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Thread: the ability to AFK in stealth for an entire wf if a rogue so choses...

  1. #1
    Plane Touched AVGVSTVS's Avatar
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    Default the ability to AFK in stealth for an entire wf if a rogue so choses...

    I don't see how this fits in a competitive pvp atmosphere. I've seen this multiple times where a rogue sits in stealth with 0's across the board for 5+ mins into a wf.while some just AFK The ability to grief a single target of their choosing is far beyond any other class. having the power to sit in stealth for an *indefinite* amount of time waiting for someone of their choice to either get low on life or outnumbered isn't correct. I'd say that any stealth should at least be put on a duration of a certain amount of time. I also don't understand how makes sense even from objectives balancing standpoint. There has to be some sort of combat timing buffer zone where they can't stagnate in stealth for however long they want. changing perma stealth to duration to force them to use it more strategically. Giving a more random approach to people trying to either drink out of combat or get ganked alone.
    Last edited by AVGVSTVS; 07-14-2019 at 09:30 AM.

  2. #2
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    you would have more chances highlighting the game streaming or doing youtube videos to attract new players to this game so Rift can be a bit bigger and have the change that you ask than asking that directly when you already know Gamingo can only modify some percentage of some abilities of the game

    better fu uck a soil balls, fa ap a bit or drink some beer
    Last edited by sylaen; 07-14-2019 at 12:05 PM.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    current anti-afk mechanics:

    1. if not actively participating, favor gain is reduced to zero after a short amount of time
    (not that effective. once a player is geared, there really isnt that much to spend favor on. favor is essentially a meaningless currency these days, with most regular pvpers sitting at the favor cap)

    2. if no activity for a few minutes, player is kicked from the match with a 15 minute deserter debuff denying them the ability to re-queue for the duration.
    (easily avoided by occasional self buffing and minor movement. as such, it is only truly effective if the player has actually walked away from their computer, while being completely ineffective if the player is present but intent on being a non-participating leach)

    3. if 50% of the team marks a player as afk - right click on the players name in raid frames, select "mark as afk" - the player receives a visible debuff that lasts for one minute. at the end of that minute, the player is kicked from the match and receives a 1 hour deserter debuff denying them the ability to re-queue for the duration. this debuff does NOT continue to count down while logged out.
    (getting 50% of a team to do anything in pvp is an exercise in herding cats that most often takes the entire remaining duration of the match to accomplish. the larger the team, the more difficult this becomes, and the more effort you need to put into getting it done, essentially taking you partially or wholly out of the fight as well. this alone renders this mechanic mostly ineffective and even potentially counter productive. the visible debuff additionally gives the leacher a generous amount of time to run into the nearest fight, hit one ability and cancel the debuff before dying and going back to leaching, requiring you to start the process all over again. slightly satisfying on the rare occasion it is effective, as the leach often feels personally offended that their antisocial behavior was mildly punished and will rage long and loud in crossevents for the entire duration of the deserter debuff or even longer, providing entertainment for all and garnering no sympathy for themselves.)
    Last edited by Kronos v; 07-14-2019 at 12:11 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Flashmemory's Avatar
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    There are classes that don't need to drink much. Like warrior, primalist and especially cleric. They can just switch roles out of combat and instant pop their heal. Other classes like mage and rogue can spec for speed and mobility. They don't have that luxury lol. There are countless times that I decided to just switch roles instead of waste plat on drinks and unintentionally got a couple of players chasing me down in my tank spec and giving us the middle of domination rr and winning the game. It is quite funny actually.. which is why I think tanks are more or less balanced unlike healers that behave like tanks making dps feel more tankier than tanks which is something that should never be allowed.

    Primalist Force Apathy in the proper thresher maw spec is what most people should adopt since it can't be cleansed and keeps players from going into stealth for long periods of time. And it can be spammed on an entire party and lasting 1 min on each target. It is stupidly powerful against stealth users. You can also pop stealth as a farseer in a huge radius with a buff switch. Cab passive AE pops stealth. As for the maps.. I do agree some maps favor stealth users and that is why I have for years ask that recon vial detect stealth on the minimap so at least you can see if you are about to get ganked or if someone is camping a capture point. They disabled domination maps and things were kind of good for a while but then they added them back and now the advantage for that class came back.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 07-14-2019 at 02:48 PM.

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    Plane Touched AVGVSTVS's Avatar
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    A rogue slip away skips the out of combat mechanic. So in short after sitting watching you in stealth if they do fail they have slip away, a free out of combat ability to drink all before their target is even able to get out of combat.

    the tendancy to use this abilty on targets of their choosing is disproportionate its too much control over a single player. it's common for a rogue to sit in a wf with 0's across the board waiting for mins at a time for a target to either get low or numbered. it does nothing for team play and it does pvp no favors.

    its disproportionate and unethical.

    I propose that perma stealth be change to a duration of 2 or so mins. force them to change it up and join the rest of the team.

    this was an issue in CQ and WPVP dailies. Imagine not just one doing this. maybe 2 or 3 right? it creates an unstable gank squad and the damage the have while having stealth isnt low lets just say that.
    Last edited by AVGVSTVS; 07-14-2019 at 04:40 PM.

  6. #6
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    I am mostly 99% positive one of the rogues in NA exploits regularly. I have watched them stealth mid combat and still have slip away less than a minute later. I am not sure how they do it. I feel this person may be the reason why stealth feels really strong. Maybe they lag themselves out to come back out of combat or something like that. It is just stupid to hack in this game but I have witness it twice from the same person.

    Unless there is some bug that forces rogues to leave combat outside of using slip it seems like they are using some way to trick the game that they are not in combat to be able to stealth in combat. It is obvious to another rogue they are using some exploit because slip away has a long two-minute cd and you shouldn't be able to use it that often. I wonder if gamigo will ever look into players hacking. It is obvious. I won't say names but you probably know who it is. They are from deepwood. If you really care enough I suggest you record and send to Gamigo Devs.

    I think a majority of hacks may be like this and more and more people figuring it out because of the crashes in ghar station. For instance, some times during ghar station I can be attacking a target and spamming my buttons and no attack animations occur like the target is locked from getting damage..not immune to damage because it will show me still attacking. It feels more like the server doesn't recognize I have a target selected yet it's selected on my screen and I am right in front of the target on my end. Since I play most classes I know by their buffs what souls they are using and what they are capable of doing... Another thing I can think of is some sort of perk from an item that may be able to pull the player out of combat or put them in some sort of limbo state for a few seconds. I can't really think of anything though.. Imagine attacking a farseer who can use some sort of exploit like that. They will never die.

    The other thing also you may confuse Harb stealth users with rogue. Harb can do a version of in combat stealth every 30secs. I think it is more annoying to deal with because they have good burst from range. At least with assassin they have to constantly be charging and on top of you to kill you not with harb. Paragon burst is insane and they have all the good utility inside their spec. If you play warrior maybe try a full 61 warlord. Not many play it anymore but it was good vs. assassins for a long time. Burning Blood + Killing Field + Retaliation and massive hits.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 07-14-2019 at 11:34 PM.

  7. #7
    Plane Touched AVGVSTVS's Avatar
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    So far prophetic chaps as helped me 1 time against the numerous perma stealth cowards that basically sit hiding waiting for me all wf every wf.

    how they work is if they are in the 3m range it will show them for a like a sec within that time you have to hit them or thats it.

    rogues can slip away which the skill itself was just as effective and powerful as a bugged touch of life. if they fail on the gank the slip away gives them this complete out of combat so they come back full life because they are able to drink.

    touch of life was one thing but don't tell me that being able to sit for an indefinite amount of time in stealth, fail on the gank only to be able to re stealth at full life on a target that is stuck in combat is proportionate. if they kill the target after slipping away the cycle just repeats and they can do this as long and as many times as they want.
    If they are forced to slip away after a failure that's it they should be stuck in combat as well. it's more control over a single target than any class has or ever had in the game.

    with touch of life and nptd gone that's its a wrap you can barely defend your self against this. I'm the only one that thinks this way either.

    Ofc now i got about 5 or so rogues griefing only me and that's fine I get it im outspoken,
    I'm sure as hell not staying silent because changes made to the balance of pvp causes it to be even harder to fight against someone hiding for mins at a time till I get low on life or outnumbered.

    Do i think they will fix this no I don't but it's out there and i said it.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVGVSTVS View Post
    So far prophetic chaps as helped me 1 time against the numerous perma stealth cowards that basically sit hiding waiting for me all wf every wf.


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  9. #9
    Ascendant Indasoth's Avatar
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    There's only one rogue that sits in stealth most matches and he/she shall remain nameless.

    The vast majority of rogues use it strategically as the game intends. There are lots of ways to pull a rogue out of stealth or make them run away after they take damage - if they want to stay stealthed.
    Traetor - 70 Rogue
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  10. #10
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indasoth View Post
    There's only one rogue that sits in stealth most matches and he/she shall remain nameless.
    there is more than just the one, but the others dont play quite so often any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indasoth View Post
    The vast majority of rogues use it strategically as the game intends. There are lots of ways to pull a rogue out of stealth or make them run away after they take damage - if they want to stay stealthed.
    Augustus is firmly opposed to personally taking any kind of pro-active approach that might require him to perform some action, alter his play style, or otherwise take into account the possible presence of stealthed rogues in pvp.
    this is something i've tried to talk to him about in game, with no success.

    I do often agree with some of the points he raises, and i have said in the past that perma stealth is an incredibly powerful ability in pvp. but i disagree that it should be removed altogether. rather i think the overall balance of the soul that contains this feature should reflect just how potent perma stealth truly is in pvp.
    Last edited by Kronos v; 07-22-2019 at 01:47 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched AVGVSTVS's Avatar
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    I've been meaning to address you comment you made. "firmly opposed to taking any action changing style" this is patently false.

    for you to say this is mind-boggling because ive versed you in your numerous episodes of extended pve objective stealthing. you know this if anyone has popped people out of stealth its me more per capita guaranteed. so if you know i take all the measures possible what's the point of you trying to sku peoples perception of me here?

    You can't justify the ability to stealth for indefinite amount of time fail a gank, slip away and go back to unlimited stealth.

    at the very least after a slip away that stealth should be on a duration. Justify this, justify this in this new TTK while people are dying left and right with 75K threshers maw. A rogue has a %100 uptime of safety hiding with alot of dmg to go with it.
    Last edited by AVGVSTVS; 08-09-2019 at 10:29 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVGVSTVS View Post
    and the damage the have while having stealth isnt low lets just say that.
    I'm seeing multiple rogue assassins hitting 4-5 million in wfs. This is top dps actually. The soul is overtuned, but not as glaringly so because players tend to want to re-stealth, and as you say, sit around for a while to gank. You could literally just run around like a pure melee dps (warrior as example) and do even more damage then any other soul save an aoe one. The bleeds are ridiculous, stuns galore, speed, and decent self healing for being a stealth dps soul.

    Like several other way overtuned souls, it needs brought back in line, at least in pvp. It's not the only one though. I'd love it if devs looked at the individual abilities that are causing such glaringly overtuned souls, because it usually is 1-2 abilities that are the issue.

    rogue, in general, benefits from the crit power more then any other class imo. Inherent high crit % souls will, since crit power is the best stat, and any soul that has high crit % will automatically have a huge upper hand with full crit power. Warrior also benefits from this on certain souls.

    I remember when you used to have to think about what button you hit next....TTK is too high and this game is closer to a fps game then an actual MMO-typish game.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    I am mostly 99% positive one of the rogues in NA exploits regularly. I have watched them stealth mid combat and still have slip away less than a minute later. I am not sure how they do it. I feel this person may be the reason why stealth feels really strong. Maybe they lag themselves out to come back out of combat or something like that. It is just stupid to hack in this game but I have witness it twice from the same person.

    Unless there is some bug that forces rogues to leave combat outside of using slip it seems like they are using some way to trick the game that they are not in combat to be able to stealth in combat. It is obvious to another rogue they are using some exploit because slip away has a long two-minute cd and you shouldn't be able to use it that often. I wonder if gamigo will ever look into players hacking. It is obvious. I won't say names but you probably know who it is. They are from deepwood. If you really care enough I suggest you record and send to Gamigo Devs.

    I think a majority of hacks may be like this and more and more people figuring it out because of the crashes in ghar station. For instance, some times during ghar station I can be attacking a target and spamming my buttons and no attack animations occur like the target is locked from getting damage..not immune to damage because it will show me still attacking. It feels more like the server doesn't recognize I have a target selected yet it's selected on my screen and I am right in front of the target on my end. Since I play most classes I know by their buffs what souls they are using and what they are capable of doing... Another thing I can think of is some sort of perk from an item that may be able to pull the player out of combat or put them in some sort of limbo state for a few seconds. I can't really think of anything though.. Imagine attacking a farseer who can use some sort of exploit like that. They will never die.

    The other thing also you may confuse Harb stealth users with rogue. Harb can do a version of in combat stealth every 30secs. I think it is more annoying to deal with because they have good burst from range. At least with assassin they have to constantly be charging and on top of you to kill you not with harb. Paragon burst is insane and they have all the good utility inside their spec. If you play warrior maybe try a full 61 warlord. Not many play it anymore but it was good vs. assassins for a long time. Burning Blood + Killing Field + Retaliation and massive hits.
    There are definitely game exploits, even ones I learn about recently despite playing pvp all the time.

    Kind of like after you use a stone to blow up a node in Karthan Ridge if you go into stealth the stone appears where you just blew up the node. I watched a player exploit this and win the game for my side, but I called them out for it since I hate cheating. I did a double take when they blew up the first node, but followed them and they repeated the process and I saw they stealthed right as it blew up. Anyway….crazy.

    That is to say, you better believe you have tons of exploiters...lol. This games had no "police" for forever.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 08-09-2019 at 11:13 PM.

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