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Thread: Blade Dancer Balance?

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Exclamation Blade Dancer Balance?

    Setting aside that Blade Dancer ignores ALL armor with Fated Blades, and has substantial crit power boosts and damage boosts lets talk about their crit rate, because this is when things get really out of hand and causes their TTK to be shorter than the duration of their own stuns.

    Running 61 Bladedancer / 15 Ranger / 0 Tact, that's 10% (Quick reflexes 5%, Eagle Eye 5%) passive crit chance boost. 5% from Dauntless Strike. 50% from Blade and Soul Parity, for 65% total crit chance boost. They would only need 35% base physical crit for 100% crit rate. Some are going to argue that most rogues will not have 35% base crit chance from stats alone, that's fine, pvp gear gives you roughly 20% before fragments, so we'll call it an even 85% chance to critically hit you (yes that means 8.5 out of 10 abilities WILL crit you, the 9th ability will have a 50% chance to crit or not). When this is added up with their other abilities that ignores ALL armor (Fated Blades), 50% increased critical hit damage (Blade and Soul Parity), 150% increased attack power and weapon contribution (Fated Blades) and when those abilities can be refreshed (Legendary Twin Cleave) for nearly 100% up time, this becomes quickly unbalanced in Warfronts and the TTK is way too short (roughly 3-4 seconds assuming you have around 270k HP when they start attacking you). Let just say you'll die before their 6 second debilitate Disassemble, and probably before their 4s stun Disengage.

    I'm not saying nerf this spec into the ground, but I am saying the crit rate in PvP needs to be reduced, having nearly 100% crit chance up nearly all the time is very unbalanced. I would also suggest ignoring ALL armor is very unbalanced in PvP also.


    EDIT: Ty Nixia for calling me out on the math. I fixed it.
    Last edited by Jegodinn; 10-18-2017 at 04:52 AM.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Semiso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jegodinn View Post
    Setting aside that Blade Dancer ignores ALL armor with Fated Blades, and has substantial crit power boosts and damage boosts lets talk about their crit rate, because this is when things get really out of hand and causes their TTK to be shorter than the duration of their own stuns.

    Running 61 blade dancer / 10 assassin / 5 ranger, that's 15% passive crit chance boost. 5% from Dauntless Strike. 50% from Blade and Soul Parity, for 70% total crit chance boost. They would only need 30% base physical crit for 100% crit rate. Some are going to argue that most rogues will not have 30% base crit chance, that's fine, pvp gear gives you roughly 20% before fragments, so we'll call it an even 90% chance to critically hit you (yes that means 9 out of 10 abilities WILL crit you). When this is added up with their other abilities that ignores ALL armor (Fated Blades), increases critical hit damage (Blade and Soul Parity), 150% increased attack power and weapon contribution (Fated Blades) and when those abilities can be refreshed (Legendary Twin Cleave) for 100% up time, this becomes quickly unbalanced in Warfronts and the TTK is way too short (roughly 3 seconds assuming you have around 270k HP when they start attacking you).

    I'm not saying nerf this spec into the ground, but I am saying the crit rate in PvP needs to be reduced, having nearly 100% crit chance up all the time is very unbalanced. I would also suggest ignoring ALL armor 100% of the time is very unbalanced in PvP also.

    Bladedancer is melee Jegodinn, its very difficult to play as a melee these Days with all those ranged specs killing you under one sec, such as Tempest, reaver, elementalist, stormcaller etc.

    Bladedancer and other melee specs are alright compared to those specs i mentioned above, in fact i would argue that bladedancer have a toughter time reaching their targets who have an advantage being 35m away from you.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semiso View Post
    Bladedancer is melee Jegodinn, its very difficult to play as a melee these Days with all those ranged specs killing you under one sec, such as Tempest, reaver, elementalist, stormcaller etc.

    Bladedancer and other melee specs are alright compared to those specs i mentioned above, in fact i would argue that bladedancer have a toughter time reaching their targets who have an advantage being 35m away from you.
    I'm sure melee is hard for some... There are plenty of Blade Dancers that do not have this problem that really makes the problem stick out like a sore thumb...

    Here's a bit of proof if you really must have it:

    63-0????
    https://i.imgur.com/XuRk1pU.jpg

    I'll point out that Nivlak only learned how to BD last month. 40-1 with 23 million damage.
    https://i.imgur.com/uHifMbU.png
    Last edited by Jegodinn; 10-17-2017 at 09:47 AM.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple Semiso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jegodinn View Post
    I'm sure melee is hard for some... There are plenty of Blade Dancers that do not have this problem that really makes the problem stick out like a sore thumb...

    Here's a bit of proof if you really must have it:

    63-0????
    https://i.imgur.com/yRlDvXn.jpg

    I'll point out that Nivlak only learned how to BD last month. 40-1 with 23 million damage.
    https://i.imgur.com/uHifMbU.png
    Ohhh i know them, they both have their own pocket healers. Anyone is good with a pocket healer :P

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semiso View Post
    Ohhh i know them, they both have their own pocket healers. Anyone is good with a pocket healer :P
    Ballz did in that screenshot, but Nivlak didn't. It doesn't change the fact that all I'm really asking here is to reduce their crit chance and their ability to ignore all armor. It's not a horrible request and wouldn't completely break blade dancer. It's just crit chance and armor.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker Silaxis's Avatar
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    Default WUT

    Quote Originally Posted by Semiso View Post
    Bladedancer is melee Jegodinn, its very difficult to play as a melee these Days with all those ranged specs killing you under one sec, such as Tempest, reaver, elementalist, stormcaller etc.

    Bladedancer and other melee specs are alright compared to those specs i mentioned above, in fact i would argue that bladedancer have a toughter time reaching their targets who have an advantage being 35m away from you.
    Man... I really really hope you are just trolling...

    What, and I mean WHAT Tempest, Reaver, or SC are you talking about that can kill anything other than a housefly? If you really believe that those particular souls can kill anything in under one sec, I would love to see what your ETC is...

    Beastmaster? Tactician? Typhoon? Dominator? DRUID? -gasp-

  7. #7
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silaxis View Post
    Man... I really really hope you are just trolling...

    What, and I mean WHAT Tempest, Reaver, or SC are you talking about that can kill anything other than a housefly? If you really believe that those particular souls can kill anything in under one sec, I would love to see what your ETC is...

    Beastmaster? Tactician? Typhoon? Dominator? DRUID? -gasp-
    He means a melee Sentinel wearing leather armor.

    Also, to OP, it may be beneficial to sift through some of the other posts regarding Bladedancers' current state for more information. This is a known issue within the community -- and it shouldn't be difficult to find further information.

    However, I do not believe their crit chance needs to be altered; a better alternative would be to drastically reduce their armor ignore, which would effectively lower their critical damage overall.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Semiso's Avatar
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    Man... I really really hope you are just trolling...
    you guessed it
    Last edited by Semiso; 10-17-2017 at 12:12 PM.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched AVGVSTVS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semiso View Post
    Bladedancer is melee Jegodinn, its very difficult to play as a melee these Days with all those ranged specs killing you under one sec, such as Tempest, reaver, elementalist, stormcaller etc.

    Bladedancer and other melee specs are alright compared to those specs i mentioned above, in fact i would argue that bladedancer have a toughter time reaching their targets who have an advantage being 35m away from you.
    How could blade dancer have a tougher time reaching it's targets? it's got 2 runspeed buffs an extra break free and the longest debilitate in the game with YET another buff that allows immunity to CC yet again VIA dancing steel.

    all the sudden because its "rogue" melee suddenly becomes hard again which is true but i mean come on here. the thing is the cadillac of melee.

    and if somehow BD don't work we can just sit in gdmn stealth all wf waiting at an enemy spawn.

    ive long advocated melee be made more feasible but just because its melee doesn't mean it can't be over the top.
    Last edited by AVGVSTVS; 10-17-2017 at 06:19 PM.

  10. #10
    Shadowlander
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    Jagodinn play worlord, 1butten with 1 hit over 180k dmg this is nerfed.
    Bigpummp,Cl,Bobsing@Brutwacht

  11. #11
    Telaran Redawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annonymus View Post
    Jagodinn play worlord, 1butten with 1 hit over 180k dmg this is nerfed.
    As a pyromancer its extremely easy to get over 40k damage with cinder burst in pvp but it very rng based to get 160k crits in pvp with cinder burst. If pyromancers had the amount of crit chance and crit power as bladedancers, im very positive we would see similar results. As for jegodin and other warriors playing Warlord? I believe warlords will get a nerf of some sort to balance dps across the boards.

  12. #12
    Soulwalker Chefsnutz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jegodinn View Post
    Setting aside that Blade Dancer ignores ALL armor with Fated Blades, and has substantial crit power boosts and damage boosts lets talk about their crit rate, because this is when things get really out of hand and causes their TTK to be shorter than the duration of their own stuns.

    Running 61 Bladedancer / 15 Ranger / 0 Tact, that's 10% (Quick reflexes 5%, Eagle Eye 5%) passive crit chance boost. 5% from Dauntless Strike. 50% from Blade and Soul Parity, for 65% total crit chance boost. They would only need 35% base physical crit for 100% crit rate. Some are going to argue that most rogues will not have 35% base crit chance from stats alone, that's fine, pvp gear gives you roughly 20% before fragments, so we'll call it an even 85% chance to critically hit you (yes that means 8.5 out of 10 abilities WILL crit you, the 9th ability will have a 50% chance to crit or not). When this is added up with their other abilities that ignores ALL armor (Fated Blades), 50% increased critical hit damage (Blade and Soul Parity), 150% increased attack power and weapon contribution (Fated Blades) and when those abilities can be refreshed (Legendary Twin Cleave) for nearly 100% up time, this becomes quickly unbalanced in Warfronts and the TTK is way too short (roughly 3-4 seconds assuming you have around 270k HP when they start attacking you). Let just say you'll die before their 6 second debilitate Disassemble, and probably before their 4s stun Disengage.

    I'm not saying nerf this spec into the ground, but I am saying the crit rate in PvP needs to be reduced, having nearly 100% crit chance up nearly all the time is very unbalanced. I would also suggest ignoring ALL armor is very unbalanced in PvP also.


    EDIT: Ty Nixia for calling me out on the math. I fixed it.
    More math Jego, you're forgetting that players have a passive 10% less chance to be critically hit through the War tree in Planar Attunement.
    Also, rogues aren't the only melee dps that can kill people during their CC. Ie. in shaman I have a 3sec stun and can still kill someone in that time. If anyone cannot kill somebody with a 4sec stun or a 6sec debilitate... facepalm*
    Last edited by Chefsnutz; 10-19-2017 at 05:00 PM.

  13. #13
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chefsnutz View Post
    More math Jego, you're forgetting that players have a passive 10% less chance to be critically hit through the War tree in Planar Attunement.
    Also, rogues aren't the only melee dps that can kill people during their CC. Ie. in shaman I have a 3sec stun and can still kill someone in that time. If anyone cannot kill somebody with a 4sec stun or a 6sec debilitate... facepalm*
    Yes, but could you slip away or lie in wait in stealth the way a BD could?
    !

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chefsnutz View Post
    More math Jego, you're forgetting that players have a passive 10% less chance to be critically hit through the War tree in Planar Attunement.
    Also, rogues aren't the only melee dps that can kill people during their CC. Ie. in shaman I have a 3sec stun and can still kill someone in that time. If anyone cannot kill somebody with a 4sec stun or a 6sec debilitate... facepalm*
    Chef, I respect your opinion but there aren't any shamans running around killing people with deep freeze like BD is killing with fated blades and blade and soul parity, at least not anymore, you're right about the PA War tree also, and it's the only reason crit rate on precision strike and some other abilities are 75-80% and not 85%-100% (this is assuming the target has the PA points spent in the crit rate reduction).

    I mean you know something is wrong if I learned how to play BD this week and I get this:
    Blade Dancer Balance?-lolop68.png

    and it's because BD is ignoring 100% armor and the crit rate is through the roof:
    Blade Dancer Balance?-lolbdpc.png

    Note: the physical crit screenshot isn't taking into account dauntless strike (5%) as it's a debuff on the target, so (25.47 + 60 + 5 = 90.47).
    Last edited by Jegodinn; 10-20-2017 at 07:43 AM.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Xclvsive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jegodinn View Post
    Chef, I respect your opinion but there aren't any shamans running around killing people with deep freeze like BD is killing with fated blades and blade and soul parity, at least not anymore, you're right about the PA War tree also, and it's the only reason crit rate on precision strike and some other abilities are 75-80% and not 85%-100% (this is assuming the target has the PA points spent in the crit rate reduction).

    I mean you know something is wrong if I learned how to play BD this week and I get this:
    Attachment 32204

    and it's because BD is ignoring 100% armor and the crit rate is through the roof:
    Attachment 32205

    Note: the physical crit screenshot isn't taking into account dauntless strike (5%) as it's a debuff on the target, so (25.47 + 60 + 5 = 90.47).
    if you use dauntless strike in bd then you still don't know how to play bd in pvp

    edit: idk what the big fuss is about over BD BEING SO BROKEN, I literally was 3-4 shotting people on my rogue in the second week of the expansion up until I quit and nobody was complaining. I knew it was broken and I said so multiple times, so did balls. Everyone is so far behind holy hell.
    Last edited by Xclvsive; 10-20-2017 at 08:50 AM.
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