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Thread: Way to make pvp fun again

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Post Way to make pvp fun again

    i remember when pvp was fun at lvl 65 before LEGENDARYS
    so i think if the LEGENDARYS uogrades get removed from PVP only
    it will give a chance to pvp become more balanced and fun
    pls devs, give it a chance and test, it will be great long pvp and more balanced battles without the LEGENDARYS
    Last edited by luerverton; 07-28-2019 at 06:22 PM.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    Eternals don't work in warfronts.
    Last edited by Hokhmah; 07-28-2019 at 08:52 AM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokhmah View Post
    Eternals don't work in warfronts.
    Some pve items do, however.

    Also, frags help to make certain souls out of hand. Fixing or removing frags in wfs would go a long way to blanket help fix some of the too-high dps souls.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokhmah View Post
    Eternals don't work in warfronts.
    ah i sayd the wrong, its not only eternals
    the legendarys killed pvp. like legendary upgrads that give 120% damage, etc

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by luerverton View Post
    ah i sayd the wrong, its not only eternals
    the legendarys killed pvp. like legendary upgrads that give 120% damage, etc

    Yup better now
    Legendaries killed PvE too but less than eternal there.
    Last edited by Hokhmah; 07-29-2019 at 02:09 AM.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple
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    Bring back PvP tanks. The recent changes are total b.s.

  7. #7
    Telaran Slaybae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baald View Post
    Bring back PvP tanks. The recent changes are total b.s.
    Hell.No.

    /10 char
    https://gyazo.com/ae345963423e9df4e70beb9decad7aff

  8. #8
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    put the min back into min maxing: maxing damage/healing output should come at a cost to survivability/utility/mobility. any intrinsic survivability/utility/mobility in a soul should lower its damage output.

    put the glass back into glass cannons. if players want more survivability, that should come at a cost of putting points into a tank soul. and yes, this means buffing tanks again, particularly at those low points costs, so that it does become an option that pays for the nerf to damage/healing output. likewise for utility/mobility. if your soul doesnt have it and you want it, spec for it with your off souls, but be prepared for it to come at a cost.

    put the melee back into melee specs. buffs that allow melee abilities to be used at range should come with a nerf to how much damage they do, much the same as buffs that make single target abilites into aoe abilities also apply a nerf.

    buff melee in general - survivability and damage of melee souls should be higher than ranged souls. risk vs reward. melee risks a lot more than ranged, and should be rewarded as such.

    buff tanks. they shouldnt be unkillable. but nor should they be ignorable. if you are going to nerf their survivability, then buff them in other ways to make up for it. increase tank damage so that when a dps and a tank go 1v1, the dps is at just as much risk of dying as the tank. this is called "balance", people.
    give tanks something to do in pvp besides just spam pbaoe on a flag. make the defend ability (and other abilities like it) a toggled ability with no duration limitation or cooldown. have taunts apply a significant reduction to enemy damage/healing done. have tank pulls apply a significant increase to enemy damage received from the tanks allies.
    players should be saying "we need a tank" just like they say "we need a healer".

    bring back a universal counter. this used to be the Dominator soul, but it really should be part of the tanks role in pvp. something with lots of CC, purges, damage/heal debuffs, mana drains, ect.
    universal counters are essential for limiting the impact of current FotM brokenly OP souls and maintaining overall balance in pvp.

    bring back hybrids. the very term of "FotM" should be considered a bad thing in pvp. let players play what they want, how they want, and it be viable in pvp.
    Last edited by Kronos v; 08-01-2019 at 02:08 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Indasoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    buff tanks.
    Traetor - 70 Rogue
    Dogmatic - 70 Primalist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baald View Post
    Bring back PvP tanks. The recent changes are total b.s.
    If tanks didn't have an aoe attack, and they didn't add so many break frees into the game thus nullifying most CC, I could agree with this. I realize they have to have an aoe attack, but...

    Having a well-armored, resisting body standing on a flag and nigh immune to most CC (or simply able to port out), and spamming one button aoe attacks over and over is not really my idea of pvp, or fun, or skill. The amount of time it was taking to kill a tank just meant you lost the game already if generally 2 tanks sat and spammed one button over and over. It took too long to capture a flag point, which doesn't make for a very fair or fun game.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 08-02-2019 at 11:43 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    put the min back into min maxing: maxing damage/healing output should come at a cost to survivability/utility/mobility. any intrinsic survivability/utility/mobility in a soul should lower its damage output.

    put the glass back into glass cannons. if players want more survivability, that should come at a cost of putting points into a tank soul. and yes, this means buffing tanks again, particularly at those low points costs, so that it does become an option that pays for the nerf to damage/healing output. likewise for utility/mobility. if your soul doesnt have it and you want it, spec for it with your off souls, but be prepared for it to come at a cost.

    put the melee back into melee specs. buffs that allow melee abilities to be used at range should come with a nerf to how much damage they do, much the same as buffs that make single target abilites into aoe abilities also apply a nerf.

    buff melee in general - survivability and damage of melee souls should be higher than ranged souls. risk vs reward. melee risks a lot more than ranged, and should be rewarded as such.

    buff tanks. they shouldnt be unkillable. but nor should they be ignorable. if you are going to nerf their survivability, then buff them in other ways to make up for it. increase tank damage so that when a dps and a tank go 1v1, the dps is at just as much risk of dying as the tank. this is called "balance", people.
    give tanks something to do in pvp besides just spam pbaoe on a flag. make the defend ability (and other abilities like it) a toggled ability with no duration limitation or cooldown. have taunts apply a significant reduction to enemy damage/healing done. have tank pulls apply a significant increase to enemy damage received from the tanks allies.
    players should be saying "we need a tank" just like they say "we need a healer".

    bring back a universal counter. this used to be the Dominator soul, but it really should be part of the tanks role in pvp. something with lots of CC, purges, damage/heal debuffs, mana drains, ect.
    universal counters are essential for limiting the impact of current FotM brokenly OP souls and maintaining overall balance in pvp.

    bring back hybrids. the very term of "FotM" should be considered a bad thing in pvp. let players play what they want, how they want, and it be viable in pvp.
    Fixing legendaries would go a long way to solving most of these problems, as well as lowering dps down a bit to match the lower heals. The game was ruined when it became 61 or bust for most specs. They should have put desirable upgrades in legendaries, not must-haves. The raise in power is wayyy too much. This should be fixed for both pve and pvp, because this game was sold on its hybrid build options, but has gone a long way from that with the lazy production and limited devs streamlining everything due to a lack of a work force.

    i.e. abilities at certain tiers used to do like 25% increased damage, not 100% plus this plus that, etc..

    Would love to see dominator again. Took skill to play it right, and I was not one to play it, but loved the variety it added in the game. I had my methods to fighting dominators, but loved fighting a good one. Oh boy could they kite and ruin certain souls in a wf's day. Would give reason to not use that visionary heal to get more energy back again. But...too many break frees now. Literally you should macro your break frees currently with the high dps output. You are better off just hitting it. Kill quick or be killed. I remember having to choose when to break free and not, but that's long gone. A dominator could still work if they could effect the energy on a good level once more.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 08-02-2019 at 11:52 PM.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    If tanks didn't have an aoe attack, and they didn't add so many break frees into the game thus nullifying most CC, I could agree with this. I realize they have to have an aoe attack, but...

    Having a well-armored, resisting body standing on a flag and nigh immune to most CC (or simply able to port out), and spamming one button aoe attacks over and over is not really my idea of pvp, or fun, or skill. The amount of time it was taking to kill a tank just meant you lost the game already if generally 2 tanks sat and spammed one button over and over. It took too long to capture a flag point, which doesn't make for a very fair or fun game.
    the fault here isnt the tank, though.

    when trion drove multiple stakes through the heart of pvp in NMT, one of the things they did was reduce the duration of all wf map, and increase the points gain for all objectives on all maps (caused some real issues on port scion, as the points per stone turn in was increased so much you would win the game before completing the achievement for stone turn ins in a single match).
    this was done along with dropping the TTK down to FPS levels.

    and there was much complaining.
    to be fair, there was a lot to complain about with NMT pvp.

    so, towards the end, they increased to TTK.
    but they never re-adjusted the map duration/points gain to match the longer TTK.

    this means we've been playing a longer TTK game within a shorter TTK structure.
    under these conditions, tanks rule. because the points gained by the tanks team while it sits on a flag far outweighs the time needed to kill it.
    the problem isnt that it takes too long to kill a tank (it doesnt, after the recent TTK adjustment)
    the problem is that objectives tick for too much, too quickly.

    the solution is not to nerf tanks. tanks NEED buffs - particularly to damage output - to give them more to do than just sit on a flag and spam pbaoe.

    the solution is to fix the map durations/objective ticks.


    P.S. no one tank can do everything.
    prima/cleric tanks are hard to kill, but have little or no CC and no extra breakfrees
    rogue tanks are easy to kill but have good CC and almost unlimited breakfrees.
    warrior tanks are difficult to kill, have some CC, but few extra breakfrees (from off souls, mostly)
    mage tanks are... has anyone actually seen a mage tank in pvp, recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    the fault here isnt the tank, though.

    when trion drove multiple stakes through the heart of pvp in NMT, one of the things they did was reduce the duration of all wf map, and increase the points gain for all objectives on all maps (caused some real issues on port scion, as the points per stone turn in was increased so much you would win the game before completing the achievement for stone turn ins in a single match).
    this was done along with dropping the TTK down to FPS levels.

    and there was much complaining.
    to be fair, there was a lot to complain about with NMT pvp.

    so, towards the end, they increased to TTK.
    but they never re-adjusted the map duration/points gain to match the longer TTK.

    this means we've been playing a longer TTK game within a shorter TTK structure.
    under these conditions, tanks rule. because the points gained by the tanks team while it sits on a flag far outweighs the time needed to kill it.
    the problem isnt that it takes too long to kill a tank (it doesnt, after the recent TTK adjustment)
    the problem is that objectives tick for too much, too quickly.

    the solution is not to nerf tanks. tanks NEED buffs - particularly to damage output - to give them more to do than just sit on a flag and spam pbaoe.

    the solution is to fix the map durations/objective ticks.


    P.S. no one tank can do everything.
    prima/cleric tanks are hard to kill, but have little or no CC and no extra breakfrees
    rogue tanks are easy to kill but have good CC and almost unlimited breakfrees.
    warrior tanks are difficult to kill, have some CC, but few extra breakfrees (from off souls, mostly)
    mage tanks are... has anyone actually seen a mage tank in pvp, recently?
    Fair enough. I dont disagree with your thoughts on a fix for the points earned rate. It could improve the game overall.

  14. #14
    Plane Touched AVGVSTVS's Avatar
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    Make pvp fun again? Would be nice to not have 15 auto following ranged specs randomly take you out before you even get in range to use your ranged skills? I mean that's what its come to yeap. especially in whitefail.

    if are a glutten for punishment and wanna try warrior melee some sneaky cheeky coward sits in stealth waiting for 5+ ******* mins for you to get low, clicking your drink 700+ times behind a tree. because you melee'd for 2 seconds and somehow made it out via a miracle.

    Make pvp fun again stop rewarding unintelligent and cowardice playstyle.
    Last edited by AVGVSTVS; 08-04-2019 at 02:13 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVGVSTVS View Post
    Make pvp fun again? Would be nice to not have 15 auto following ranged specs randomly take you out before you even get in range to use your ranged skills? I mean that's what its come to yeap. especially in whitefail.

    if are a glutten for punishment and wanna try warrior melee some sneaky cheeky coward sits in stealth waiting for 5+ ******* mins for you to get low, clicking your drink 700+ times behind a tree. because you melee'd for 2 seconds and somehow made it out via a miracle.

    Make pvp fun again stop rewarding unintelligent and cowardice playstyle.
    To be fair there are a limited number of ranged specs that are good. The problem is, they are overly good so played by most players. What Im saying is that ranged, as a blanket whole, doesnt need fixed, just certain souls. Its the same for melee though too. If you show me ranged MM/NB As overly powerful Ill give you pure MM, bard, sab, and ranger, none of which are played in pvp to (really) any effect when compared to NB/MM. its the same in a lot of the other callings, just 1-2 overly good ranged that need one or two abilities nerfed to balance things out.

    Same needs done with heals and melee. Also, mage dots in pvp are just silly, and any soul that one button does everything for you and tops dps is an issue. This was a design error the Trion devs ran to when they had no one to actually balance design souls anymore. They literally crammed soul improvements into 41, 61 points and legendaries vs spreading the improvements out throughout the trees. This in turn destroyed most hybrids and also turned most OP souls dps or hps from 1-2 abilities. Thats also how (most) the OP souls work in pvp. Your rotations then become more rote vs varied because to maximize output you simply want to hit that one ability over and over as much as you can.

    Riftmeter shows this. Most OP souls its one ability doing 50-60% of dps or hps. That is to say, pushing one button accounts for 50-60% of your skill. Gear only makes it worse. The design has caused this, and taken us far, far away from skillful play with attacks and counters.

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