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Thread: Thoughts from a returning player

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple catpaw's Avatar
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    Default Thoughts from a returning player

    I recently came back to check out the new expansion (I quit during Nightmare Tide) and am liking the new zones and PvE aspect so far, however, having some major issues after trying a few Warfronts...

    1. Time to kill is way too low, you literally go from full to dead in 3 seconds or less. It seems like it's hardly skill based but more like, who can zerg with more warriors to burst everyone down. Which brings me to my second point:

    2. Has Warlord been this broken the whole expansion? One of their skills, I'm assuming it's some sort of execute, crits me for 100k. That's half my health pool. When you look at the scoreboard at the end of a WF, it's all warriors and a power gap before maybe some mages and primalists.

    I've come back and leveled a rogue from zero to near max now and, it's just... not fun? In PvP, on any of the specs I tried. Granted I haven't been around for over a year so maybe I'm using suboptimal builds but, still, every spec I tried just preformed really badly compared to the warrior dps and mage healers. I'm not necessarily going to quit the game, I'll probably stick around for some PvE, but at this point it kind of seems like there's no point in even queueing into WFs if you're not a warrior or mage healer, and I don't really want to feel like I have to level a specific class to even be remotely viable.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Gilgad's Avatar
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    Warriors have been broken for a long time, however rarely seem to get touched.

    It's not even the ease and damage but they do, but also the fact that they're also literally semi-tanks and have absurd mitigation as well.

    Even if warlord gets balanced, paragon is no better, only slightly behind warlord. The reign of [4.1] was whoever has the most paragons win for the longest time. Now it's basically whoever has the most warlords win (with the exception of high tier healers balancing the warfronts or a highly skilled player on the other team).

    There are many broken specs, for example.

    B - Exists still
    I - Was balanced in the following patch & is not OP in my opinon.
    S - Spec was deleted/removed/altered/no longer exists.

    If the spec is in the reign, that means it was basically equal to the top performing specs.

    [4.0] - Reign of Bladedancer, Aftershocker, Tactician, Frostkeeper, Shaman, Riftblade, Elementalist Justicar Cabalist.

    [4.1] - Reign of Bladedancer, Assassin, Harbinger, Paragon, Cabalist, Bug Abusing Vulcanist (Pretty much only I did this)

    [4.2] - Reign of Predator, Vulcanist, Farseer, Derv/Pred, Warlord.

    As you can see from the above, even if Predator, Farseer, Derv/Pred and Warlord were all nerfed, you will still have overperforming specs sitting on the shelf previously, such as:

    Bladedancer, Assassin, Harbinger, Paragon, Cabalist.

    It's just that the specs in 4.2 are more OP then the previous tier OP specs. Shame really.
    Last edited by Gilgad; 09-17-2017 at 04:59 AM.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker Luella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catpaw View Post
    I recently came back to check out the new expansion (I quit during Nightmare Tide) and am liking the new zones and PvE aspect so far, however, having some major issues after trying a few Warfronts...

    1. Time to kill is way too low, you literally go from full to dead in 3 seconds or less. It seems like it's hardly skill based but more like, who can zerg with more warriors to burst everyone down. Which brings me to my second point:

    2. Has Warlord been this broken the whole expansion? One of their skills, I'm assuming it's some sort of execute, crits me for 100k. That's half my health pool. When you look at the scoreboard at the end of a WF, it's all warriors and a power gap before maybe some mages and primalists.

    I've come back and leveled a rogue from zero to near max now and, it's just... not fun? In PvP, on any of the specs I tried. Granted I haven't been around for over a year so maybe I'm using suboptimal builds but, still, every spec I tried just preformed really badly compared to the warrior dps and mage healers. I'm not necessarily going to quit the game, I'll probably stick around for some PvE, but at this point it kind of seems like there's no point in even queueing into WFs if you're not a warrior or mage healer, and I don't really want to feel like I have to level a specific class to even be remotely viable.
    I can aggree with all of this sadly. Time to kill is super low. Primas, bds, warlords are insane. Its not really a nice time to play healer. Only fks, wcs and farseers are viable atm. Which is kinda sad considering how many options we should have Its good tho you came back after trion nerfed Ebeam, lucky you It was even worse

  4. #4
    Plane Touched AVGVSTVS's Avatar
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    I'm not sure i understand why everything other than a non stealthing melee should hit 100k.
    the warriors only attributes is tanky/dps even that being said you have ranged dots that tick on you for near 100k. You can be out of combat for a 30 secs be on life support with blood thirsty proc and a damn ranged dot kills you 18 years later.

    playing a warrior if anything makes you frustrated.

    Rogues can stealth for as long as they want and make easy work 1v1 of a warrior by trions design.

    Primas are still hitting near 200k from one ranged attack with threshers maw. if warrior doesn't hit 100k in melee i dont get what the point is.

    with full lvl 15 pvp frags i topped out at about 175k AQD in melee. whilst primas were hitting near 250k from ranged.

    warrior melee is harder it's fine where it is. if you disagree go play it.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVGVSTVS View Post
    snip
    Tresher Maw isn't ranged... (or is it? )
    And while it's still over the top, the difference is, you have some set up to do to use it. They don't don't just run into a fight and bam, 150k! like warlord does a lot ( unless they set up on someone else, but then it's a group fight, still need some time to get there).

    As for the thread...
    Warriors might look good now because primalist just got nerfed. But all specs can shine (except cleric, because **** clerics I guess) and personally my best games have been on rogue.

    As for previous patches, I think Harbinger of whatever previous patch was even more broken.

    Balance will never be perfect, but all callings have broken specs and good players playing these specs are usually top of their WF.

    If you ('general' use of 'you', not talking about the OP) score 4k-7d in a wf don't blame other classes, like many do. Because other players playing on YOUR class scored 30-2 at some point, facing the same challenges of other callings being more broken and all that.

    If you make 30kb but feel bad because on a more broken calling you would've scored 40 sure, whatever. But for 1 player like that, there's 100 who don't even play for 1:1 and picture they'd magically kill 30 players a warfront if they were on a different calling.

    Bottom line, Yes, there's a lot of broken specs, and they're possibly more broken than the average FOTM... But most/all callings have those, and if you play on such broken spec, and know what the hell you're doing, you should do fine, even if you're not the most broken of the broken specs.

    There's rogues, warriors and primalists who obliterate everything in WFs. Mages, a bit less since warlock nerfs and harbinger (plus it was never THAT popular), and cleric, well, they don't do ****... But still, there's 3 out of 5 callings who constantly compete for the top spot, and the other 2, while inferior, still often top WFs because most players suck anyway.

    Anyway, as others said : Good thing you came now and not few days before, because primalist was way more broken than warlord. They just fixed it. Balanced (especially pvp balance) takes a while, and it's unlikely to change... That's about the stance right now.
    Take it or leave it I guess.

  6. #6
    Champion sirdiggby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVGVSTVS View Post
    I'm not sure i understand why everything other than a non stealthing melee should hit 100k.
    the warriors only attributes is tanky/dps even that being said you have ranged dots that tick on you for near 100k. You can be out of combat for a 30 secs be on life support with blood thirsty proc and a damn ranged dot kills you 18 years later.
    .
    lol so you have a dot hitting you for 100k(lets say all for the sake of argument), yet you last 30 secs to 18years? just how much hp do you have?, sounds like your spec is the one that is more broken.

    on a serious note. lock is bad but its not as dangerous as WL with smart players who keep cleanse pots/healers that cleanse. i;ve yet so to any warlock reach the kills the WL are reaching.

    warlock is a cooldown hero, warlord is not. AQD has no cd its literally their top damage abilty which is thrown in a simple spam macro.

  7. #7
    Plane Touched AVGVSTVS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirdiggby View Post
    lol so you have a dot hitting you for 100k(lets say all for the sake of argument), yet you last 30 secs to 18years? just how much hp do you have?, sounds like your spec is the one that is more broken.

    on a serious note. lock is bad but its not as dangerous as WL with smart players who keep cleanse pots/healers that cleanse. i;ve yet so to any warlock reach the kills the WL are reaching.

    warlock is a cooldown hero, warlord is not. AQD has no cd its literally their top damage abilty which is thrown in a simple spam macro.
    Again. I mean the concept of ultra pure melee alludes this whole entire community. the reality of auto following ranged spam with no collision detection doesn't ring a bell. it just doesn't occur to you its beyond space and time for you.

  8. #8
    Champion sirdiggby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVGVSTVS View Post
    Again. I mean the concept of ultra pure melee alludes this whole entire community. the reality of auto following ranged spam with no collision detection doesn't ring a bell. it just doesn't occur to you its beyond space and time for you.
    people like you like to overblow the whole melee thing, on maps like garden or chamber its mostly irrelevant. WL also takes the least amount of damage so its easier to heal as well, so good healers turn wls into unstopable walls. good players were able to play melee and perform well without being as tough and easy to play as warlord is, all those shamans that no longer play.

    you might have a point if kiting really existed in this game anymore. you prob play badly like so other wars and dont know when to disengage and back off.

    also pretty sure we all remember unstopable dots following you everywhere, you seem to be the only one that forgot reaver the much better warlock that existed there for quite a while.

    its ok though your only a warrior wouldnt expect you to know your own class.

  9. #9
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    People still complain about warlocks? Better nerf the dot spread to 1 target.
    People complaining about balance really need to play all specs to see what it's like.

    Warlock's damage is laughable outside of conflux, and even with conflux you'll still get out DPS'ed unless you got that 80% resist thingy. And in zerg v zerg spreading dots isn't even as good as it was, unless they got no heals.

    And 1v1'ing without conflux is a joke. You barely scratched your opponent by the time you're dead.

    But don't take my word for it, just try it. Make a mage, go play a WF as warlock and try to take down one of the top warriors in the game. Or even just an OK warrior. Good luck.
    Last edited by somerandomnamee; 09-20-2017 at 10:03 AM.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple catpaw's Avatar
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    The intention of this thread wasn't really to call out a specific class or soul, like I said I'm recently returning so pointing out Warlord was just an example from my experience in a very limited number of matches. The point was more that TTK is super low and class balance seems poor, which it seems you guys don't really disagree with.

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