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Thread: Balance in Rift PvP

  1. #1
    RIFT Guide Writer Maltie's Avatar
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    Default Balance in Rift PvP

    Decided to make a new thread as the old one run its course

    As the OP’s list is very extreme, I decided to make my own, just slightly more detailed. Colour code works like this;

    Red - High Priority
    Orange - Medium Priority
    Green - Low Priority

    This list can contain buffs or nerfs.



    QoL changes.


    Unbreakable Stuns and CC’s that ignore immunities need to go. These abilities have been broken for way too long.

    Stun Grenade - 30 points into Sab, lasts 4 seconds and completely ignores all immunities and can’t be broken free from.

    Legendary Flashbang - 0 points into Sab, ignores immunities but can be broken free from.

    Shadow Lash - 0 points into Shadeborn, pull that ignores immunities.

    Legendary Strangulate - 4 points into Shadeborn, ignores immunities but can be broken free from.

    Legendary Sergeant's Order - 0 points into Warlord, ignores immunities but can be broken free from.

    Primal Fear - 5 points into Predator, ignores immunities but can be broken free from.

    The main way to achieve PvP balance is to add PvP reductions to certain outlying abilities, and tweaking those each week until you hit the sweet spot.

    I’ll split this up by class, as Rogue is the one i’m most comfortable with, i’ll start with that.

    Rogue


    Bladedancer

    As stated previously, the main reason Bladedancer is so strong is because of its high Crits, so a PvP reduction to Blade and Soul Parity by 20-30% would bring Bladedancer into a more balanced state.

    Regular crits for Bladedancer are 80k, so a 20-30% nerf to Blade and Soul Parity would lower Bladedancer crits down to 64000/54000 if it crits, which would be fine as the Crit rate would also be lowered

    Assassin

    Assassin fix is very simple, either make Assassin DoT’s cleansable or make Assassin poisons purgeable again. Or both.

    Nightblade

    Nightblade isn’t a major outlier in PvP atm, because of its slow build-up, but with the right offsoul this spec can do a lot of damage from a 20-35m range (35m range with Coda of Wrath, which is really strong when the burst damage for Dark Descent/Dusk Strike is ready)

    Don’t allow Dark Descent/Dusk Strike buff non-Nightblade finishers, this doesn’t effect PvE because the Nightblade/Deadeye variant is killed off anyway, and no one is uses bard as an offsoul for PvE


    Marksman

    The only thing that's overperforming in Marksman is Planar Variation. The reason PV is so strong in PvP is because it’s Ethereal Damage, as you know Ethereal Damage effectively ignores 100% of enemy resistances and armor. Which is the major reason behind it being so strong. On a side note, this will be the exact same reason as to why Mystic Archer will over-perform in PvP.

    The most optimal way I can think of changing PV is to make it hit a maximum of 3/4 targets, rather than it’s current 8. This way it won't effect Marksmans ST dps in PvE and most raid fights don’t have more than 3 cleaveable targets and it won’t wipe 8 players in seconds.

    You could also allow Planar Variation to get buffed by Grand Explosion (tact) so it only suffers a 10% loss to PV in PvE.

    Physician

    I’d love for Biofeedback to get a small buff, it’s supposed to be a cooldown heal but it’s very weak in PvP.


    Cleric

    Cabalist

    Legendary Condensed Obliteration. This ability is still firing off Bound Fate whilst dead, this has been attempted to get fixed multiple times and is still broken.

    This is the only thing (in my mind) that clerics need to be “nerfed” on.

    Sentinel

    Make L Light of Redemption and Healer's Blessing unpurgeable. Leave the remaining 3 buffs (Faith Rewarded, Marked by the Light, Heroic Resolve) to be purgeable. 5 buffs to maintain is too many, imo.

    Inquisitor

    Add Twisted Soul (major) to Harsh Discipline

    Look into buffing Bolts (not Bolt of Depravity) or making the DoTs deal slightly more damage in PvP, once all of Inq’s CD’s are up their dps is underwhelming and they are left waiting for all CD’s to come back up again.

    Druid

    L Summon: Faerie Healer, nerfed way too much in PvP, put it to 5% (up from 3%, it used to be 9 in PvP)

    Mage
    Elementalist

    Cycle of Air - Chains to another target. -- If no other target is available, Crystalline Missiles should deal double the damage to the target.

    Icy Gale should be made an oGCD ability

    Elementalist is lacking in Utility, it doesn’t have an interrupt or a purge, and should be given one (water pet is terrible). Low point purges should be accessible to all classes, Necromancer has a purge but no one will be using necro as an off soul given how weak it is.

    Replace Elemental Armor with a purge, 44 points in (exactly the same point as Marksman). Elemental Armor is useless anyway so it won’t make a difference in PvE.

    Warlock

    Neddra's Essence - 80% damage reduction for 7s.

    I'm unsure why a dps soul has the second most powerful damage mitigation CD in the game, im not suggesting removing this ability (though in a perfect world, it would be - no other class has damage mitigation CD’s in their dps souls, mages have 3 - Planar Shield in Harb and 11 points into Mystic Archer has Paths Rewritten) so nerfing the CD to 40/50% would suffice. Or nerfing it down 50%, making it a dodge increase and tag it with a run speed buff, like other classes have.


    Warrior
    Warlord / Paragon

    Reduce L Ready Postures bonus to A Quick Death to 200% (down from 300%), this leaves Warlord, whilst this might seem a drastic change, average AQD procs hit for 80-90k (non-crit), with the difference it puts them down to 60-70k hits (non-crits), this would be a good start for Warlord and could be lowered further if needed.


    Reduce the L Sergeant's Order damage bonus to players to 20% (down from 30%) - This will help with Paragons burst damage.


    Tempest

    Remove the PvP reductions previously put onto Charged Pulse, Arc and Double Pulse

    Give Tempest a Purge. Warriors do not have a purge in any of their dps souls, makes sense to put it into their Ranged ST soul.


    Primalist
    Also needs to be given a purge in one of its ranged Souls.

    Predator

    Scent of Blood - This needs to be fixed. In its current state it is proccing other procs, this should not be the case, procs should not proc other procs, this has been Rifts rule since Beta, but for some reason this has been allowed to stay broken since Predator has been on PTS.

    Primal Lord

    Add a 30% pvp reduction to Threshers Maw

    Or, alternatively, don’t allow Primal Avatar: Wind Serpent to affect non-dervish souls.

    Farseer

    This soul is probably on par (if not higher) that Tactician healing pre-nerf. But, the only reason for this is the two outlying abilities, L Fortunes Protection and Impending Fate. The rest of the soul in PvP is underwhelming.

    Try reducing Fortunes Protection bonus with Impending Fate to 200% in PvP (down from 400% - Leave Insight to have the 400% increase), this would be perfect to test on PTS before pushing to live.

    I was trying to leave healing souls out of this, but Farseer is definitely in need of some fine tuning.

    Vulcanist

    Imo, the Ethereal Beam nerf was too drastic. 50% was way too much of a nerf in PvP, try 40%.


    If you feel like I missed something or have constructive feedback, i'd love to hear it. If you're just replying because I mentioned your class and you're upset, don't bother <3


    Small note - Mystic Archer isn't on here atm because it's not hit live yet, but when it does im sure it will make the list.
    Last edited by Maltie; 10-17-2017 at 10:41 AM.
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  2. #2
    Telaran Dragynkyn's Avatar
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    I would like to add something to this discussion, that I hope the devs will consider.
    Pvp may not be that much of a money maker, and people who just pvp may tend to be free to play players, but that doesn't negate pvp from being important to the overall health of a game.
    PVE has limits, and can be a bit grindy and boring at times. For those of us who love the game, PVP becomes a time to just let loose and have fun, and lets face it, see who's better in a world outside raids.

    I barely log in anymore, because outside the grind, there is nothing to do. A raid with 3 bosses will add what? Another couple of hours per week for a few weeks of play time? I get that the game needs to make money to be successful but people who log in, SPEND MONEY. My play time since pvp was basically destroyed by imbalance, has been cut by 3/4. Where I used to play every day all day, I'm lucky to log a few hours a week now.

    No class should be able to take a fully geared toon, from full health to 0 in 3 seconds let alone less than one. (and yes this is happening). Cleric is currently all but obsolete in PVP, and the funny thing is? They are actually probably the most balanced class in pvp, with decent burst and sustained damage. Other classes should be coming in right around where they are.

    Good Pvp is an integral part of a healthy MMO. All of the long lasting MMOs stuck around, not because they had good quests and raids alone, but because they also had good PVP. PVE has limits, and can be boring. All work and no play and all that. You're losing long time players. Many have gone to WOW, ESO and other games. Many who used to be big spenders. Granted PVP is only part of the reason, raids that required barely any prog was another, but thats another topic so I digress. Want to know the long term health of a MMO? Check their PVP health. Its a giant indicator. The more we have to do, the more we log in, the more we spend. If we aren't walking into a store we aren't spending and all your game packs, and mounts and costumes wont matter.

  3. #3
    Plane Touched bollesti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maltie View Post
    Decided to make a new thread as the old one run its course

    As the OP’s list is very extreme, I decided to make my own, just slightly more detailed. Colour code works like this;

    Red - High Priority
    Orange - Medium Priority
    Green - Low Priority

    This list can contain buffs or nerfs.

    The main way to achieve PvP balance is to add PvP reductions to certain outlying abilities, and tweaking those each week until you hit the sweet spot.

    I’ll split this up by class, as Rogue is the one i’m most comfortable with, i’ll start with that.

    Rogue


    Bladedancer

    As stated previously, the mean reason Bladedancer is so strong is because of its high Crits, so a PvP reduction to Blade and Soul Parity by 20-30% would bring Bladedancer into a more balanced state.

    Regular crits for Bladedancer are 80k, so a 20-30% nerf to Blade and Soul Parity would lower Bladedancer crits down to 64000/54000 if it crits, which would be fine as the Crit rate would also be lowered

    Assassin

    Assassin fix is very simple, either make Assassin DoT’s cleansable or make Assassin poisons purgeable again. Or both.

    Nightblade

    Nightblade isn’t a major outlier in PvP atm, because of its slow build-up, but with the right offsoul this spec can do a lot of damage from a 20-35m range (35m range with Coda of Wrath, which is really strong when the burst damage for Dark Descent/Dusk Strike is ready)

    Don’t allow Dark Descent/Dusk Strike buff non-Nightblade finishers, this doesn’t effect PvE because the Nightblade/Deadeye variant is killed off anyway, and no one is uses bard as an offsoul for PvE


    Marksman

    The only thing that's overperforming in Marksman is Planar Variation. The reason PV is so strong in PvP is because it’s Ethereal Damage, as you know Ethereal Damage effectively ignores 100% of enemy resistances and armor. Which is the major reason behind it being so strong. On a side note, this will be the exact same reason as to why Mystic Archer will over-perform in PvP.

    The most optimal way I can think of changing PV is to make it hit a maximum of 3/4 targets, rather than it’s current 8. This way it won't effect Marksmans ST dps in PvE and most raid fights don’t have more than 3 cleaveable targets and it won’t wipe 8 players in seconds.

    You could also allow Planar Variation to get buffed by Grand Explosion (tact) so it only suffers a 10% loss to PV in PvE.

    Physician

    I’d love for Biofeedback to get a small buff, it’s supposed to be a cooldown heal but it’s very weak in PvP.


    Cleric

    Cabalist

    Legendary Condensed Obliteration. This ability is still firing off Bound Fate whilst dead, this has been attempted to get fixed multiple times and is still broken.

    This is the only thing (in my mind) that clerics need to be “nerfed” on.

    Sentinel

    Make L Light of Redemption and Healer's Blessing unpurgeable. Leave the remaining 3 buffs (Faith Rewarded, Marked by the Light, Heroic Resolve) to be purgeable. 5 buffs to maintain is too many, imo.

    Inquisitor

    Add Twisted Soul (major) to Harsh Discipline

    Look into buffing Bolts (not Bolt of Depravity) or making the DoTs deal slightly more damage in PvP, once all of Inq’s CD’s are up their dps is underwhelming and they are left waiting for all CD’s to come back up again.

    Druid

    L Summon: Faerie Healer, nerfed way too much in PvP, put it to 5% (up from 3%, it used to be 9 in PvP)

    Mage
    Elementalist

    Cycle of Air - Chains to another target. -- If no other target is available, Crystalline Missiles should deal double the damage to the target.

    Icy Gale should be made an oGCD ability

    Elementalist is lacking in Utility, it doesn’t have an interrupt or a purge, and should be given one (water pet is terrible). Low point purges should be accessible to all classes, Necromancer has a purge but no one will be using necro as an off soul given how weak it is.

    Replace Elemental Armor with a purge, 44 points in (exactly the same point as Marksman). Elemental Armor is useless anyway so it won’t make a difference in PvE.

    Warlock

    Neddra's Essence - 80% damage reduction for 7s.

    I'm unsure why a dps soul has the second most powerful damage mitigation CD in the game, im not suggesting removing this ability (though in a perfect world, it would be - no other class has damage mitigation CD’s in their dps souls, mages have 3 - Planar Shield in Harb and 11 points into Mystic Archer has Paths Rewritten) so nerfing the CD to 40/50% would suffice. Or nerfing it down 50%, making it a dodge increase and tag it with a run speed buff, like other classes have.


    Warrior
    Warlord / Paragon

    Reduce L Ready Postures bonus to A Quick Death to 200% (down from 300%), this leaves Warlord, whilst this might seem a drastic change, average AQD procs hit for 80-90k (non-crit), with the difference it puts them down to 60-70k hits (non-crits), this would be a good start for Warlord and could be lowered further if needed.


    Reduce the L Sergeant's Order damage bonus to players to 20% (down from 30%) - This will help with Paragons burst damage.


    Tempest

    Remove the PvP reductions previously put onto Charged Pulse, Arc and Double Pulse

    Give Tempest a Purge. Warriors do not have a purge in any of their dps souls, makes sense to put it into their Ranged ST soul.


    Primalist
    Also needs to be given a purge in one of its ranged Souls.

    Predator

    Scent of Blood - This needs to be fixed. In its current state it is proccing other procs, this should not be the case, procs should not proc other procs, this has been Rifts rule since Beta, but for some reason this has been allowed to stay broken since Predator has been on PTS.

    Primal Lord

    Add a 30% pvp reduction to Threshers Maw

    Or, alternatively, don’t allow Primal Avatar: Wind Serpent to affect non-dervish souls.

    Farseer

    This soul is probably on par (if not higher) that Tactician healing pre-nerf. But, the only reason for this is the two outlying abilities, L Fortunes Protection and Impending Fate. The rest of the soul in PvP is underwhelming.

    Try reducing Fortunes Protection bonus with Impending Fate to 200% in PvP (down from 400% - Leave Insight to have the 400% increase), this would be perfect to test on PTS before pushing to live.

    I was trying to leave healing souls out of this, but Farseer is definitely in need of some fine tuning.

    Vulcanist

    Imo, the Ethereal Beam nerf was too drastic. 50% was way too much of a nerf in PvP, try 40%.



    QoL changes.


    Unbreakable Stuns and CC’s that ignore immunities need to go. These abilities have been broken for way too long.

    Stun Grenade - 30 points into Sab, lasts 4 seconds and completely ignores all immunities and can’t be broken free from.

    Legendary Flashbang - 0 points into Sab, ignores immunities but can be broken free from.

    Shadow Lash - 0 points into Shadeborn, pull that ignores immunities.

    Legendary Strangulate - 4 points into Shadeborn, ignores immunities but can be broken free from.

    Legendary Sergeant's Order - 0 points into Warlord, ignores immunities but can be broken free from.

    Primal Fear - 5 points into Predator, ignores immunities but can be broken free from.


    If you feel like I missed something or have constructive feedback, i'd love to hear it. If you're just replying because I mentioned your class and you're upset, don't bother <3


    Small note - Mystic Archer isn't on here atm because it's not hit live yet, but when it does im sure it will make the list.

    Think you may have forgoten about how strong warchanter is if played well,there are very few good ones playing atm so it seems i am going to dust of my warrior to prove my point it is at the same lv as farseer and frost when you know wht you are doing belive me,it is well capable of 20 to 30k sustained hps in the right hands and extremly dificult to kill.
    Last edited by bollesti; 10-16-2017 at 08:40 PM.

  4. #4
    RIFT Guide Writer Maltie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bollesti View Post
    Think you may have forgoten about how strong warchanter is if played well,there are very few good ones playing atm so it seems i am going to dust of my warrior to prove my point it is at the same lv as farseer and frost when you know wht you are doing belive me,it is well capable of 20 to 30k sustained hps in the right hands and extremly dificult to kill.
    Im aware, Warchanter isn't on here atm for the same reason FK isn't on here, its easier to know how much Healing needs to be scaled down after dps have been nerfed, if these changes go through both FK and Warchanter will need changes to account for the lower dps, but until that happens its hard to know how much these specs need to be tuned down.

    Farseer is on here because its obviously overtuned in PvP
    Nixia@Greybriar]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruzito View Post
    its actually 4 buttons. Let me know when you learn how to rogue

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple Semiso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bollesti View Post
    Think you may have forgoten about how strong warchanter is if played well,there are very few good ones playing atm so it seems i am going to dust of my warrior to prove my point it is at the same lv as farseer and frost when you know wht you are doing belive me,it is well capable of 20 to 30k sustained hps in the right hands and extremly dificult to kill.
    When it comes to them performing, yea they are beasts but they are very easy killable, especially if you are a ranged class with purges. If you see them have the buff ''Deep breath'' you know you have to purge them because they cant afford to re-apply all their buffs again because of the energy cost and how little time they got to regenerate. You could easily kill them as Inq, broken one shot predator, MM, bladedancer, warlord, paragon, warlock (too ez) and assassin, just gotta do it in the right moment.

    Frostkeepers are a bit different story.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched bollesti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semiso View Post
    When it comes to them performing, yea they are beasts but they are very easy killable, especially if you are a ranged class with purges. If you see them have the buff ''Deep breath'' you know you have to purge them because they cant afford to re-apply all their buffs again because of the energy cost and how little time they got to regenerate. You could easily kill them as Inq, broken one shot predator, MM, bladedancer, warlord, paragon, warlock (too ez) and assassin, just gotta do it in the right moment.

    Frostkeepers are a bit different story.
    If i am standing still not use any consumables like energy pot or panacea or pvp trinket or any of the vast selection of items we have at our disposal then yes its perfecly possible to bring them down,the problem is they are not dummys,and a big part of beeing a good pvp healer is movement skills,as BD i have zero problems in killing any of the actual healers if they dont move LoL.

    P.s. Good luck today kid.
    Last edited by bollesti; 10-16-2017 at 09:10 PM.

  7. #7
    Plane Touched bollesti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maltie View Post
    Im aware, Warchanter isn't on here atm for the same reason FK isn't on here, its easier to know how much Healing needs to be scaled down after dps have been nerfed, if these changes go through both FK and Warchanter will need changes to account for the lower dps, but until that happens its hard to know how much these specs need to be tuned down.

    Farseer is on here because its obviously overtuned in PvP
    Agreed....WHT THE HELL YOU DOING UP AT THIS TIME.?go sleep.

  8. #8
    Sword of Telara Orochan's Avatar
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    They need to fix scent of blood followed by all the broken CC's. That should literally be the first thing they do BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE PLEASE TRION WHY ARE WE DEALING WITH THIS SO FAR INTO THE XPAC?!?!!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?

    OP can you please put the broken abilities first??? Those aren't QoL improvements, they are literally changes that need to be made because those abilities are BROKEN. I.E they are not following natural game mechanics and thus providing a clear and unfair advantage.
    Last edited by Orochan; 10-16-2017 at 09:54 PM.
    Internet 101 : If anyone disagrees with you, they must be angry that you're right.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple Semiso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orochan View Post
    They need to fix scent of blood followed by all the broken CC's. That should literally be the first thing they do BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE PLEASE TRION WHY ARE WE DEALING WITH THIS SO FAR INTO THE XPAC?!?!!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?

    OP can you please put the broken abilities first??? Those aren't QoL improvements, they are literally changes that need to be made because those abilities are BROKEN. I.E they are not following natural game mechanics and thus providing a clear and unfair advantage.
    The only one that should be colored red is Stun grenade. im seeing these Days multiple rogues using that ability just to **** around. Worst case scenario is if you have a rogue using Stun grenade and is coordinating with Another rogue using Planar variation as MM.........then 8 people are f***ed

  10. #10
    Shadowlander
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    Either Stun Grenade needs to be modified where it is not usable at all in PVP (which would be easier than trying to fix it -- as it seems to have been an issue for some time) or it actually needs to be purgeable. With dual rogues running with this ability and a/several warlock(s), it can cripple teams. I'm not asking for words to be put in my mouth here, either. It is broken where PVP is concerned.

    As for Primal Avatar: Drake. While I agree that NO PROCS (Ethereal Meditation, Scent of Blood, ect) should proc it regardless of circumstance, it may be more beneficial to simply make the next 20 VULCANIST abilities proc the Drake, as it is a Vulcanist top-tier ability. It may also encourage more players to utilize this soul, as the EB nerf crippled its output. ~50% (although, based on several parses, I'd estimate closer to 68%) crippled the ability. It requires a full 31 points, and it was rendered null by the reduction.

    I have also noticed with Primal Avatar: Drake that abilities don't really seem to proc any of its damage in PVP. Most of the Drake's damage seems to be dependant on other ability's procs versus actual damaging attacks. It seems the ability, overall, is in a strange state. When I have time, I will include combat logs and parses that will hopefully show this more accurately.

    As far as Bladedancers are concerned, Blade and Soul Parity needs to be accurately altered for PVP. A 25% ignore would be much more viable considering the dances are easily maintained through other abilities (Twin Cleave, Empyrean Bolt). With considerable utility, I imagine this would drop 98k hits to around ~30k, which may not seem like anything of significance, but the main abilities utilized with this soul are able to be cast incredibly frequently. This would also alter the incessantly high TTK, as well.

    I disagree that Thresher's Maw needs to be altered. As previously mentioned, it is the primary damage in that particular build as many Primalists do not utilize Hawk's Wrath. With TTK as is, removing the Wind Serpent's effect on melee abilities would destroy Primalists in Warfronts. Primalists lack the utility of all other melee souls, and wearing leather doesn't help. There is one root in the Primal Lord tree -- pairing them headon with plate wearers, or even other leather wearers (rogues), would likely be detrimental. Again, there are no full Predators and, perhaps, one Primal Lord for a reason. I will say, however, if a reduction was to be done -- it should be minimal. The Wind Serpent should remain as-is. Blindside damage in the Predator line was already reduced in damage -- which is why a large portion of the community has drifted into the Drake spec. IMO, that should be of higher priority than any other Primalist tree.

    Farseer can be toned down, but it isn't as incredibly overpowered as it seems. Personally, I believe a reduction to 200% in PVP would be equivalent to the 50% reduction of Ethereal Beam.

    There is no need for Warlocks to have an 80% damage reduction with such a long-lasting buff. With little effort, they can effectively deteriorate a group of people. Dark Touch applies two other dots with no CD. Pair that with Conflux and the occasional Death's Door and it becomes a bit ridiculous. I believe Conflux should affect the Warlock's primary target only, especially considering DT's mastery and its 30s CD.

    Great post. Thank you.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Lulutala's Avatar
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    That's a nice list, pretty much everything covered but when this is the state of pvp in Rift.

    Balance in Rift PvP-lol-que.jpg

    What do you think are the chances even 1/3 of the stuff is looked at?

    (That's solo que btw)
    Harrisonford

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulutala View Post
    That's a nice list, pretty much everything covered but when this is the state of pvp in Rift.

    Attachment 32196

    What do you think are the chances even 1/3 of the stuff is looked at?

    (That's solo que btw)
    What level?

  13. #13
    Plane Touched Rifleman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bollesti View Post
    Think you may have forgoten about how strong warchanter is if played well,there are very few good ones playing atm so it seems i am going to dust of my warrior to prove my point it is at the same lv as farseer and frost when you know wht you are doing belive me,it is well capable of 20 to 30k sustained hps in the right hands and extremly dificult to kill.


    "Stand Tall" should become unpurgable once the Warchanter heals are nerfed. Atm you can just purge that buff and shut down a WC.

    You are welcome -- Rifle.
    Last edited by Rifleman; 10-17-2017 at 07:05 AM.

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple Semiso's Avatar
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    I disagree that Thresher's Maw needs to be altered. As previously mentioned, it is the primary damage in that particular build as many Primalists do not utilize Hawk's Wrath. With TTK as is, removing the Wind Serpent's effect on melee abilities would destroy Primalists in Warfronts. Primalists lack the utility of all other melee souls, and wearing leather doesn't help. There is one root in the Primal Lord tree -- pairing them headon with plate wearers, or even other leather wearers (rogues), would likely be detrimental. Again, there are no full Predators and, perhaps, one Primal Lord for a reason. I will say, however, if a reduction was to be done -- it should be minimal. The Wind Serpent should remain as-is. Blindside damage in the Predator line was already reduced in damage -- which is why a large portion of the community has drifted into the Drake spec. IMO, that should be of higher priority than any other Primalist tree.
    First of all, thresher maw hitting +150k dmg in pvp is exactly as if a warrior was spamming AQD in pvp, except thresher maw is much worse because of the following:
    • Can be cast 35m away
    • Doesn't require any typical RNG like warlord does to do that sort of high dmg (except crit chance)
    • Fresh lvl 70s can do devastating dmg without having sexy pvp gear

    Just because Thresher maw is the only ability that is strong in a spec doesn't mean it shouldn't stay the same, its game breaking. Same goes for warlord (except its more merciful).


    Blindside damage in the Predator line was already reduced in damage -- which is why a large portion of the community has drifted into the Drake spec
    Umm...........no.............Blindside and Sudden strike barely got nerfed back then. Still doing 60-80k dmg with them both with barely any upgraded frags or pvp essences.

    With TTK as is, removing the Wind Serpent's effect on melee abilities would destroy Primalists in Warfronts
    Not really, 31 primalord are doing alright, where you can sustain about 25-30k dps.

    Farseer can be toned down, but it isn't as incredibly overpowered as it seems. Personally, I believe a reduction to 200% in PVP would be equivalent to the 50% reduction of Ethereal Beam.
    I mean fortune protection does have a 10 sec cooldown and the heals it does (along with impending fate) is almost enough to sustain the entire raid until its back up again to do Another cycle.
    Last edited by Semiso; 10-17-2017 at 07:28 AM.

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Lulutala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jegodinn View Post
    What level?

    Level 70.
    Harrisonford

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