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Thread: PTS-Healing Balance Adjustments

  1. #1
    Shield of Telara Dizbo's Avatar
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    Lightbulb PTS-Healing Balance Adjustments

    In Case You Missed the Announcement this is the Formal Link and where to reply to.

    For ease of reading, the PVP relevant part:
    <snip>Additionally, the patch also contains some balance adjustments to healing abilities in PvP. These adjustments are still going through internal review but additional feedback from a few actual matches is always helpful. The following abilities have had their effectiveness reduced to be consistent with other healing abilities:

    Rogue:Planar Rejuvenation Legendary Planar Rejuvenation Life Insurance Legendary Life Insurance

    Warrior:No Permission to Die Touch of Life

    Primalist: Primal Avatar: Ram Legendary Primal Avatar: Ram Thread of Fate Legendary Thread of Fate Shifting Wind Savage Excitement

    Cleric:Legendary Flash of the Phoenix Reprieve Legendary Aggressive Avarice Legendary Summon: Faerie Healer Ravaging Darkness

    Mage:Soothing Waters Reclaim Elements

    Items:Prophetic healing philter Prophetic healing potion Prophetic healing tonic Prophetic philter of restoration

    Please post your feedback here in the forums.<snip>
    Last edited by Dizbo; 06-14-2019 at 11:51 PM. Reason: added some paragraph space, correct link

  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizbo View Post
    In Case You Missed the Announcement this is the Formal Link and where to reply to.

    For ease of reading, the PVP relevant part:
    <snip>Additionally, the patch also contains some balance adjustments to healing abilities in PvP. These adjustments are still going through internal review but additional feedback from a few actual matches is always helpful. The following abilities have had their effectiveness reduced to be consistent with other healing abilities:

    Rogue:Planar Rejuvenation Legendary Planar Rejuvenation Life Insurance Legendary Life Insurance

    Warrior:No Permission to Die Touch of Life

    Primalist: Primal Avatar: Ram Legendary Primal Avatar: Ram Thread of Fate Legendary Thread of Fate Shifting Wind Savage Excitement

    Cleric:Legendary Flash of the Phoenix Reprieve Legendary Aggressive Avarice Legendary Summon: Faerie Healer Ravaging Darkness

    Mage:Soothing Waters Reclaim Elements

    Items:Prophetic healing philter Prophetic healing potion Prophetic healing tonic Prophetic philter of restoration

    Please post your feedback here in the forums.<snip>

    Crikey, are we talking complete nerfs here or some buffs? Are they trying to get rid of healing completely? (philter and potion).
    Last edited by Refuge; 06-14-2019 at 03:11 AM.
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    It seems to be Percent hp spells only here , and pots. So everything that was "broken" in the way that they aren't getting pvp healing reduction. And I guess the fix for the others healing spell will come later ?

    Primal avatar Ram was a monster of healing while giving immunity to control , as well as legendary Flash of the Phoenix which was broken as well with the 350k+ hp heal in 1 spell.

    Others fix for classes will come later, nerf of farseer and buff of other healer, at least i hope.

  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    I can understand the decision to some extent, but this is not the highest on the priority list in terms of balancing PvP. Sure, heals don't quite work as intended for some classes, but nerfing them will make some classes even more useless.

    Interesting to see Faerie Healer recieve the nerf hammer when it in fact it has it's own PvP tooltip at 3%, so it really shouldn't be included in the list and should have it's own balancing instead. If they're going to nerf it to the ground then they should at least change the tooltip to avoid the confusion.

    We'll just see how it goes when it comes, but it's clear Primalists will still dominate as their main healing abilities are not being touched. In fact, it's likely to widen the gap. Hopefully they'll follow up soon enough with further changes, but very doubtful.
    Last edited by Refuge; 06-14-2019 at 08:52 AM.
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    better wait to adjust healing balance between classes before put those changes on live. that will only give more strenght to primalist healer and we know you will not do changes to other healing classes before what? 4 month peraphs? so keep those changes in your head and wait to work on healing classes.

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    Champion of Telara Challengere's Avatar
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    I think nerfing pvp healing is a great idea, allows for more kills and lessens the amount of kill farming needed for BP

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    Shield of Telara Dizbo's Avatar
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    Default Official Link

    Hey guys, here is the official link to reply to.
    Last edited by Dizbo; 06-14-2019 at 11:50 PM. Reason: Have the Offical Link

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    Ascendant Flashmemory's Avatar
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    They are going after all my hybrid tank specs that I used vs. premades. During BP I played four classes and used hybrid tanks when I was facing premades to win a lot of matches since i don't premade. I used almost every single one of those abilities in every class I played vs. premades as a hybrid tank. Besides just going afk, leaving game instantly when premades stacked on other side it was a good option. I wonder if this dev just targeted me and exclusively nerfed every build I have on my main shard toons lol. he definitely has it in for tanks in PvP. I already know how to counter them with switching to armor pen specs and running specs with twisted major and minor buffs. Those full heal tanks getting only 20-30% life back. I would say just increase the debuff to 10-15 secs. would have fixed a lot of problems with those specs. Ohh well.. nerfs is all these devs know when it comes to balance. Sad.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 06-15-2019 at 12:03 AM.

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    Telaran Ikamuni's Avatar
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    If they plan on nerfing cleric heals they should increase its DPS to bladedancer or higher levels
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizbo View Post
    I wanted to say my opinion. I like that they are looking at things to fix, but really the farseer is the first one to fix, THEN get to the other stuff mentioned. Also, I do like that they are trying to nerf multiple heals that have needed nerfed, but without buffing overall heals, it will just make for only the farseer as a healer really. So if the intent is to nerf, then immediately up all heals, go for it. I still dont get why they cant assign the heals that are bypassing the pvp nerf, the actual nerf its supposed to get in pvp. Must be some programming thing beyond me.

    I'd also lower dps by 20-30%, or start fixing outlier abilities that cause massive dps. Also fixing fragments would help. Everyone needs crit power and that's just silly that its the all in all, and benefits certain souls WAY more then others. Fragments take already OP souls to god level and they kill players in 4 seconds, which in no world should happen even a new geared player vs. max geared. Thats one reason people DONT want to pvp, this massive power difference. I'm talking from the perspective of someone who has several toons that are not quite max geared, but dang even without full gear they hit too hard, and with everything macroed. My paragon can do some massive, quick damage. It feels fine sometimes because of OP farseers, but if you nerf them like they need to be, then we have a bunch of overpowered dps annhilating everything, which I dont want either. The game is currently so bad you just need to macro break frees and you'll kill players before any CC can really do anything to stop them, which is sad because utility that should be used in the game is almost pointless vs. hitting a dps button. Shows the skill curve needed to play the current state of the game.

    I also find it sad I look at parses and here is what I see from the OP souls: Forgive me if I get the name of the ability wrong.

    Mages: Crystalline missiles 50-60% of all their dps

    Rogues: BD is ridiculous overall, enough said. Hellfire Blades tops a lot of charts in overall dps, as does several other rogue abilities. To be honest, a max geared rogue is pretty great in most souls since overall they benefit the most from crit power since most rogues are crit based % already.

    Warriors: Rift Blade, Paragon and Warlord all need looked at. Too many macroed auto hits that stack. Warlord is probably the worst, but I've seen RB and Paragons max geared that are 4-5 globaling people consistently. Rift Burst 50% of dps? Ok. Rising waterfall hitting 10 times in one shot is a bit much, crit stacked and crit power stacked.

    Primalist: Really needs reworked, but threshers maw (50% of overall dps) is the main problem if I had to pick one ability. Also, farseers ruin most games or any semblance of balance. I'd fix them first before anything else. Farseer: The one aoe heal/10 seconds 60% of their heals...an AOE heal is the top heal in the game...just sad.

    Cleric: Nerfing any soul would just be like kicking a cripple while they are down. Clerics are the one soul that I wouldn't touch anything to nerf. I play all souls and this is by far the weakest pvp soul of all. I do inq decently well but its not up to par with dps, especially if you nerf judicial privelage to get rid of its 1v1 staying ability. Ok nerf the heal, but geez up the cleric souls overall.

    Anyways my overall two cents.

    Oh and please look at pve items in pvp. Some still get through, and are extremely powerful like that healing staff that heals when your at 30% life. A certain farseer always has it on, making them nearly impossible to kill...an auto kicked in ability. Again, no skill, just auto healed from a pve item.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 06-17-2019 at 01:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikamuni View Post
    If they plan on nerfing cleric heals they should increase its DPS to bladedancer or higher levels
    I was hit for 25k from a charge, flash of steel, from a BD. Please, don't have a whole soul doing ridiculous stuff that shouldn't be possible in pvp. Buff, yes. To BD level. LOL, nothing should be.

  12. #12
    Telaran Ikamuni's Avatar
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    I don't want cleric to be balanced. I want it to be overpowered. Maybe the dev team should consider changing cleric GCD from 1.5s to 1s while retaining the 0.5s GCD reduction from shaman and inq without lowering skill damage/scaling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikamuni View Post
    I don't want cleric to be balanced. I want it to be overpowered. Maybe the dev team should consider changing cleric GCD from 1.5s to 1s while retaining the 0.5s GCD reduction from shaman and inq without lowering skill damage/scaling.
    The discussion was about balancing things. You should start a new thread titled, I want cleric to be OP and come up with nifty ways to break the game even moreso. I'll jump in and post about how your idea is great and contributed to less players wanting to pvp and new players quit even more fast due to the new OP cleric ideas you posted. Breaking the game even more, what nifty idea for fixing things.

    Making 1/5 callings OP is a good way to alienate those 4/5 other callings, which is why pvp is broken currently. There are only so many souls really viable to play without getting frustrated. That's not sound thinking to keep players and/or introduce new players to pvp.

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    Telaran Ikamuni's Avatar
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    Making cleric a 1sec GCD is for heal balancing. Also they should fix puri and sent skill scaling in wf while they're at it.

    If other classes are currently overpowered and the devs don't wanna tone them down then a way to "balance" things out is by making the other classes "overpowered" too. And since I'm a cleric main I want cleric to get the best out of this "balancing". And I think cleric is the most balanced out of the classes. Sometimes I think the devs make cleric the baseline for everything and purposefully make other classes better than it lel
    [Faeblight]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikamuni View Post
    Making cleric a 1sec GCD is for heal balancing. Also they should fix puri and sent skill scaling in wf while they're at it.

    If other classes are currently overpowered and the devs don't wanna tone them down then a way to "balance" things out is by making the other classes "overpowered" too. And since I'm a cleric main I want cleric to get the best out of this "balancing". And I think cleric is the most balanced out of the classes. Sometimes I think the devs make cleric the baseline for everything and purposefully make other classes better than it lel
    I assume you play all the other classes. If you do you will know that in comparison cleric is a loss of hope. Inquisitor is barely viable because of the basic laws of forces. If you scale damage up to a point even the weakest force will "feel" balanced. To exaggerate the example. It wouldn't matter if you overkilled for a million damage or 5 million damage even though its 5x the damage. If the target only has 100 hit point it will die instantly.

    Even though damage is 5x times more powerful than the other they are both so powerful that the results are the same (given that both can deliver their damage at the same pace.) That is why bladedancer was much more of threat before than it is now. Even though they were buffed with the damage modifier changes the other classes killing power and potential went up as well. Mages and Clerics actually have some kills on the board. Warrior and Primalist kills went up substantially and they became competitive.

    Another way to look at it from the other side of spectrum. If you deal 101 damage to 100 hit point mob you will have 1 overkill damage vs other class who can only deal 99 damage to that mob. The difference is so minute right? 101 vs 99 but in fact the effort for the class to kill that mob is 2x as much to get a kill on a target. 2 gcd vs 1. Isn't it mind-blowing how such a huge difference can produce virtually no difference at all and how such a small difference can require double the effort?


    I would put my bets on the game being shelved before counting on them to fix clerics anytime soon. Clerics are gimped and it isn't like it use to be where we consider that classes are just nomenclature for groups of playable souls. Most of a total class is gimped not the one or two souls of each class but the majority of the class itself.

    You can't really do much anymore about cleric. There is so much evidence gathered to show that they are in terrible positions both in PvE and PvP in comparison to other classes. To cleric players with hope it is loss, and to those who still choose cleric as main they should realize that it is a guilty pleasure to keep them that way and to keep clerics hoping. There is not just one component that can fix cleric. Let us say they did bring up ST damage, for instance, to be on par with rogues or warriors. Then you have to address their survival, their ramp up to burst and many other factors of playability. Also, their cleave potential etc.

    If you really want to get changes done your best chance is to go beyond devs or even general manager. Get signed petition, learn German and personally make a phone call to some of the biggest investors in Gamigo and tell them how you feel neglected or abandoned then you will probably see something change since the orders will be coming from the top which usually doesn't play the game and will have more sympathy/empathy with a heartfelt letter and take it more personal instead of with built-up classist bias or favoritism. It may still be a long shot but the best shot you will have. Make sure to gather as much data and quotes as possible because there is actually a hefty amount of data on the forums, tons of twitch videos and youtube videos and possibly you will want to make videos showing how they messed up cleric with a timeline.. etc. Even the leaderboards can be used as a reference. Leaderboards are actually quite terrible though because it doesn't allow you to have your name appear more than once unless you switch shards. The same warrior primalist or rogue would appear 4-5x on the board if it was done right for killing blow streak and would push all the other classes out of the top 50 if they did. The people who get high killing blows are competing with the people above them not below them which if it did would show insanely how overpowered/underpowered truly are.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 06-18-2019 at 08:21 PM.

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