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Thread: Global healing and damage values have been drastically reduced.

  1. #16
    Shadowlander Kava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rifleman View Post
    I think real balance should have taken place but if this is what we are getting until the real pvp update then im fine with it. I would rather stand around doing a rotation waiting for the right chance to burst over pressing 2 or 3 buttons and seeing people fall over.

    There is more to pvp than playing fotm and I hope Trion doesnt revert this change, this nerf happened because some of you kept running around in a spec you knew was OP but didn't care and thus the TTK threads started to be made on the forums.

    Time to sleep in that bed -- Rifle.
    Blaming people for doing the best they can do is straight up silly. There is always going to be people who try and go as hard as they can and take every advantage given. It's competitive human nature. And, it is certainly the case in PvP...

    It's not the players responsibility to balance the game.

    Having a really long TTK makes it questionably advantageous to even pursue killing in WFs from a strategic perspective now. Say for instance karthan ridge where you are destroying nodes. There is no way you can cause an entire raid to wipe in the time frame required before they have re-spawned. If this dmg reduction is the change then re-spawn lengths should be drastically increased as well (And in my opinion fixed and not in waves) to increase the advantage gained from landing kills. It's just silly to spend so much time killing and then insta respawn. I've literally killed people, moved on to the next person and before that person is dead here is the person I just killed.

    If 100% of the focus is objectives you are going to have silly unkillable tanks cheesing objectives. Honestly the best team now would probably be a tanks, heals and CC only. Nobody do damage at all.

    And, while some people might think that is fun. I don't. Killing and fighting (you know PvP) and being on edge is fun. If you want click objects que IA.

    fun factor goes way down with this change. They need to just balance the game proper by tweaking a handful of souls/skills and otherwise do reasonable incremental adjustments to things like global damage/healing. Doing a massive global change is short sighted.

    -Voodoodoo
    Last edited by Kava; 10-25-2017 at 01:04 PM.

  2. #17
    Rift Disciple Rifleman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kava View Post
    Blaming people for doing the best they can do is straight up silly. There is always going to be people who try and go as hard as they can and take every advantage given. It's competitive human nature. And, it is certainly the case in PvP...

    It's not the players responsibility to balance the game.

    Having a really long TTK makes it questionably advantageous to even pursue killing in WFs from a strategic perspective now. Say for instance karthan ridge where you are destroying nodes. There is no way you can cause an entire raid to wipe in the time frame required before they have re-spawned. If this dmg reduction is the change then re-spawn lengths should be drastically increased as well (And in my opinion fixed and not in waves) to increase the advantage gained from landing kills. It's just silly to spend so much time killing and then insta respawn. I've literally killed people, moved on to the next person and before that person is dead here is the person I just killed.

    If 100% of the focus is objectives you are going to have silly unkillable tanks cheesing objectives. Honestly the best team now would probably be a tanks, heals and CC only. Nobody do damage at all.

    And, while some people might think that is fun. I don't. Killing and fighting (you know PvP) and being on edge is fun. If you want click objects que IA.

    fun factor goes way down with this change. They need to just balance the game proper by tweaking a handful of souls/skills and otherwise do reasonable incremental adjustments to things like global damage/healing. Doing a massive global change is short sighted.

    -Voodoodoo
    I'm not really sure what to say but I guess you are right. A 2-5 second ttk seems perfectly fine. I mean who wants to even do a rotation, right? I'd rather just do a few key presses and be rewarded instantly for it, rather than a rotation that will maximize my damage or healing in 5-10 seconds. Perhaps Rift is the wrong place for me.

    P.S. Keyens just change the TTK back and leave PvP alone -- Rifle.

  3. #18
    Telaran
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    OMG, just tested this out. All WF's will now be tank specs and with the damage reduction, they are hard as hell to kill with or without heals.

  4. #19
    Ascendant Rgizil's Avatar
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    So....are you saying I should come back and just lol tank everything? Can I even die?
    RGI@Deepwood --- <-Hello Kitty->
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  5. #20
    Shadowlander Vheeee's Avatar
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    Hello Rifters,
    I heard there was a 70+ global reduction to wf dps and heals. At first the idea sounded good...then I saw reality in wf action. The solution, as we are all seeing, had the promise. However, as with most things that are theory, this did not play out the way any pvper expected it would. With the reduction globally, does not help individual classes or specs. Granted, I don't expect balance, but I did expect slight decreases to certain abilities in classes to allow an overall smoother balance for warfronts... I am asking (as many already stated before me) for trion/rift to reverse this. And if that isn't possible, then at least boost certain things, because I see where you thought this would help get people focused more on completing objectives instead of the dps or heals leaderboards each week, perhaps it will. Perhaps it won't. Reconsider please, and definitely add upgrades for pvp gear, essences, weapons and trinkets.
    Guttertart | Sewerskittles | Trashcanbarbie | Toiletweasel

    Catastrophic

  6. #21
    Shadowlander Purrr's Avatar
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    OMG i really cant believe you could ruin pvp more than you already have. Having been a avid pvp'er for 6 years now i thought it couldnt sink any further into despair but NO you really did it this time.

    Instead of listening to everyone about individual soul tweaks and fixing broken specs you come up with LETS JUST STUFF UP EVERYONE. I rarely complain and take in my stride most of the stuff that you do even when its wrong but really this is way to much.

    All you have done is make impossible to kill specs (and we all know what they are) and now made them invincible a whole team cant down them unless everyone is in the same spec. Please Devs reconsider this lapse in judgement on your part and do something before we lose what little pvp player base we have left. Some of us dont really like PvE and only PvP so you are taking away our only source of fun left.

    As a patron im asking you to listen to the community and either remove this mistake or follow some of the previous suggestions given by players.
    Forgive your enemy but remember the bastards name.

    Karma..what goes around comes around.

  7. #22
    Plane Touched Escadora's Avatar
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    Yeah, no.. Screw everyone's ideas and return War fronts back to where it was.. I'd rather be "one shotted"/or on edge thinking if I'm gonna survive or die from heavy damage or whatever, then to suffer days/months/perma of this change(damage reduction)..

    I don't care about balance just return the healing and damage back to its original state..

    ~ Esca
    Escadora@Deepwood
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    -Slowing down Time and defeating the problem-

  8. #23
    Plane Touched Xibitz's Avatar
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    I haven't had a chance to test it yet (not sure If I'd even get a wf pop after reading all of this) but it sounds disastrous....since it was not tested, perhaps this will be fixed by the next patch, if not that would be the last straw for me.
    Last edited by Xibitz; 10-26-2017 at 05:40 AM.
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  9. #24
    Plane Touched AVGVSTVS's Avatar
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    there's no harm in feeling things out yeah the ttk is too long but i think finding the middle ground is worth it. and if it takes some time to find it, correct is better

    you can actually melee and notice the people kitting you now. Instead of being in a small situation and getting tab targeted by ranged and dying before its humanly possible to react and develop a strategy. I can actually volley with a ranged while in a melee skirmish.
    I have time to react to someone kititng me while im in melee as opposed to mindless forced to die cycles.

    if it were up to me i'd throw in a touch of global ranged damage reduction while some of the damage back.

    keep pvp fast paced but leave some time to react
    Last edited by AVGVSTVS; 10-25-2017 at 08:14 PM.

  10. #25
    Shadowlander Hinatasama's Avatar
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    You asked , they delivered. at this point I think dev is just trolling with pvpers, LAWL. keep feeding At this point, i honestly don't think they're gonna make any effective changes (cuz effective changes take time and effort) just for like what 40+ regular pvpers in the game? truth hurts, but i m just being realisticn
    Last edited by Hinatasama; 10-25-2017 at 09:58 PM.
    Hinatasamma@Dalaran

  11. #26
    Soulwalker Carox's Avatar
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    Hello RIFT developers and fellow community.

    I want to preface this by saying the following before we get started.
    Not all criticism comes from a place of hate or trolling but passion and love.
    If we the community didn't provide a single feedback thread post-implementation, give advice pre-implementation based off of PTS or provide guides for the developers to analyze that would improve the PVP in the game it would show that we did not care. Is that what you want? A whole core part of the community that does not care because they feel their feedback is not ever heard or implemented? Would it hurt to show that you care just as much as we do?

    Yes, we have been told that the game was/is not PVP-centric by the developer team but that does not mean that it was never an enjoyable part of the game that had important aspects of it getting frequent updates in the past that made people come here in the first place. This includes myself.

    In my personal opinion when a game steers away from one of the two core aspects that bring people to an MMORPG such as PVE (dungeons and raids) and PVP (warfronts and conquest), it suffers. Both aspects should be getting equal treatment. Yes, I realize that costumes are awesome and dimensions are another part of the game that some enjoy but it's not one of the two core aspects that keep people coming back. If they want to design a virtual reality environment, they should really be going to games like minecraft, sims or trove. Not the other way around. We have callings with soul tree abilities for a reason. However, taking concepts from dimensioneers making dimensions and implementing them into open world content and allowing them to give names to certain sections of a zone on the map can make them a useful part of the community.

    Now that we got that out of the way... Here goes nothing.

    The changes made today for PVP pretty much takes the fun out of everything. It leaves no room to strategically make movements placing yourself behind pillars, trees or walls to prevent yourself from getting big blows, pressing your rotation as fast as you can etc. There is no challenge left.
    You can literally stand there in DPS spec acting as a tank, be pounded on for a while before even remotely thinking about pressing a single button but what's the point in pressing any to begin with due to the damage being reduced by so much that it takes forever to kill anyone especially as a Mage playing Warlock using DoT abilities and Rogues having those cleanses and healers too so unless you zerg with other DPS players the entire match you're pretty much useless.

    Additionally, the new comers that do not know or play FOTM specs are never going to get a single kill in
    despite the fact that matches are ten times longer due to the fact that we end up fighting forever and get interrupted from capturing points, picking up flags/fangs/vessels/eggs/stones or capping them then when we finally do kill them, the respawn rates are so fast they're back before we can capture points, pick up flags/fangs/vessels/eggs/stones or cap them. Let's not even get started on all the control utilities or AOE abilities that also prevent these things or the fact that when you do pick up the fang/vessel/egg+manugo machine that the damage taken is more than a healer or you can heal yourself.

    Furthermore, there's literally no point in using healers or tanks anymore because the heals have been reduced by so much that it barely does anything for a single person, let alone an entire team. It's also pretty laughable that healing potions do more heals than two healers on your team. As for tanks, they don't do any damage but prevent people from capturing points, picking up flags/fangs/vessels/eggs/stones or capping them so no one wins because they rarely die and thus making the whole match a waste of time.

    TL;DR?

    I plead that we have this reverted back to the old way or maybe even just reduce it to 50% for the FOTM specs and 25-30% for the non-FOTM specs because 75% is just too much and the majority of the PVP community hates this "fix" to balancing. Not to mention, do you want to lose more of your playerbase thus losing money right after releasing a new soul pack for Mages and Autumn Harvest world event is activated? Because I've already read across several communication platforms that people are definitely reconsidering it now as it was the final nail in the coffin. It's really disappointing.


    4.3: Crucia's Claw; I ask that we please have the following restored/changed:
    (These are the things we had before, during and beyond the Storm Legion expansion.)

    - Current slayers gear;
    -- Armor: helm, shoulders, chest, gloves, belt, legs and feet.
    -- Accessories: cape, necklace, earrings, rings, trinket and seal.
    -- Weapons: Two-hands, One-hands, Ranged.
    ***All with tiers from blue to relic using upgrade parts bought with favor.
    - Current slayers gear switched to vengeance and valor stats instead of hit.
    - Gear set bonuses with appropriate PVP crystals.
    - Consumables from the *old* mercenary's manastones, mercenary's powerstones, mercenary's witchstones, mercenary's insoles, mercenary's riding chaps, mercenary's armor plating bought from the NPC in TB to *new* slayer ones appropriate to this expansion bought with favor.
    - PVP souls without legendaries like they once were so that they can be balanced appropriately without messing with PVE souls.
    - Warfronts with players levels 65-69 and level 70 in separate queues.
    - 5 vs 5 map reinstated. (maybe?)
    - Battle of Port Scion map reinstated.
    - Conquest map(s): Stillmoor and/or Steppes of Infinity reinstated with a cache at the end giving the winning team the last upgrade part to get to the next tier with other random PVP related rewards such as challenger marks, favor etc. as RNG.
    - Give us back the ability to queue as a raid for conquest.
    - Take away the ability to queue warfronts with more than 2-3 people unless 5 vs 5 map is reinstated then allow 5.
    - Make PVE gear not be BiS, period for any PVP activity, duels included (if possible).
    - Leaderboard updates;
    -- Add: Ghar Station Eyn, Blighted Antechamber and Assault on Bronze Tomb and their objective information from players.
    - Leaderboard reset. (maybe?)
    - Ratings;
    -- Win percentage
    -- Win, Lose and Ties
    ***All reset. (maybe?)

    5.0 Expansion: Unknown name

    *NEW CONTENT*

    - Warfront map
    - Conquest map

    Please do take my suggestions into consideration because I'm sure it would silence 75% of the PVP community for a while if these issues were resolved.
    Feel free to give constructive criticism in return. I would greatly appreciate it.

    Just my two cents. Take it or leave it.

    Thank you for taking the time to read.

    See you out there in Telara.
    (probably in TB AFKing now.)
    Last edited by Carox; 11-02-2017 at 03:11 AM.
    <3 Your friendly RIFT community member,
    Carox

  12. #27
    Soulwalker
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    Thumbs down Da heck is this?!

    Ok I want to know who did it this time. Who is the care bear PC baby that went into PvP one time, for the first time ever, and wanted everyone to stay alive and be equal in a PvP based game?! Really?! The next time you want to cry about how unfair PvP is for you please just go buy a hamburger and frenchCRIES and never enter PvP again.

    You put a MAX on my MAX hits?! Whats the point when I can pop a potion and drink some pyrewater faster than my healers can heal me? You all need to ctrl+Z/UNDO this patch I wasted bandwidth downloading.

    I guess I will start making new MACROS to hug people to death because that seems to be the only way to PvP on Rift now. /facepalm

    Thanks,
    Wreckah -aka- Jakestaz

  13. #28
    Shadowlander Kava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakestaz View Post
    Ok I want to know who did it this time. Who is the care bear PC baby that went into PvP one time, for the first time ever, and wanted everyone to stay alive and be equal in a PvP based game?! Really?! The next time you want to cry about how unfair PvP is for you please just go buy a hamburger and frenchCRIES and never enter PvP again.

    You put a MAX on my MAX hits?! Whats the point when I can pop a potion and drink some pyrewater faster than my healers can heal me? You all need to ctrl+Z/UNDO this patch I wasted bandwidth downloading.

    I guess I will start making new MACROS to hug people to death because that seems to be the only way to PvP on Rift now. /facepalm

    Thanks,
    Wreckah -aka- Jakestaz
    Yeah it's hilarious how a pyrewater can heal you faster than 3 healers.

    A tactic I used last night in outdoor zones was fight for ten minutes out in the open till at about 25% health. Line of sight, mount, speed off, drink water, come back.

    PvP is so far removed from being skill based now. It's going to be lame gimmicks like this.

    This whole thing is soo goofy, stupid and terrible. You almost had me back RIFT. ALmost....
    Last edited by Kava; 10-26-2017 at 04:26 AM.

  14. #29
    Shadowlander Kava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qualities View Post
    "Global healing and damage values have been drastically reduced. Time to live should be much longer now."

    Good very first step, what's next?

    EDIT :

    I didn't tested out before i made this thread. So my point of view after few warfronts :

    - Arround 75% reduction is a way too much. I think we should try 20-25%.
    - Healers look much more impacted than the DD (Damage: 0.15 > 0.04 Healing: 0.175 > 0.045 - source from a mate), it need a review.
    - DD healing spells aren't nerf as the rest ( a defiler is actually doing a better HPS than a FK)
    - Trinkets and vials aren't appropriate to this update. It need a fixe, as example PvP NMT trinkets aren't nerf (dps or heals), it should follow the reductions.


    What do you think about and/or what do you suggest?
    I agree. Way to much.

    It was possibly well intended but not very appropriate. I get it. The developers probably don't have time for 50 pvpers.

    Since you asked, if I could wave a magic wand and give something a tweak & try it would have looked more like this:

    Primalist DMG & Healing reduced 25% in warfronts
    All other DMG & Healing reduced 15% in warfronts
    Armor Penetration half as effective in warfronts
    A quick death dmg reduced by 10%? in warfronts
    (probably a skill or two I'm not thinking of?)

    Primalist (multiple builds), bladedancers, and warlords (maybe paragon too?) are the ones primarily responsible for the ridiculously quick kills. This bumps everyone down and bumps them down a small notch more.

    Then to fully complete the change I would add a high valor PVP only trinket that provides a meaningful dmg immunity+purge+Break free on cooldown to give everyone a powerful tool to combat the 2second TTKs and DOTs with skillful play. See I'm not being 100% biased...That would be a big nerf to warlocks (and other dotters). Basically they would have to apply dots twice very frequently and would get a lot less kills while a ghost ;).

    Something like this:

    (Insert class based stats)

    "Trinket of saving your *** once and a while"
    Self Utility
    Instant - No Global Cooldown
    Cooldown: 2 minutes
    Removes all control and movement impairing effects. Removes all Curse, Disease, Bleeds & Poison. Immune to damage for 4 seconds. This ability is not affected by global cooldown.

    -Voodoodoo
    Last edited by Kava; 10-26-2017 at 06:35 AM.

  15. #30
    Rift Master Maltie's Avatar
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    Man idk why im even replying to this thread anymore

    Here are the main issues with your idea, Keyens.

    You didn't take into account passive healing masteries and skills. For example, I can PASSIVELY do 3k hps as Bladedancer because Defensive Pose and Planar Replenishment are not reduced in PvP.

    ~ Oddly enough, the mage mastery (Overflowing Vitality does get reduced)

    To put this into perspective, my Phys does around 6-7k hps ST.

    You're also not taking into account vials, philters and reliquaries. These still heal and damage for their full tooltip amount.

    So stuff like this happens.


    Global healing and damage values have been drastically reduced.-philter.jpg

    It's also worth noting that is only on one player in the screenshot (it's also being buffed by Blade and Soul Parity, lol), it hits a maximum of 8.

    Another issue, things like Warmongers Charm/Symbol still deal their same amount, which wasn't so bad pre-75% nerf, but now its fairly noticeable. So along with my passive 3k hps as a dps (7k hps behind one of the best FK's in the game atm) I can also heal myself for a total of 168k which is ogcd. Again, wasn't so bad in the previous 1-5s TTK meta, but now its just absurd.


    TL;DR ~ If you're a rogue, always have Defensive Pose on, take the Planar Replenishment mastery and stack up on heal pots and venom philters. Have fun being a god in PvP.

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