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Thread: Reducing Farseer effectiveness on the Battlefield.

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    Default Reducing Farseer effectiveness on the Battlefield.

    1. Use CC (Crowd control)
    Things like interrupts o a long way. I mean the interrupts which have debilitating effects every class has it. Most farseer just cast Nuture all the time so interrupt them.

    2. Stop using DoT specs when you see farseer on opposite team. Playing Warlock (triple speed dots) and Reaver (spreading DoTs ) is like a death sentence to your team when facing enemy Farseer, your DoTs just make Fortunes Protection jump faster especially when jumping between dotted allies.

    3. Mark them as healer. Mark enemy Primalist as healer and DPS make sure to just start with healer mark first OP DPS will be much easier to handle then.

    Bonus Tip: the grave yard is there for a reason. That is to reduce enemy pressure. Farseer + OP DPS combo can be managed by rotating them into the graveyard Farseer being priority target. This tactic works on any combo 'Divide and conquer' simple.

    #Nerfthemwithyourkit
    Last edited by Phantomsiege; 07-22-2019 at 02:09 PM.

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    I think purge also works, at least on the version I play.

    The aim would be to purge off the impending fate buff, once that is off, if the farseer healer wasn't paying attention when they popped off their fortune protection, they won't heal much. (might be hated by fellow farseers for this, forgive me)

    However, there is always a work around, i.e monitoring your fate buff with kalerts, apply many other buffs to sort of shield that fate buff from being purged.

    Farseer are very strong and broken, but I agree Phantomsiege, with skill and aiming to reduce their effectiveness they can be dealt with, similar with bladedancers and so on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantomsiege View Post
    1. Use CC (Crowd control)
    Things like interrupts o a long way. I mean the interrupts which have debilitating effects every class has it. Most farseer just cast Nuture all the time so interrupt them.

    2. Stop using DoT specs when you see farseer on opposite team. Playing Warlock (triple speed dots) and Reaver (spreading DoTs ) is like a death sentence to your team when facing enemy Farseer, your DoTs just make Fortunes Protection jump faster especially when jumping between dotted allies.

    3. Mark them as healer. Mark enemy Primalist as healer and DPS make sure to just start with healer mark first OP DPS will be much easier to handle then.

    Bonus Tip: the grave yard is there for a reason. That is to reduce enemy pressure. Farseer + OP DPS combo can be managed by rotating them into the graveyard Farseer being priority target. This tactic works on any combo 'Divide and conquer' simple.

    #Nerfthemwithyourkit
    All these suggestions are the same for how to take down a healer, in general. Save for the dont do dots, which makes the farseer even that much more ridiculously overpowered. The real issue is the heals are ridiculous.

    Exasperating the issue is that its an aoe heal. In past times you could target switch once a healer was focused on healing himself or someone going down. Now, he heals himself full and everyone else at the same time. Its a grossly overpowered ability.

    And no, debuffing does nothing Ive tried. Chances are you wont debuff impending fate. You have a 10% chance to be as exact as I can, if you debuff every time your debuff is up. Even if you get it, they will full heal everyone within another 10 seconds and still have oh crap buttons.

    How about we ask in threads for them to fix the heal bugs getting through that are not intended, because its like a cheat getting through. To put it in perspective, I handicap you, you, you, and you 90%, but not you.

    Most unbalancing class currently is farseer by a longshot, and its skill level is bottom level easy; pushing two buttons.

    Ive said it before, my farseer did 8 million heals at lvl 67, accounting for about 5 of their team members. One class should not be = to 5 other players, or more if I had gear.

    All the heals need pvp nerfed, then re-evaluatef. Your never going to fix anything when the job was half-arsed done in the first place. Not all heals are created equal it seems.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 07-22-2019 at 03:23 PM.

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    At this point a single farseer can destroy an entire WF if one team gets one and one doesn't. I've purged, stunned, silenced, etc.

    The best option here is to nerf Impending Fate to 100%.

    EDIT: Also, I have near 1,000 WFs healing as a farseer.
    Last edited by Indasoth; 07-22-2019 at 03:56 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    All these suggestions are the same for how to take down a healer, in general. Save for the dont do dots, which makes the farseer even that much more ridiculously overpowered. The real issue is the heals are ridiculous.
    Exactly treat them like a healer because they heal. I don't dispute the heals are OK at best, but nothing that can't be handled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    Exasperating the issue is that its an aoe heal. In past times you could target switch once a healer was focused on healing himself or someone going down. Now, he heals himself full and everyone else at the same time. Its a grossly overpowered ability.
    There is potions and items accessible to everyone else. During the first few minutes not focusing a Farseer will just be a waste of dps burst especially if it's already low. Then what I notice usually happen is that allies just come out of spawn individually when they failed as a group to neutralise the support the enemy dps is getting from the heals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    And no, debuffing does nothing Ive tried. Chances are you wont debuff impending fate. You have a 10% chance to be as exact as I can, if you debuff every time your debuff is up. Even if you get it, they will full heal everyone within another 10 seconds and still have oh crap buttons.
    Purging is for the Thread of Fate buff, not for Impending fate if you intend to do it. Most Primalist have Impending fate macroed. The Farseer play is usually rotating between Delayed and Impending. So the are constantly debugging and rebuffing themselves anyway. But by doing this Thread of Fate is closer to the front.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    How about we ask in threads for them to fix the heal bugs getting through that are not intended, because its like a cheat getting through. To put it in perspective, I handicap you, you, you, and you 90%, but not you.
    Not sure about its bugged nature, but I'd rather have an OP healer than none at all across the classes. Makes taking them down even the more sweeter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    Most unbalancing class currently is farseer by a longshot, and its skill level is bottom level easy; pushing two buttons.
    Trust me when I say this. Most Farseer you see are third rate and are barely scratching the surface sustaining 20k+ heals is just half. I've seen the highest heal Prima on EU (won't mention the name cuz I'm no snitch) sustain 60k+ for 2mins dropping off to 35k+ 10mins. I myself have no idea how they do it yet because Soul Shroud was doing the same heals as Fortunes Protection. Haven't seen them in a while when I'm on but will take a screen shot next time. I always study them but still got no clue. All I know is he spams Essense Strike and hard casts Spiritual guidance. The play style is different from all the other Farseer specs I've seen. Hardly ever casts Nurture and no Cultivate.

    However, I suspect it's linked to how Primalist can do 5mil+ mentioned by Hokhmah, similar to how warchanters can stack their eternal in some abilities.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    Ive said it before, my farseer did 8 million heals at lvl 67, accounting for about 5 of their team members. One class should not be = to 5 other players, or more if I had gear.
    Warchanter, Frost keeper, Phystact can achieve this easily no bugs included, 8 million isn't much. In terms of numbers a sub 70 char from what I see, is almost 3/4 of a fully geared 70 with decent frags as long as you have your gear slots filled. There's no point going to lvl 70 because it's more efficient to lvl through pvp until you get the favor to fill your gear slots again. But taking fragments into account going to level 70 fast will be might be worthwhile since you don't get caches below level 70

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    All the heals need pvp nerfed, then re-evaluatef. Your never going to fix anything when the job was half-arsed done in the first place. Not all heals are created equal it seems.
    This is true. Also no brain is wired the same as well, but is that a bad thing?
    Last edited by Phantomsiege; 07-22-2019 at 11:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indasoth View Post
    At this point a single farseer can destroy an entire WF if one team gets one and one doesn't. I've purged, stunned, silenced, etc.
    Honestly, a group that let's one Farseer do this to them deserved to get owned. Stop playing solo, it only take two to netraulise a Farseer. If a whole team cannot manage that, then you deserve to lose after acting as fodder. As mentioned before, the first few minutes are important. Everyone has heal items available, targeting anything other than support heals is a waste, especially if you don't have support of your own.
    Last edited by Phantomsiege; 07-22-2019 at 11:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantomsiege View Post
    Honestly, a group that let's one Farseer do this to them deserved to get owned. Stop playing solo, it only take two to netraulise a Farseer. If a whole team cannot manage that, then you deserve to lose after acting as fodder. As mentioned before, the first few minutes are important. Everyone has heal items available, targeting anything other than support heals is a waste, especially if you don't have support of your own.
    Guess you missed the part where I said I have over 1,000 WFs as a FS, huh? I'm one of the players making the WFs worse. There are a few that are *near* unkillable.

    Either way, the devs have stated that Farseer is going to see some healing changes on the PTS later this week. Hopefully this helps the situation.
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    Sorry Phantom, but I disagree with almost every defense you have for the farseer. Ive played enough, and have competency enough, to be unbiased in pointing out major game issues. The fact you wrote a “how to” on dealing with one specific soul in one specific calling points out that its overly overpowered in and of itself.

    Im normally the one marking healers, calling it out in raid warning, and gunning for them utilizing CC, purges, and burst along with pulls. It is only effective if your lucky enough to have several other team members focus them down.

    ...and even if you do, most of your team dies to their dps while you focused one healer, leaving their whole team still their and several of yours rezzing. By the time your guys get back, so does the other Farseer. Its a battle of attrition you'll lose easily.

    Your forgetting, I have a primalist. Ive topped heals on several callings in the past, and, if I wanted, I could become another nightmare farseer, but Im too fair-minded to play such a blatantly broken spec and actually refuse to heal on them after I saw what broken heals I could do.

    Im also not sure where you get your thoughts on gear from, but gear maxed out from pre 70 comparison is about a 80-90% improvement or more in most cases, especially when crit maxxed. My threshers maw did around 40k crit pre 70, and with some small 70 gear Im doing 50-60 crits. Max geared players with the same builds hit 100k threshers maw. Factually, thats over 100% improvement from pre 70 to max, not a 25% improvement (your 3/4) example. Im just saying, your way off. I could give more actual number examples if needed or jump on my warrior and just show you.

    The only thing that makes a game balanced when one team has a farseer is if the other team has a farseer. There is no other soul you can say that about-not even close. Also, you mentioned really high hitting number other healers, but no most cant get even close to that. Ive seen a token few with crazy maxxed gear and frags get high numbers, but not comparable to the farseer.

    Youve also a farseer whose played tons of wfs telling you its too powerful...

    Edit: I think most people should download Rifmeter and check it out. I really dont understand how someone who can see actual output numbers, and also see that one button did 60% of the heals that are in the ten million or more category is not super unbalancing.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 07-23-2019 at 05:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    Sorry Phantom, but I disagree with almost every defense you have for the farseer. Ive played enough, and have competency enough, to be unbiased in pointing out major game issues. The fact you wrote a “how to” on dealing with one specific soul in one specific calling points out that its overly overpowered in and of itself.
    I'm not defending farseer. I'm not saying you are biased at all, farseer is a cut above the rest. I'm saying it can be managed quite easily with the right tactics. It's neglegence that makes it dominate the field. Hence, #Nerfthemwithyourkit

    I always see people say "I could be OP with said OP soul if I want to, but I just don' t cause I got morals", /sigh. I extremely doubt anyone who says this I would definitely want to see this, show me first and I'll believe you. It might be OP but that doesn't make everyone playing an OP/broken spec OP, just only pull better numbers than their other average specs.

    I I don't know which how geared you were pre 70 as prima but those numbers are quite low for a TM spec. 90k TM is very much attainable pre lvl 70 no question, if you have all you slots filled including fragments so they get bolstered especially if that gear has runes and orbs. This is the same for Warrior (Paragon, Warlord, Riftblade) , Rogue (Assassin, Nightblade, Bladedancer, MM probable I hardly play range in pvp) , Mage (Harbinger only spec I play) and Cleric (Shaman, Druid when played right), all can even dps a min of sustained 10k (St No padding with ae) within pvp throughout the duration of a match pre lvl 70, you are actually more useful at lvl 68/69 than lvl 70, this is the best time to farm favor and get your equipment. The only thing that will hold you back pre lvl 70 is HP, but if you are careful using Los and knowing when to engage its easy to compete pre lvl 70.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indasoth View Post
    Guess you missed the part where I said I have over 1,000 WFs as a FS, huh? I'm one of the players making the WFs worse. There are a few that are *near* unkillable.

    Either way, the devs have stated that Farseer is going to see some healing changes on the PTS later this week. Hopefully this helps the situation.
    Then I find it difficult to understand that you have purged, stunned and debilitated yourself so that your enemies without a Farseer can win, as you mentioned before.

    On the other hand, let's say while you where on another toon, you tried to shutdown a Farseer and failed. Then your claim of 1000s of wfs holds no value, telling me that you don't understand your own main class to be able counter it (assuming Prima is your main). I mean wouldn't playing 1000s of wfs in a spec make you an expert in knowing to best counter it?

    And don't give me the because it's OP and cannot be countered, that's just true if the it was spammable. You mean to tell me in 10secs you fail our of 6 chances to make something happen?

    If anything blame match making not being unable to counter an opponent. When solo queuing, if the is OP healer there should OP dps to counter it simple. When in premades, you just chose you team poorly if you get rekt
    Last edited by Phantomsiege; 07-24-2019 at 12:34 PM.

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    This thread seems oddly familiar, I think there was a similar thread maybe a year or 2 ago .

    When you are asking for a farseer healing nerf, keep in mind prima heal is basically the only relevant healing spec left in game, that could still cop with the current dps output. Nerfing it blindly will just cause even more problems than it fixes.

    Right now, there are quite a few top notch dps-es that can take out 50-60% hp of a whole enemy team in one CD , that's with the primas healing. Take out the heal, most players except tanks will not survive long enough to do anything, let along having any fun.

    Like someone had mentioned before, prima healers are not unkillable, it's just that some are harder to kill than others. Pfqueen and Rumple basically can last like a raid boss . Maybe it's the gear they spent time acquiring, maybe it's the spec they came up with, who knows? But with teamwork , even those raidboss-like prima healers die. Just the other day, in a blighted wf Rumple died 8 times,

    Again, just like someone had mentioned before, killing prima healer is just the same as taking out any other healer:it can be done; it requires team work. Someone throwing a stun at the prima at 80% hp and give him/her immunity is not gonna be as effective as someone throwing a stun at that same target at say 30% hp.

    Unless a 3rd factor like the old CC souls are introduced back into the game, there will never be true balance between damage and heal output. Blindly nerfing farseer, all those summer pvp players that are flooding the wfs will disappear after a couple games up against the seasoned heavy dps dealers, they simply won't live long enough to have any fun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantomsiege View Post
    I'm not defending farseer. I'm not saying you are biased at all, farseer is a cut above the rest. I'm saying it can be managed quite easily with the right tactics. It's neglegence that makes it dominate the field. Hence, #Nerfthemwithyourkit

    I always see people say "I could be OP with said OP soul if I want to, but I just don' t cause I got morals", /sigh. I extremely doubt anyone who says this I would definitely want to see this, show me first and I'll believe you. It might be OP but that doesn't make everyone playing an OP/broken spec OP, just only pull better numbers than their other average specs.

    I I don't know which how geared you were pre 70 as prima but those numbers are quite low for a TM spec. 90k TM is very much attainable pre lvl 70 no question, if you have all you slots filled including fragments so they get bolstered especially if that gear has runes and orbs. This is the same for Warrior (Paragon, Warlord, Riftblade) , Rogue (Assassin, Nightblade, Bladedancer, MM probable I hardly play range in pvp) , Mage (Harbinger only spec I play) and Cleric (Shaman, Druid when played right), all can even dps a min of sustained 10k (St No padding with ae) within pvp throughout the duration of a match pre lvl 70, you are actually more useful at lvl 68/69 than lvl 70, this is the best time to farm favor and get your equipment. The only thing that will hold you back pre lvl 70 is HP, but if you are careful using Los and knowing when to engage its easy to compete pre lvl 70.
    Lol sorry this is too funny. I cannot debate with this much silliness. Lol sorry
    Last edited by Wrastion; 07-24-2019 at 11:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koldir View Post
    This thread seems oddly familiar, I think there was a similar thread maybe a year or 2 ago .

    When you are asking for a farseer healing nerf, keep in mind prima heal is basically the only relevant healing spec left in game, that could still cop with the current dps output. Nerfing it blindly will just cause even more problems than it fixes.

    Right now, there are quite a few top notch dps-es that can take out 50-60% hp of a whole enemy team in one CD , that's with the primas healing. Take out the heal, most players except tanks will not survive long enough to do anything, let along having any fun.

    Like someone had mentioned before, prima healers are not unkillable, it's just that some are harder to kill than others. Pfqueen and Rumple basically can last like a raid boss . Maybe it's the gear they spent time acquiring, maybe it's the spec they came up with, who knows? But with teamwork , even those raidboss-like prima healers die. Just the other day, in a blighted wf Rumple died 8 times,

    Again, just like someone had mentioned before, killing prima healer is just the same as taking out any other healer:it can be done; it requires team work. Someone throwing a stun at the prima at 80% hp and give him/her immunity is not gonna be as effective as someone throwing a stun at that same target at say 30% hp.

    Unless a 3rd factor like the old CC souls are introduced back into the game, there will never be true balance between damage and heal output. Blindly nerfing farseer, all those summer pvp players that are flooding the wfs will disappear after a couple games up against the seasoned heavy dps dealers, they simply won't live long enough to have any fun.
    No one asked for a blind nerf. A nerf is needed for one of its heals (just one). Sure, improve its other heals a bit. Its exactly what needs done to all the other healing souls anyways, so its needed for balance. If you dont fix this, you cant move on to fixing dps and upping other souls heals, so its an order that needs done.

    Fighting to keep an unbalanced soul to counter other unbalanced souls is as good as saying I dont actually fight for balance; more or less someone who enjoys unbalanced overpowered souls in general.

    Also, Im as good as a near expert in dpsing down healers since Ive played every single one competently and know how to gun them down. It still needs fixed. This isnt an ignorance response because I dont know how to for example. I am literally the guy marking healers and making their life difficult. The 1st thing I do in wfs is mark the healers and do a raid warning. So...your giving advice on how to take a healer out to a guy whose doing that. Nevertheless, its aoe heal needs fixed. Up its ST heals. There, fair and fixed.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 07-25-2019 at 12:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    Lol sorry this is too funny. I cannot debate with this much silliness. Lol sorry
    Glad you're amused. You are entitles to you own opinion after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    I'm as good as a near expert in dpsing down healers since Ive played every single one competently and know how to gun them down. It still needs fixed. This isnt an ignorance response because I dont know how to for example.
    Playing every soul doesn't make you an expert I'm afraid. Calling Farseer near unkillable is a testament to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    I am literally the guy marking healers and making their life difficult.
    Again, that doesn't seem to be the case. Since they are still prancing around so much that you call them nearly unkillable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    The 1st thing I do in wfs is mark the healers and do a raid warning. So...your giving advice on how to take a healer out to a guy whose doing that. Nevertheless, its aoe heal needs fixed. Up its ST heals. There, fair and fixed.
    Doing /rw just annoys people stop it, the normal WF chat is ok to distribute information. Make a premade if you find it hard to make people listen, /rw being the #1 reason why, it will make your life a lot easier and less of a headache for everyone else.

    I posted to give the general population tips of increasing their effectiveness on the Battlefield against Farseer because its possible instead of complaining like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    No one asked for a blind nerf. A nerf is needed for one of its heals (just one). Sure, improve its other heals a bit. Its exactly what needs done to all the other healing souls anyways, so its needed for balance. If you dont fix this, you cant move on to fixing dps and upping other souls heals, so its an order that needs done.
    Impending fate doesn't need nerfing. Imbalance in the game already allows kb ninjas too much leeway at dominating wfs. It'd be nice if this thread spoke of balance in general as it pertains to several broken souls and other match issues.

    There are several things that come to mind, for me. 1. Op souls still need to be placed on an even keel while output for other souls is increased so players can competitively play what they want. 2. For a geared. participating player/s that ends up on teams mostly comprised of newbs, or uncoordinated geared players, a lack of healing can be a nightmare. That player will be the most effective and likely need the most heals. Newbs will need heals also. FP can jump around to support those who are closest to and working with that player to get an objective met. If they are taking tons of dmg, especially if undergeared, a few people with substantial FP can make that match a win. 3. While newbs are progressing, they need to be evenly distributed on teams so both teams bear the weight of making up for what they lack until geared. Too often, they're lumped on one side with a geared chart topper (Fernand effect). This means lots of them will go up in smoke at the start of matches. Or constant kb until they can return from respawn to map to contribute. If too many bottom out, too often that team loses. This can also happen on teams where a few are into the match and others are uninvolved/afk. The other thing is that, newb strategy is a bit delayed as players have to peep who needs to be cc'd to control their opponents. The healer on this team will often be cc'd by geared more experienced players. An additional 400% FP + I, can pump heals to fill spots so this kind of team has a shot at competing. A skilled Farseer can make a difference in this match up. If these kind of matches were less frequent, there wouldn't be a need to bring it up.

    I could agree with a nerf if ALL things were on par. Match-making errors, Class imbalance with broken, OP souls and a lack of support roles make wfs really bad as it currently stands. Lessening Farseer abilities while these issues yet remain would make wfs less inviting. I say until more issues are fixed, UP all healing specs to act with Farseer's output.
    Last edited by Akashasgrip; 07-25-2019 at 11:09 AM.

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