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Thread: How does the pvp matchmaking system work?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarleaf View Post
    That's awesome! I wanna go see that NPC. See, that's so great, and it gives a connection to the creators of the game and the people who play. Little jokes that can be shared, to close the gap.

    While it is a funny thing, it wasn't so much of a joke because he had to convince people something was wrong with his ELO. They finally listened and actually looked into him specifically after tons of people saying the ELO wasn't working correctly, and they kept saying it was working as intended.

    In this game ELO is a funny thing to me because of several factors.

    1. Some people only want to pvp, as in kill other players, and forego objectives, so they lose a lot but define success by K-D ratio and don't care.

    2. Some people go the opposite and only ever play objective-based characters and define winning as objective based-even to the point of they are successful if they held one point and never fought a single soul in...pvp.

    3. The PVP quests actually encourage players to sometimes do either 1 or 2, depending which quest they haven't finished yet, so it creates a disparity of goal interests due to the nature of what you need to get done over the other.

    4. Your ELO will be lower then 50% (the goal I guess) due to ties. You could be 300-300 and if you have ties, the ties lower your %. Several of my toons are in this category.

    5. OP souls stay OP for years-this usually inflates ELO scores if your playing primarily a class that is overly OP, especially if its a healing class that's OP for a long time. You can just keep playing that class and your ELO by default will be a high win percentage. This is more a testament of just how OP some souls are and what an advantage it is to play one. It's more of a sad nod acknowledging the huge balance issues in the game, if anything. i.e if I wanted a toon with high ELO I"d just play my farseer and heal all the time, since, by default, I'm going to throw out huge numbers that push my team (whether or not my team is good or bad or average) further towards a win as a whole then, say, if I just went and did half that amount as a dps. Realistic looking numbers as an example: 12 million + heals as a farseer vs. 4 million single target dps as X class. Sure I"ve seen higher numbers, but I'm not cherry picking, say, a max geared primalist hitting a broken thresher's maw every 3 buttons to do 100k damage, or a BD spamming his AOE bypassing most armor and critting all the time.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 07-19-2019 at 07:10 AM.

  2. #17
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarleaf View Post
    .. One thing I want to try is having a druid pet on attack mode next to a flag. I think it will attack you if you sneak up and stun me and try to take the flag..
    the pet will attack if its set to aggressive. however, pets do not have breakfrees, and i have multiple stuns. it may keep me off the flag long enough for help to arrive. definitely worth using, but not totally insurmountable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarleaf View Post
    One more question. I was talking to someone who says that because of the matching system, he's rarely on the same team as you, Sorry. What would this mean for me, I wonder? If we end up on the same team, does that imply I haven't been doing too well in PvP? And if we're on opposing teams, that means I'm in a winning streak? Just thinking out loud, here.
    doesnt mean much at all. me being on a team is far from making the outcome a certainty, and most players can be shuffled around between teams without upsetting the apple cart.
    high Elo players are another matter.
    if only a single high Elo player is in the queue, then they get stuck with the lowest Elo players on their team (the Fernand effect).
    if only two high Elo players are in the queue, then the system cannot put them on the same team without causing massive Elo imbalance between the two teams, so they will rarely be on the same team.
    the more high Elo players are in the queue, the more the system can mix them around, though premades and duo queued players will again make balancing more difficult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    i havent played on my primalist much at all for a long while now, and when i did it was mostly as a tank. while prima is OP right now, i find it lacking in fun factor in comparison to rogue or warrior, and it has effectively zero interesting hybrid options.
    They went lazy when they made primalist. It's like they didn't even finish it properly. Less points, less abilities, more bang for your buck with the less abilities, but also a lot less utility. Then again, who needs much utility when you have players doing 100k threshers maws hitting two buttons for optimum dps output? I'm totally ungeared but I throw out 60-70k threshers maws, more dps then any other soul throws out for one ability, and one that you can get back to quite easily.

    And thus it's lacking in fun except if you get your kicks abusing blatantly overpowered souls. Attacking at range with the best single target dps in game, and sometimes getting free dps buff procs resulting in 100k+ hits (nearly 50% of a new pvp'ers life) isn't exactly skill. Most primalists can do this when they get max geared too.

    I tried building hybrid primalists but the problem they made was the 21 point ability that lets you range everything AND makes it 1 gcd cast pretty much makes most builds take this. Threshers maw also has the most output that taking anything else is a huge handicap. I've tried, but end up reverting to the two-button wonder and shake my head at its output.

  4. #19
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    Warriors can hit for over 100K from range too.. it is not just one ability its multiple in a couple secs. I think they have the best burst but it just is not up as frequently. All the martial classes are so face roll to use. Harb is great but you have to sort of master the class. Cleric has the most problems. Most of the class souls have no competitive value at all.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 07-21-2019 at 04:45 AM.

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    Huh. Wait... I thought I remembered hearing that shamans have the best single-target dps? Or is it at least in 2nd place?
    70 Cleric Sarleaf@Hailol, BoS tank, PvP healer
    alts: Frazzleweed@Hailol (lvl 24 mage); Sarifiber@Typhiria (lvl 7 warrior)
    Rift PvP videos: https://tinyurl.com/y2dl6oym

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    Ascendant Challengere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarleaf View Post
    Are these only on Seastone? Where would one pick up such quests?
    the main ones were for the Torvan Order dailies that made you flag pvp to do them, think all the ones that asked you to kill players in open world, complete quests while on SS and for sure the dilies for pvp ZEs are gone last I checked

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    Warriors can hit for over 100K from range too.. it is not just one ability its multiple in a couple secs. I think they have the best burst but it just is not up as frequently. All the martial classes are so face roll to use. Harb is great but you have to sort of master the class. Cleric has the most problems. Most of the class souls have no competitive value at all.
    I have a pretty good geared warrior. I agree they can burst too well. The problem is critting constantly with 10 or so rising waterfalls thats adding up the damage in the background. A lot of time rising waterfall is a warriors top damaging ability. A quick death also needs lowered imo for its power. Its also limited by range, and even when ranged its on a timer. Primas have the upper hand on the ranged constant high burst, and its not a limited timed window.

    I used to love my cleric, but only get on to do the dailies. Most souls feel so lackluster. I wish they'd fix the heals on them mostly though

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    I used to love my cleric, but only get on to do the dailies. Most souls feel so lackluster. I wish they'd fix the heals on them mostly though
    What do people mean when they say fix? What do you want to see? I'm curious about this topic because I have a cleric.
    70 Cleric Sarleaf@Hailol, BoS tank, PvP healer
    alts: Frazzleweed@Hailol (lvl 24 mage); Sarifiber@Typhiria (lvl 7 warrior)
    Rift PvP videos: https://tinyurl.com/y2dl6oym

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarleaf View Post
    What do people mean when they say fix? What do you want to see? I'm curious about this topic because I have a cleric.
    Hmm, I think when people say fix with regards to cleric healing, they probably refer to the sentinel role, though i maybe wrong.

    In the past it use to be a decent and very fun single target heal spec in pvp (i use to play it), but now it got really nerfed. The other viable current spec now for healing cleric is the on you are probably using now based on the mastery faith freedom or something like that.

    Thanks for saving me in pvp by the way, those warriors didn't want me alive XD
    Last edited by Crysnowbe; 07-21-2019 at 04:41 PM.
    Kneel (I'm joking, just let me look down on you)

    Doflamingo@Deepwood (pve), Shankz@Deepwood (pve, pvp sometimes), Kaido@Deepwood (pvp)

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarleaf View Post
    What do people mean when they say fix? What do you want to see? I'm curious about this topic because I have a cleric.
    For those of us that have all callings, and have played for a while and pretty much know all the souls, the cleric souls all feel lackluster when compared to the ease-of-output from several souls on the other callings.

    The inq and shaman are what I'd consider average souls. Cleric has no outstanding soul, while the other callings usually have several. Even mage I can name 3 souls that are wonderful in pvp when geared. Cleric...eh. You might have a max geared inq or shaman beat on lesser-geared players, but that's due to gear and output from this. Pit them against a good geared player on another calling, and they are definitely to be found lacking.

    I know you heal a lot, so just to give you an example, I used to top heals a lot on my cleric in prior times. I wouldn't even attempt it now, they suck so bad. So cleric has 2 average dps souls, and 0 good heal souls. After they nerfed the phoenix rez exploit, cleric can't even get high heal numbers. Even with the exploit they were severely lacking compare to any of the new souls which are using non-pvp nerfed heals, which is another issue.

    If you haven't you should look up how to download riftmeter, an addon, and you can then see actual number outputs for dps and heals both. If you don't want to bother, I'll give you some average numbers I would see. If you healed against a primalist, you might end up with 2 million heals now that phoenix is fixed. They would end up with 10-12 million heals. A warrior healing could do maybe 8-9 million if max geared. So yes, the average primalist healer is approximately 5-6sh X's better at healing then the best cleric. Oh and they push two buttons to do this. Yes....two buttons. Their main aoe heal which is like a super ST heal built into an aoe heal (lets get real thats what it is) accounts for 55-60% of all of a farseer's heals in wf's, on average. Sometimes more. Its one button. So to put it more realistically, one farseer button pushed /10 seconds is > the best cleric healer in game x3. That's super sad.

    Some inq do well, but again, they are just usually beating on lesser geared players. And scourge dots spread around can make them seem like they have decent dps, but most players in pvp know its about burst and ST dps that matters most. I've seen a rare 2-3 shaman that do well, but again, compared to the other best souls in the other callings, its lackluster.

    Basically clerics need a major overhaul, which is why people refer to cleric with the term "fix"

    Edit: I was doing 2-3 million heals when lvl 65 was the max on my cleric. That's how sad cleric healing is now, if you know what happens with level gains and power adjustment for most games. The heals should have jumped to around 6-8 million for top players. 4 dps usually couldn't take me down, unless it was really good players, in which case 2 could do it with great effort. Keep in mind, however, that I would have to focus all of my single target heals on myself, and smart dps would target switch to take down other players. The current farseer is healing himself, and his whole team with that broken fortune protections and impending fate ability, which is why its so so broken.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 07-22-2019 at 12:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crysnowbe View Post
    Hmm, I think when people say fix with regards to cleric healing, they probably refer to the sentinel role, though i maybe wrong.

    In the past it use to be a decent and very fun single target heal spec in pvp (i use to play it), but now it got really nerfed. The other viable current spec now for healing cleric is the on you are probably using now based on the mastery faith freedom or something like that.

    Thanks for saving me in pvp by the way, those warriors didn't want me alive XD
    I gotta try out Sentinel one more time. I don't think I gave it a fair chance.

    I would just like to say that my mind is completely blown right now to see that Doflamingo is the same person as Shankz !!! (looking at your signature)

    And dude, wow, you're an unstoppable healer as Shankz!

    Here is my spec, btw, and I don't mind sharing. I can even help clerics out with macros, if they're interested in using it.
    https://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#...laaAaw8/p|TKXg
    Edit again: Nevermind about the macros part. I'm not quite happy with my spam macro, yet. Needs experimenting and tweaking. Also, it doesn't have an AOE damage to toss out at the shadows so the only way to sniff out rogues is to run around and accidentally run into them or keep an ear out for the rogue stealth sound.
    Last edited by Sarleaf; 07-22-2019 at 06:24 AM.
    70 Cleric Sarleaf@Hailol, BoS tank, PvP healer
    alts: Frazzleweed@Hailol (lvl 24 mage); Sarifiber@Typhiria (lvl 7 warrior)
    Rift PvP videos: https://tinyurl.com/y2dl6oym

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    For those of us that have all callings, and have played for a while and pretty much know all the souls, the cleric souls all feel lackluster when compared to the ease-of-output from several souls on the other callings. .
    Interesting perspective. Very important, imo. Yeah I've only played the cleric, really, so I can't really compare it like people who've been playing through the expansions. I've just kind of thought this is how it is, and if I'm failing, I need to play better.

    Then again, I looked at the PvP leaderboards for healing and I noticed that I no longer have to scroll down forever to find my name. I DO feel like I'm competing with the big boys. I'm up the with 'em towards the top end of the top 50. Esp. with the new spec that includes HoTs that fill in the gaps and add to healing.

    But then, yeah maybe it would be nice to see more classes rotating around in the top 50 healer spots, instead of such a sea of blue. IDK, I can sympathize with everyone's points here in this forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    Edit: I was doing 2-3 million heals when lvl 65 was the max on my cleric. That's how sad cleric healing is now, if you know what happens with level gains and power adjustment for most games. The heals should have jumped to around 6-8 million for top players. 4 dps usually couldn't take me down, unless it was really good players, in which case 2 could do it with great effort. Keep in mind, however, that I would have to focus all of my single target heals on myself, and smart dps would target switch to take down other players. The current farseer is healing himself, and his whole team with that broken fortune protections and impending fate ability, which is why its so so broken.
    Yeah, when you put it this way, that does seem a little odd. Maybe Rift makes primalists more powerful, to get people to pay money for it? The designers gotta make money and pay rent somehow.
    70 Cleric Sarleaf@Hailol, BoS tank, PvP healer
    alts: Frazzleweed@Hailol (lvl 24 mage); Sarifiber@Typhiria (lvl 7 warrior)
    Rift PvP videos: https://tinyurl.com/y2dl6oym

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarleaf View Post
    Interesting perspective. Very important, imo. Yeah I've only played the cleric, really, so I can't really compare it like people who've been playing through the expansions. I've just kind of thought this is how it is, and if I'm failing, I need to play better.

    Then again, I looked at the PvP leaderboards for healing and I noticed that I no longer have to scroll down forever to find my name. I DO feel like I'm competing with the big boys. I'm up the with 'em towards the top end of the top 50. Esp. with the new spec that includes HoTs that fill in the gaps and add to healing.

    But then, yeah maybe it would be nice to see more classes rotating around in the top 50 healer spots, instead of such a sea of blue. IDK, I can sympathize with everyone's points here in this forum.


    Yeah, when you put it this way, that does seem a little odd. Maybe Rift makes primalists more powerful, to get people to pay money for it? The designers gotta make money and pay rent somehow.

    Leaderboards just show total healing. I could jump on my primalist and heal 1 game for 10 million heals, which would take you 5-6 games to match. We'd be even on the leaderboards, but in reality my average heals would be 10 million and yours 2 million. You took 5 wfs to do what I did in one. If I stopped healing, you'd over run me in leaderboards if you kept healing. Its not a board for effectiveness, but rather who spends a lot of time playing Rift.

    The equation you want is X average output for X number of wf’s played. Rift does not have this. It has a running tally of total number of output. Quite literally most the people higher then you on the leaderboards played a lot less wfs and still beat your total effort. Im not being mean, and this has nothing to do with your skill, but moreso the max output of your calling, cleric. Sorry if this bursts your bubble concerning leaderboards.

    Trying sentinel wont help. Purifier is better. Sentinel was better before and was a top notch heal spec. Its what I used to play with warden sub. No cleric healing souls are any good if you compare them to all the other pure healing souls.

    Primalists are OP because no one was around to balance them or apply the nerfs all other heals in pvp receive. They are effectively doing something that shouldnt be by game definitions of heal nerfs for pvp, namely bypassing heal rules for pvp.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 07-22-2019 at 06:04 PM.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    Leaderboards just show total healing. I could jump on my primalist and heal 1 game for 10 million heals, which would take you 5-6 games to match. We'd be even on the leaderboards, but in reality my average heals would be 10 million and yours 2 million. You took 5 wfs to do what I did in one. If I stopped healing, you'd over run me in leaderboards if you kept healing. Its not a board for effectiveness, but rather who spends a lot of time playing Rift.

    The equation you want is X average output for X number of wf’s played. Rift does not have this. It has a running tally of total number of output. Quite literally most the people higher then you on the leaderboards played a lot less wfs and still beat your total effort. Im not being mean, and this has nothing to do with your skill, but moreso the max output of your calling, cleric. Sorry if this bursts your bubble concerning leaderboards.

    Trying sentinel wont help. Purifier is better. Sentinel was better before and was a top notch heal spec. Its what I used to play with warden sub. No cleric healing souls are any good if you compare them to all the other pure healing souls.

    Primalists are OP because no one was around to balance them or apply the nerfs all other heals in pvp receive. They are effectively doing something that shouldnt be by game definitions of heal nerfs for pvp, namely bypassing heal rules for pvp.
    Ohhhhh. I see, I see. I have been playing quite a bit of PvP, come to think of it.

    Well crap. I thought I was doing well. :-/

    This does burst my bubble. Boo. Sad panda.

    Yeah you were exactly correct—that was the equation I wanted.

    That's kind of sad. I just want a place to feel useful, wanted and valued.

    /emo Leo mode activated

    *goes away to sulk in corner for a little bit*


    Well, maybe I can just be a support healer. I can also provide comic relief as a goofy noob.
    70 Cleric Sarleaf@Hailol, BoS tank, PvP healer
    alts: Frazzleweed@Hailol (lvl 24 mage); Sarifiber@Typhiria (lvl 7 warrior)
    Rift PvP videos: https://tinyurl.com/y2dl6oym

  15. #30
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    /emo mode deactivated

    Ok I'm back!

    You're on, mother****ers! I accept this challenge! I shall still heal my teammates!

    /raises sword

    (or staff or whatever)
    70 Cleric Sarleaf@Hailol, BoS tank, PvP healer
    alts: Frazzleweed@Hailol (lvl 24 mage); Sarifiber@Typhiria (lvl 7 warrior)
    Rift PvP videos: https://tinyurl.com/y2dl6oym

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