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Thread: Rogues killing faster than the duration of their own cc's

  1. #16
    Soulwalker Luella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrippyC View Post
    After playing Warlord and Bladedancer, the difference is night and day. Compared to bladedancer, Warlords got it easy. While warlord isn't quite up there with consistant damage, it has far more utility. Multiple charges, a snare, pulls, survivability, NPTD, and is super simple to play if melee is no problem for you. Bladedancers have it tough with only one charge and a stun and debilitate. It takes skill to master the art of Bladedancer, something I've been really enjoying lately since I've made a rogue nearly a month ago. But a Bladedancer is only as good as the HEALER pocketing it. Without the lovely Faynee healing Ballz/Hideinstealh, he's not quite so intimidating by himself(no offense bud). But with a viable healer, BD is up there with being the most deadly spec in pvp. It's the player, not the spec.

    Warrior for life ;)

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    Following this logic, everything is only as good as the pockethealer? Or does this apply only to bladedancers? If so, I doubt that. Good players are still good whether they have pocket healers or not. And reverse, good healers are still good whether they have backup dps or not. Talking about bladedancer, its obviously about the player, as you say, otherwise there would be multiple dangerous bds in pvp. But there arent many.In fact maybe 2 Even so I see almost every 2nd warlord to crit over 150k or 200k. With still bugged cc, which ignores immunity.

    Overall I dont think warriors should cry in this sutation. Except for mages and clerics, everything is mostly broken Pointless to cry about that "oh my class is a bit less broken, hits only for 140k" Also AVGVSTVS you're saying warlord is hard to play.Idk about that but please, work for that 140-220k crit Not everything has to be as dumb as prima specs

  2. #17
    Plane Touched AVGVSTVS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luella View Post
    Following this logic, everything is only as good as the pockethealer? Or does this apply only to bladedancers? If so, I doubt that. Good players are still good whether they have pocket healers or not. And reverse, good healers are still good whether they have backup dps or not. Talking about bladedancer, its obviously about the player, as you say, otherwise there would be multiple dangerous bds in pvp. But there arent many.In fact maybe 2 Even so I see almost every 2nd warlord to crit over 150k or 200k. With still bugged cc, which ignores immunity.

    Overall I dont think warriors should cry in this sutation. Except for mages and clerics, everything is mostly broken Pointless to cry about that "oh my class is a bit less broken, hits only for 140k" Also AVGVSTVS you're saying warlord is hard to play.Idk about that but please, work for that 140-220k crit Not everything has to be as dumb as prima specs
    AQD is not hitting for 220k for god sakes.

  3. #18
    Rift Disciple Semiso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVGVSTVS View Post
    AQD is not hitting for 220k for god sakes.
    Prove it, cuz theoratically it can be done if you have +9k cp and +50k AP, i can name few warriors that has both stats and has done +220k..................

  4. #19
    Plane Touched AVGVSTVS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semiso View Post
    Prove it, cuz theoratically it can be done if you have +9k cp and +50k AP, i can name few warriors that has both stats and has done +220k..................
    You prove it. if it were criting for 200k+ consistently it would be top 50 #1 like rogue is every single week.

    don't ask me to prove it, if it's happening so much you people are the one making the claim.

    and btw you're the one walking around with 100-150k+ ranged threshers maw spec not even lvl 70 yet and you wanna talk about how melee should do less.

    Btw here is a pic of a 200k+ ranged threshers maw.

    https://tinyurl.com/Rangedthreshers

    and im lvl 70 nearly fully geared there and still 200k+
    Last edited by AVGVSTVS; 10-03-2017 at 05:23 AM.

  5. #20
    Plane Touched AVGVSTVS's Avatar
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    310k dmg before the cc was over.

    that's 310k dmg not including other buffs in 5 strikes.
    https://tinyurl.com/bdnuke2

    really this also goes back to TTK and my rule of thumb trion the duration of CC's is longer than the TTK
    Last edited by AVGVSTVS; 10-04-2017 at 01:04 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVGVSTVS View Post
    310k dmg before the cc was over.

    that's 310k dmg not including other buffs in 5 strikes.
    https://tinyurl.com/bdnuke2

    really this also goes back to TTK and my rule of thumb trion the duration of CC's is longer than the TTK
    My lord, I have never seen anything so OP. A primalist might do 300k in a GCD, but then they are done. A BD does that damage over a period 5x as long!

    What other class can output that type of damage? Plus, most of them would have to be ranged.

    I say BD is the next Ranger and it is nerfing time.
    !

  7. #22
    Plane Touched AVGVSTVS's Avatar
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    i'd feel safe assuming those OP specs on prima will be nerfed.

    but my confidence in trion for balancing rogues BD's 100% armor ignore and 100% crit rate buff is low.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVGVSTVS View Post
    i'd feel safe assuming those OP specs on prima will be nerfed.

    but my confidence in trion for balancing rogues BD's 100% armor ignore and 100% crit rate buff is low.
    I have to say, I am left with some questions about this whole line of thought.
    • Do you feel that 5 seconds is too low of a TTK for a mobile melee class? Even relative to the across the board TTK in the game right now?
    • Do you want other classes with a similar or lower TTK nerfed as well, as opposed to a global TTK reduction?
    • Are you concerned about armor penetration in particular for some reason?
    • Do you want tank souls to be more survivable in PvP? Builds that can easily spec into tank offsouls to have an edge?
    !

  9. #24
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    Regardless of any other complaints for other specs on this thread addressing Bladedancers particularly (no idea how it went from BD to Warlord and Primalist), a 100% armor ignore paired with a 50% increase in critical damage and 50% critical rate is not feasible in PVP. When paired with Empyrean Bolt of Tactician off-soul and proper management (if that) these dances can be maintained constantly. If you don't think that is slightly off in regards to the overall aspect of PVP, then you probably play a rogue.

    Rogues need all of their utility, sure. But the simple fact is that no soul should have a constant 100% armor ignore buff in Warfronts. I don't play rogue, but out of curiousity, I dusted off my 68 Frenetic gear rogue and made her a BD. I ran through 5-6 people constantly. Top damage and KBs were easy and there was little that needed to be done outside of a macro and a quick smash of Twin Cleave was all that was necessary. My builders (Precision and Binary) hit anywhere from 78-98k. This was pretty much constant critical hits given the increase on rate through the dances. One Binary and one Precision shaved off 3/4 of most players' health. Move on to the next.

    Primalists do hit hard, but the cool thing is that you can simply LoS them. If that's too hard to do, then I don't really know what to say there to help you. Warriors can be stunned in preparation of A Quick Derp, and that tends to be effective. You cannot outrun a BD, and in the proper moment you cannot stun them. One binary, two precision, and you're dead. Good luck!
    Last edited by Sanctumi; 10-08-2017 at 10:27 AM.

  10. #25
    Plane Touched bollesti's Avatar
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    There is only one player that is of concern and the only reason os that he runs with a pocket healer when using BD and not any healer ballz only runs with those kind of healers that are extremely skilled and hard to kill so most of the kbs he get are players trying to kill his healer and BD with a healer is what everyone sees i personaly dont run that much because i never ever do duos or pms its not fair for my team that i hog one much needed healer just for myself leaving the rest of my team handicaped and when i get a good kb count i like to know it was skill, dont mean ballz not skilled this player is very good and is to be respected, i have seen him play with and without heals and the fact is that without a healer he is skilled but not more then many i know.....so the point is if you see a player in BD wrecking everything in his/her way look for the healer and bd is in deep @$#.
    Last edited by bollesti; 10-09-2017 at 08:09 AM.

  11. #26
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    These are two screenshots from a Library. They are both Precision strike, but I achieved a 100% crit rate on 6 hits and a 90% crit rate out of 10. I have seen, as previously stated, my Precision Strike crit, consecutively, for around 98k. In two hits, I've done almost 200k damage and can rinse and repeat as much as I'd like.

    Pocket heals, or not, the point still stands. With the immunity and a speed boost, I don't really need a healer to get top KBs.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Rogues killing faster than the duration of their own cc's-herpbd.jpg  
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    Last edited by Sanctumi; 10-08-2017 at 09:33 PM.

  12. #27
    Plane Touched bollesti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanctumi View Post
    These are two screenshots from a Library. They are both Precision strike, but I achieved a 100% crit rate on 6 hits and a 90% crit rate out of 10. I have seen, as previously stated, my Precision Strike crit, consecutively, for around 98k. In two hits, I've done almost 200k damage and can rinse and repeat as much as I'd like.

    Pocket heals, or not, the point still stands. With the immunity and a speed boost, I don't really need a healer to get top KBs.
    One thing is top kbs i do it all the time in sin mm or bd but another is 60-0 kbs and that only ballz does at least in NA.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bollesti View Post
    One thing is top kbs i do it all the time in sin mm or bd but another is 60-0 kbs and that only ballz does at least in NA.
    Which is all fine and well, but the point is there's a 100% armor ignore, 50% critical damage and 50% critical chance for BDs with a constant uptime. No one can outrun me, or stun me for the duration of my immunity. Builders are critting for almost 100k. You can't LoS me, because I can just catch you. You can't mount up, because I can just stealth, stun you and blow my CDs. A full armor ignore in PVP is ridiculous. Ignoring 200k armor is ridiculous, no matter how you look at it.

    It needs to be toned down, that's all people are saying.

  14. #29
    General of Telara aileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanctumi View Post
    Which is all fine and well, but the point is there's a 100% armor ignore, 50% critical damage and 50% critical chance for BDs with a constant uptime. No one can outrun me, or stun me for the duration of my immunity. Builders are critting for almost 100k. You can't LoS me, because I can just catch you. You can't mount up, because I can just stealth, stun you and blow my CDs. A full armor ignore in PVP is ridiculous. Ignoring 200k armor is ridiculous, no matter how you look at it.

    It needs to be toned down, that's all people are saying.
    Dances are purgeable and you can kite bladedancers easily, yes they have gap closer but there is still multiple people on that warfront situation, not saying its damage shouldnt be balanced but seeing a warlord playing warrior talking about BD is ridicilious not to mention BD with that armor pen and crit chance sucks on pve unlike warlord which is apperantly top dps spec on pve enviroment as well and like I said its easy to kill BDs and yes I'm rogue and I don't play BD on pvp, yet I can kite and kill them like crazy.
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    Rift Disciple Lulutala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aileen View Post
    Dances are purgeable
    When i was playing BD, i can count on one hand the amount of times my dances were purged off. The only time it came off was when a cabalist spammed purge. If i had bothered to use purge buffers it would happen even less.

    Quote Originally Posted by aileen View Post
    not saying its damage shouldnt be balanced but seeing a warlord playing warrior talking about BD is ridicilious not to mention BD with that armor pen and crit chance sucks on pve unlike warlord which is apperantly top dps spec on pve enviroment as well
    That crit chance and armor penetration might not be as valuable in a raid setting, but having a 70-90% crit rate on your abilities that take at least 1/4 of your hp at a time in pvp is massive. Properly geared rogues can take 70-100k almost every single gcd.


    Quote Originally Posted by aileen View Post
    and like I said its easy to kill BDs and yes I'm rogue and I don't play BD on pvp, yet I can kite and kill them like crazy.
    It's pretty easy to kill stuff in a soul like MM which is almost perfectly designed for pvp. 100% mobility, passive movement speed buffs, purge, root, int with a cc, knockbacks. Other callings don't half these tools in dealing with a melee spec chasing you.
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