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Thread: Conquest?

  1. #31
    Champion of Telara McChaffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleVenus View Post
    Who cares? Nobody does. PVP and Live are dead. Accept it.
    Most of us have and are actively spending our money and playing games elsewhere.

    I just stick around to keep watching train-wreck after train-wreck.
    Last edited by McChaffe; 05-07-2018 at 12:24 PM.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by McChaffe View Post
    Except this wasn't a thing. If you were already locked to a team you were unable to enter in a group.

    Player and premade placement on teams was for the most-part random.
    This change only came toward the end of NT and actually they found a way to bypass this with queue ins from dimensions which was reported and fixed later on with 5 man queues. The type of CQ people are asking to bring back are the 20 man premade type of CQ that was highly exploited and all it would lead to is more wasted development.


    There is so many other games that are specifically developed for wide scale PvP and the technology to bring Rift into any sort of category that is side by side with these games is non existent. Not to mention there are companies that did try to do it by developing an ai that removed objects from entire zones when players showed up so they can actually be rendered correctly and in the end those same game developers found the tech took years to perfect but yielded nothing good for the game in general. They even had to sacrifice graphical designs of spells and make basic circles on the ground or those spells would crash their servers if cast en mass. It still produced massive server lag.They decided to drop support for that type of gameplay as they forseen the amount of problems it would caused so in many games that were not built for it they simply did not release that content or the ones that did found that it caused more harm.. server crashes weekly and constant player complaints. By not releasing CQ they at least give players less to complain about which is a good thing considering the amount of complaints Rift is getting as a whole. They also have a lot on the table to deal with on Prime and Live with a smaller development team. I am not saying they won't bring CQ back. I am saying that it is just a terrible idea given the state of development in Rift as of now.

    You say you are spending your money on other games. Rift is not suppose to be a wide scale PvP game. It was a knee jerk reaction to games coming out at the time but the engine is too archaic to handle it and they even introduced Archeage with intentions to be their wide scale PvP game. So yeah.. play other games with wide scale PvP in mind.

    There is no reasons to try and change a game that wasn't designed for it when they can't come close to even competing with other games that are currently on the market. I mean seriously those games have millions of players. Rift still have too low numbers on their servers that can't take advantage matchmaking since MMO's that main PvP require a very robust.. 100s of thousands if not millions of players to actually match make well. Rift doesn't have nowhere close to the numbers needed for systems they developed to even work anymore.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 05-08-2018 at 05:17 AM.

  3. #33
    Champion of Telara McChaffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    This change only came toward the end of NT and actually they found a way to bypass this with queue ins from dimensions which was reported and fixed later on with 5 man queues. The type of CQ people are asking to bring back are the 20 man premade type of CQ that was highly exploited and all it would lead to is more wasted development.
    Except it wasn't and there has never been proof that it has been heavily exploited. In-fact, quite the opposite is true when numerous players tested the queuing system with the developers and it was revealed that the system wasn't working as intended before 5 man queues were even implemented via normal queing. The queue system was entirely random and broken, it didn't work. This was proven.

    The dimension PvP bug was found out long after CQ was dead and the PvP flags for dimensions were a later addition in Storm Legion. There is no evidence that anyone knowingly abuse this bug to exploit CQ and in NMT there was no reason to bother with CQ because the rewards were trash.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    There is so many other games that are specifically developed for wide scale PvP and the technology to bring Rift into any sort of category that is side by side with these games is non existent. Not to mention there are companies that did try to do it by developing an ai that removed objects from entire zones when players showed up so they can actually be rendered correctly and in the end those same game developers found the tech took years to perfect but yielded nothing good for the game in general. They even had to sacrifice graphical designs of spells and make basic circles on the ground or those spells would crash their servers if cast en mass. It still produced massive server lag.They decided to drop support for that type of gameplay as they forseen the amount of problems it would caused so in many games that were not built for it they simply did not release that content or the ones that did found that it caused more harm.. server crashes weekly and constant player complaints. By not releasing CQ they at least give players less to complain about which is a good thing considering the amount of complaints Rift is getting as a whole. They also have a lot on the table to deal with on Prime and Live with a smaller development team. I am not saying they won't bring CQ back. I am saying that it is just a terrible idea given the state of development in Rift as of now.
    CQ and PvP in general died because no one on the Rift development team wanted to support it. I sat in a skype chat for a year with numerous developers and the majority of the issues that were brought up were either glossed over or ignored.

    Large scale PvP in Rift worked fine and CQ never caused massive server lag when it was around. You're citing issues that weren't actually problems aside from FPS for users on weaker end PCs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    You say you are spending your money on other games. Rift is not suppose to be a wide scale PvP game. It was a knee jerk reaction to games coming out at the time but the engine is too archaic to handle it and they even introduced Archeage with intentions to be their wide scale PvP game. So yeah.. play other games with wide scale PvP in mind.
    I'm playing Final Fantasy XiV, which isn't a PvP game at all nor am I interested in any other major PvP game for one reason.

    Rift's soul system made PvP in Rift extremely unique. Conquest for leads could be played like a game of chess and you could build your raids to directly counter other leaders and raids. It's an environment that can't be replicated or present in any other game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    There is no reasons to try and change a game that wasn't designed for it when they can't come close to even competing with other games that are currently on the market. I mean seriously those games have millions of players. Rift still have too low numbers on their servers that can't take advantage matchmaking since MMO's that main PvP require a very robust.. 100s of thousands if not millions of players to actually match make well. Rift doesn't have nowhere close to the numbers needed for systems they developed to even work anymore.
    I disagree entirely with this statement. First, I'm not trying to change this into a PvP game. I just want them to go and scale the numbers for content that is already made to the current level and adjust the rewards so that way it's a viable form of progression. I'm not asking for any major overhauls or development time. Second, see the above, Rift's unique soul system makes the gameplay unreplicable. Third, Conquest plays fine with a few hundred players and at Launch Prime definitely had the population for it. The failure to include a gamemode many used to exclusively play is mindboggling.

    CQ was generally played with 60 v 60 v 60 or so players. It had nowhere near the requirements as other games.
    Last edited by McChaffe; 05-09-2018 at 06:30 AM.
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  4. #34
    Champion minipara's Avatar
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    Ahh, Conquest, I miss those times :

    https://youtu.be/XQTxASurTMA?t=3m14s


  5. #35
    Plane Walker Hectyr's Avatar
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    I spent many, many hours enjoying Conquest- but I also understand why Trion felt the need to remove it.

    Conquest is an activity that requires a huge, robust pvp playerbase.

    If it generates rewards not only valuable, but BIS in a pve context, the players who dislike pvp will complain- this was shown to be true when "CQ power" was in existence.

    If it generates rewards valuable in a pve context that are also available via other avenues of activity, this provides potential for exploitation. If one Conquest premade exists outside of "prime time", there aren't enough participants to produce enough resistance to warrant any sense of competition. This was glaringly evident throughout the last year or so of Conquest being available.

    If it generates rewards valuable only in a pvp context, there will be very little participation.

    Note that although it has/had a robust population, Prime is composed of one server- whereas Conquest served multiple shards.


    This creates a series of headaches for the development team to try to achieve a sense of balance for the activity.

    Conquest was great, but like many things it ran its natural course and now is gone.

  6. #36
    Plane Touched ShayolGhul88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruine View Post
    I'd honestly like to see some evidence of claims like this. I've personally never seen it happen; a deliberate fixing of CQ matches.

    That could have easily been a leader with little experience or ability to lead CQ, or players that refuse to switch roles when you refer to the raid setup. You're right with respect to the premades being too powerful for the time, at least during late 3.0 when the PvP population had dwindled to low numbers already. The remaining CQ leaders admitted that 20 was too large a size for a premade and suggested it be reduced to 10.

    By the time they had reduced premades to 5, CQ simply wasn't a relevant piece of content for people to do anymore. I believe it was still giving upgrade parts for gear a tier or two behind.

    You're right about it being dead or dying off long before the premade reduction to 5. It was a time of 20-man premade "speed runs" which everyone hated. In fact it got to the point where the premade speed run was less than 10 people who'd split off and gank random stragglers.
    If it was easy to see by anyone, it wouldn't of been happening. But yes, it was.
    Did you read the Sorry I exploited thread before? Lot of top names/guilds back then doing borderline to cheating. Don't be foolish, many a top players got that way through exploits, hacks, etc.
    Pls respond

  7. #37
    Rift Chaser Shanoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    Calm down. First, there is nothing in my post that suggest me as screaming or telling some insane conspiracy theory. Secondly, how can something you agree with me that happened be both true and a lie? Isn't that hypocrisy. And third, only 1 month? If I wanted to pull up how many times they had tried to patch this alone with patch notes I can prove you wrong but not worth it. This actually lasted over a year at least. They tried to fix the queue in problem at least 3x before they reduced to 5 man. In that FACT alone it lasted more than 1 month.
    Ask yourself that question. If it only lasted 1 month why did they have to try to fix it at least 3 times over a year and then ultimately reduce the queue in to only 5?

    I understand you are passionate about CQ and even Trion may bring it back but I am just the one on the other side who is letting them know why they took it away in the first place. I have no say on it coming back but I can say what my opinion is and you can say your own opinion. No reason to accuse someone as a liar let alone after you admit that it was happening too.
    You completely neglect to mention that, more often than not, the CQ premades wanted to be q'd against each other...and the broken queuing system would stack them on the same team. The problems with conquest have been debated for years, but the majority of players wanted to be placed on a competitive faction. The best matches were always the ones where each team was getting kills, and where you could almost never predict who would win when the timer started.

    Pug stomping was really never fun for either side. What the majority of players really wanted were fair fights, and meaningful participation rewards. Trion could have done a better job with helping to ensure both of those factors met the needs of the playerbase.

    Many of the conspiracy theories surrounding exploits by players were blown way out of proportion, and were fueled by trolls for entertainment purposes.
    Last edited by Shanoah; Yesterday at 07:04 AM.
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  8. #38
    Plane Walker Baalthorne's Avatar
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    What is being called an exploit is maybe just espionage. All is fair in love and war. I never once had any knowledge of spies. I never once had any knowledge of creating doppelgänger raids to farm them. Total nonsense. CQ had to be dumbed down bc nobody else would step up and lead raids and get good at it. Once the player pop dwindled it was down to only a few raid leaders that knew what they were doing. If that included espionage then fine. Other team could of countered by having their own spies. I would consider that part of the game not an exploit. It’s actually really far from an exploit. It’s smart game play
    **** it dude. Lets go bowling

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