personally, but perhaps these players killing others in oh..3-5 global cooldowns, consistently, have these super awesome frags no one else really has.

    The reason I"m apt to not believe the frags are the issue, and it is some sort of hacking is a couple of things. 1. Game is so old hasn't had anyone policing or updating anything for anti-cheating that it is pretty illogical to think no one has managed to create a hack that gets by the ancient system. 2. Usually the same player that jumps on their warrior plays a soul and outdoes even what I'd call excellent players by a good margin, then jump on their say rogue or primalist or whatever, and they far outperform, again, even excellent players of those particular souls. Even to the point they switch souls in the same calling, and wow they're an expert in that too outperforming someone who mainly plays just that soul. I would, then, have to believe they farmed super frags for each individual calling they have, which would probably take forever and a day, or simply that they are using a hack that would work for all toons. One player in particular just dinged 70 and was hitting the same at level 69 as they are at full gear 70. I would also have to believe they had perfect frags ready for that particular soul and that the bolster for < 70 is better then a full geared pvp player with awesome frags. Unlikely, but again, not impossible.

    I will throw this out there as well. You can achieve really good frags max level with the stats you want purely with money. There is a degree of, if you pay enough, your going to be ahead of the curve for sure and its a big advantage to have really good stats above others, obviously.

    Last, I pull big numbers on some of my souls. Excellent players do as well. I'm talking about just a few people, not the mass majority of pvp veterans with which I am familiar.

    There is a Riftblade player, for example, that will do ~50k Rift burst crits, along with all the other procs, which are pretty high hitting proc numbers. Since they do this much damage, they kill most players in 3-4 globals, seconds that is. 3 Rift bursts in a row plus all the proc damage. Now I remember playing paragon for a while, and warlord was pretty popular. Then I thought RB was suddenly a "found out" super soul. Funny thing is several warriors tried it, then progressively moved back to generally paragon or warlord. Why? Because only one player was making it look OP, because no one else can hit those numbers consistently with proc damage consistently super high. I now only see one player playing RB, or whatever they choose doesnt matter their paragon numbers are higher then anyone else's as well. I then conclude they have frags no one else seems to have been able to complete, or its a hack adding damage. Same player does more dps then Nivlak on Bladedancer, just dinged 70 as well, as mentioned. Interesting stuff.

    Last, I'm wearing full pvp gear on several of my callings, with decent frags. Your example of entering fresh into a dungeon with low gear isn't my point of view. I dont know how pve is, but do frags make slight differences in pve, or HUGE differences, to the point where you have decent pve frags but someone does a lot more damage because his frags are a little better. I don't pve so I don't actually know that answer.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 09-21-2019 at 11:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    I'm not a programmer, admittedly. I'm also not looking for answers that someone is looking at raid dps, since raiders are more in it for the challenge, and a pvp player is in it to beat on others. The mindset is a little different (although can be similar). A hack would specifically not show up anyways-that being the point of a hack to not be detected. I also saw where people posted that a Rift hack DID indeed work, but had a trojan attached to it to gather passwords.
    I've been working on this topic because I originally wanted to read data directly from the client's memory for my project Rift Raid Alert (see my signature), but finally I decided to use a different method so that the project didn't violate the EULA.

    I can say that a hack that increases your damage is not an easy task. In many normal games, the damage is calculated on the client side and you have the option to change the values ​​with a hack. With Rift this is not so easy.

    The whole damage calculation is done on the server, your client sends only the information which abilities you use. So you could manipulate client side which abilities you execute but not directly the amount of damage of that ability. Of course you could manipulate the client to send abilities to the server that theoretically still have a cooldown or you could execute abilities faster than the global cooldown could normally allow. Such changes are noticeable on the server side and there will also be algorithms to check the basic plausibility of your sent information.

    Because the client structure and server structure will change slightly from time to time, you will have to adjust your hack to the changes. Hacks that may have been written years ago will probably not work these days.

    Hacks that give you a noticeable damage advantage can not hide permanently. You can assume that if there is a damage hack that can be downloaded anywhere on the internet this one was also used from someone in a raid. Of course there is also the possibility that there is an ingenious hacker who still actively plays Rift and this hack does not make public but I doubt this scenario, Rift is not poplar enough that someone would do such an effort.

    The easiest way to track down possible damage hacks is to evaluate the data. Whether the data come from PvP or PVE content does not matter at first. Fortunately, we have thousands of combatlogs thanks to the formerly active raid community. and projects like Prancing Turtle. If someone gets a clear damage advantage with a hack, that would also be noticeable in the top lists. You can assume that players have meticulously scrutinized other players in the Top 10 lists.

    I have evaluated on my website the last 2 years and of course I noticed outliers. For all outliers, however, it turned out that they creatively exploited a game mechanic or had a special group compilation that allowed them to do more damage than the competition.
    For example, there was a rogue who had exploited a bug that made it possible to repeatedly stack a 5% dmg buff from the Primalist with more than 2m st dps at Azranel.

    If you want to get the attention of a Dev you should underpin your assumptions with data. For example, you could evaluate Combatlogs of those with Advanced Combat Tracker. Or you create a new account and try out the hacks you mentioned (to protect you from malicious software best in a virtual environment) and report if they still work.

    You're absolutely right about the fragments. The fragment system has been criticized for years. Just because you can not see the fragments of other players, there should be fragments with fixed values ​​that are the same for everyone.
    Last edited by Bamul; 09-24-2019 at 07:30 AM.

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