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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Pvp / pve / both. Anyone ever polled this?

  1. #46
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    Totally agree.
    They could make pvp massively better with a fraction of the dev time that levelling zones and new raids need.
    Pvp development is comparitively inexpensive.. and we do spend money! Im happy to pay a sub for pvp. Im happy to buy rex instead of grinding out money in game. Etc..
    Last edited by Horgrym; 06-25-2017 at 05:22 AM.
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  2. #47
    General of Telara Sheo's Avatar
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    I also miss CQ, I remember many many nice raids, skirmishes, or even solo/duo hunting back in SL times. And arguably one of the best pvp time was for me.
    What we have now:
    zerg vs zerg
    one shooting, "FPS pvp" in an MMO
    broken bolstering
    broken/bugged DR and CC
    army of broken/bugged abilities
    unbalanced classes
    broken matchmaking due still ELO based with one sided roflstomps. 2vs10 bgs literally, due clueless pugs (doesn't matter if I receive or if I give NO fun whatsoever!)
    infrequent class update patches. (this is problem for PVE too!)

    Anyone telling pvp players not paying enough for trion is a liar. I have all minion slot unlocked both region, plenty of wardrobes/other fluff items (due not sharing) I even bought power packs, (what I think completely rip off for a paid expansion, but whatever, I WANT Rift to survive and get back its former glory, so I PAY) I`m still patron. After all these years.

    Rift need more class dev! This is the most important for both pve and pvp. Everyone unsatisfied due class unbalance. This should be first priority. And we need more frequent class patches, bug fixes! Years old bugs and still persist!
    Sheona/Faynee <VANEN> , <Apotheosys>

  3. #48
    Shadowlander Koldir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xlavius View Post
    I would even tolerate ingame advertising if it would result in PVP being looked at seriously due to gained resources. Heck, I would welcome it with open arms. Come on, put some coca-cola and Red-Bull billboards in a arena-style WF! ...Or just some popup...
    hehehe me too ! I wouldn't mind carrying some sort of ad on the cloack either !

    All jokes aside , when rift set the tone to fair f2p, introduced rex purchasable through ingame currency, and near top tier gear purchasable through rex, it was a smart idea at the time but in hindsight, also a very risky step as bigger and more experienced companies had failed at implementing such systems since it short cut the game, and depleted the fun of putting in effort to build up your character . Ironically, when Trion opened up contents it had spend money and time developing to everyone at no up front cost, it gave many players a negative impression of rift's f2p model even-though it was actually a very generous gesture. I imagine Trion is probably alot more cautious in making any changes that would effect their f2p model after that .

    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse View Post
    Cue the vast majority of players who would decry the advent of advertising in sacred game spaces. I've worked around and with games that have experimented with in-game sponsored ads. it has not worked well to date... I don't think you'll see it come to RIFT, but who knows what the future will hold while we're busy telling kids to get off our lawns. =)
    As the line between a pc and a tablet blurs day by day, perhaps we could take notes from in game advertising methods that had been proven successful in mobile games? One of Crowdstar's title for instance, seem to be working quite well on their target audience .

    All in all, I agree with alot of the things that had been said in this thread, and I can see ppl working behind the scenes at Trion actually do listen to the player-base since many things had changed and improved through out the years. But sometimes, if those that view rift purely as a business happen to be the ones that can make the decision feel it's cheaper and more profitable to make new games rather than to pour in more resource in an existing game in hopes of making it better ( if the game doesn't bring in more money, even if the players enjoy it more, sadly it's not better to them), they will make the devs do just that, and only put in minimum effort to keep the game alive for as long as it remains profitable, or simply sell the title/spin it off .

    Rift has been a great retreat from the chaos in daily life, I wish rift continue to thrive. It's probably not realistic to expect all the things pvp players want, to be implemented in a short period of time at this point, and I do agree if rift changed the f2p model a bit, the pvp community could be quite a substantial patron base, since anything that fuels the competitiveness in players will always bring in big $$ . If you look at the top grossing chart of mobile games, almost all of them are pvp games, 2 of which are basically the same game just with a modern skin and time period setting, from the same mother company under different names.

    Perhaps, instead of giving players the option of pay to short cut the game( rex-> credit->gear), make it an option to enhance their experience while playing instead. Take lvl bolstering for example since there seem to be an influx of sub 70 players in wfs during summer break : Instead of bolstering everyone to max lvl with same stats that are way below geared max lvl players', introduce a bolstering potion, which gives the player using it , and all other sub max lvl players on his/her team a stack-able buff that multiplies in effect , and at max effect, it will buff all the sub 70 players to the same stats as fully reaper geared 70s, as well as rewarding reaper gear/wf chest with random wf wins that they can use when they do reach lvl 70.

    This way, new/returning players are essentially making purchases on a consumable based on how much they value their own time , and enhancing their gaming experience by easing up that powerless feeling in pvp battles .This bolstering buff will be more enticing to the sub 70 players , but I think lvl 70s probably would be using it also to try to gain an advantage over the other team / better team balance, or simply be nice so the teammates would get the random wf rewards. You could let everyone experience first hand how different their wf pvp experience is -- say, give everyone like 1 free charges a day ( more for patrons ) , and the players will decide for themselves if it's worth spending on sth that let them enjoy the game as how it would be after reaching max lvl , instead of a buffed up lowbie that still dies when someone sneezed.

    Better yet, let's try consolidating the pvp and pve communities instead of separating us, link the pve and pvp aspect in a wf: eg, build a lore and have certain wf's wins/looses effect how the bosses in pve dungeons behave and what loot would drop, or what raid/dungeons would open up as the outcome of that week's pvp battles.

    Or even more audacious: have the pvpers do what they do in wf and toss in a few bosses for 2 teams of pvers to defeat in that same instance : eg, 2 different routs that leads to the same final boss, whichever pve team defeats previous mini bosses on the way soonest gets to defeat the final boss for higher quality drops. In this case, pvpers and pvers are like npcs to each other and can not interact , but their performances will indirectly effect each other : eg if pvp team loose a control point , their pve team has to defeat 1 extral boss/gets a debuff/boss gets a big heal etc ; when your pve team defeats a boss the opposite pvp team gets a debuff / your control point gains a shield etc). This would make dungeon grinds less repetitive , and potentially help balancing those wfs where 1 team completely crushes the other one.

    Besides dimension and wardrobe, I love doing wfs since it's fun and doesn't take up much time ( Dungeons etc were fun too but then they got old fast...). It was really nice to see at least 3 wfs going on at the same time last week, I hope the new/returning players will be sticking around till after summer. After all, pvp is only fun when there are constantly new battles to be fought, running into the same opponents every wf gets a little sad sometimes.

    So after winning the last 3 wfs in a roll, let's take a p0rn break or get some tea ( you know who you are ), or switch around your play time in the day every so often, to let those poor souls on the other team have a break , regenerate some morale to stick around long enough to get hooked in rift pvp ( cause it's fun ! ), this way it'd be always safe for you to click a favor potion without worrying about sitting in the que for 15 mins with no wf pop .


    As for class balance, I still feel instead of nerfing a role/soul that's super op, giving other roles/souls measures to combat the op class would be a better option. When u nerf an op role/soul, some players are more likely to get angry and rant /rage quit instead of trying to adept to the new balance. Every class and soul should have it's place in the game play. After all, rift pvp is rarely about 1v1 battles, If certain buff is making a class super op and 1 shotting ppl, give other classes/roles abilities to reflect those 1 shotting hits, or healer buffs that would split a super heavy DD hit among all the team members, or abilities to make op buffs un-stackable with other buffs from sub souls/ give diminishing effect / make the abilities those buffs effect have a longer build up / casting time etc etc; or simply make super op buffs that needs adjustment prioritized in purging etc. Bottom line is, provide options for ppl to counter strike the deadly 1 shots that would other wise kill the whole team.

    wow I wrote an essay here...guess I care about rift more than those school assignments.... Thank you for your time !
    Phemi/Arrana/Arram/Arrama the Cookiekiller of Seastone
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koldir View Post
    hehehe me too ! I wouldn't mind carrying some sort of ad on the cloack either !

    All jokes aside
    Not joking, I would run around with a red bull logo on my cloak. Omg, it would be a reason to collect them. Think of all the beer-brands!



    Quote Originally Posted by Koldir View Post
    Or even more audacious: have the pvpers do what they do in wf and toss in a few bosses for 2 teams of pvers to defeat in that same instance : eg, 2 different routs that leads to the same final boss, whichever pve team defeats previous mini bosses on the way soonest gets to defeat the final boss for higher quality drops. In this case, pvpers and pvers are like npcs to each other and can not interact , but their performances will indirectly effect each other : eg if pvp team loose a control point , their pve team has to defeat 1 extral boss/gets a debuff/boss gets a big heal etc ; when your pve team defeats a boss the opposite pvp team gets a debuff / your control point gains a shield etc). This would make dungeon grinds less repetitive , and potentially help balancing those wfs where 1 team completely crushes the other one.
    I myself would love mixing PVE and PVP, but I also realise there's a very large amount of people that wouldn't like it one bit. Oh, the cries of people "being forced to do PVP/PVE" for their progression!

    But this would be a really cool idea for a new Warfront though. Both teams have their own friendly boss, which they have to keep alive to win. So, both teams concentrate on attacking eachothers bosses. Maybe it could spawn and die 3 times and winner is best out of 3?

  5. #50
    General of Telara Sheo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xlavius View Post


    I myself would love mixing PVE and PVP, but I also realise there's a very large amount of people that wouldn't like it one bit. Oh, the cries of people "being forced to do PVP/PVE" for their progression!
    When they announced NMT and "gear unification" will come, that was the biggest mass exodus of pvp players of rift. Whole guilds left and they went to play other games. Me too. I hope they learned from that mistake and never ever again. If its optional alright, if its mandatory nono. For me NMT was the least played expansion because of it, and I quit many games due PVE progression needed to play PVP.
    And tbh I remember complains from other side too, pve players hated to do bgs for currency.
    Sheona/Faynee <VANEN> , <Apotheosys>

  6. #51
    Shadowlander Koldir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xlavius View Post
    Not joking, I would run around with a red bull logo on my cloak. Omg, it would be a reason to collect them. Think of all the beer-brands!





    I myself would love mixing PVE and PVP, but I also realise there's a very large amount of people that wouldn't like it one bit. Oh, the cries of people "being forced to do PVP/PVE" for their progression!

    But this would be a really cool idea for a new Warfront though. Both teams have their own friendly boss, which they have to keep alive to win. So, both teams concentrate on attacking eachothers bosses. Maybe it could spawn and die 3 times and winner is best out of 3?

    hehehe that sounds kinda like port scion, I was actually thinking more in line of this scenario: take the tomb wf for instance, that map could easily be made into a dungeon map. Since rift already has time traveling in the lore, pve-teams could be a group of adventurers that traveled through time into the future/past to stop/repair what pvp teams are doing in the same map, but different instance ( alter universe). The pve and pvp teams, and the 2 pve teams will never see nor interact with each other, but the actions/out come of each team will put an impact on the other team's experience in the map.

    eg, lets say at each seal the attacking team has to conquer in the pvp map, there is a boss guarding the seal in pve map. If the defending pvp team lost control of that seal, their corresponding pve team will have to face a harder 2nd boss, or a boss with additional mechanics etc depending on which seal was broken. Vise versa, if the pve team A defeats one of the bosses at the first seal faster than the other team, or completed the event with no death etc ( some sort of scoring system would need to be introduced to include skill, team work etc into calculation ontop of the obvious timer), their pvp team would gain some advantage in the pvp instance of this same map.

    If the wining pve team is on the defending side, maybe it could put a buff on the 2nd seal, make it take much longer to click etc; if the wining pve team is on the attacking side, maybe it could give the attacking team some special buffs, or even temporary help from npcs for either cases to fill deserted spots before reinforcing players arrive in the battlefield.

    This way, both the pve and pvp instances would benefit each other, pve dungeons would be more unpredictable as bosses may or may not use the same abilities , or even look the same as last time players fought them, and unbalanced pvp matches has a chance to be less of a 1 sided zerg if the zerged side gets the karma from a super competent pve team .

    Let's not get carried away too far tho since this is probably more like an interesting idea for the next expansion, definitely not something we could expect to see anytime soon >_<
    Phemi/Arrana/Arram/Arrama the Cookiekiller of Seastone
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  7. #52
    RIFT Guide Writer Meaghanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xibitz View Post
    So much gold and nostalgia in this thread, I agree with a lot of what has been said and suggested by my fellow pvpers and it's just unfortunate how things have turned out, who knows what the future holds but it doesn't seem the rift team wants to change direction.

    I joined mid storm legion and I remember the long waits on queues for cq because of how full it was, all that mayhem and lag due to so many players pvping at the same time but apparently that was "never high".....what??? That's like a slap to the face to everyone who participated in it.

    I doubt things will change but it's good to see the remnants of the pvp community come together and speak up.
    What you've said 100 times over!

    I would return if PVP was still viable and fun with the shear numbers we used to have. I miss PVP and have yet to find a niche out there that fulfills even close to what Rift PVP was.

    I've played 6+ games over the last year and still long for the Rift PVP that we all had, even if some classes were unbalanced, it was manageable with your team and adjusting specs. The soul system alone in Rift is amazing, especially when being an individual player in PVP. Being able to play HOW you wanted, not as others made you (in many other games), Rift had the ability to make us players talk in voice chat hours on end coming up with the best specs to beat others.

    I log in over time to see who's online and ask around how PVP is, response usually is, "What PVP?"
    Last edited by Meaghanne; 06-30-2017 at 08:29 AM.
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  8. #53
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    I find it hard to believe the pvp population is that small as they say.
    All games I came from were all pvp. I can't understand the logic behind not trying to at least raise the bar in the pvp market.
    It feels like they just don't want it to be a pvp game. I say this because their actions the new weapon quest further puts a divide between pvp/pve players yet at the same time raiding has been dumbed down.

    I can't understand why they wouldnt try and streamline that huge weapon quest with pvp somehow.

    They also in my opinion forgo obvious simple balance issues in pvp because of that. if rift pvp had a very large population alot of crap that goes on in wf's wouldn't fly.

    Look at LoL there were issues in pvp that people liked yet were OP but the population was big enough to nerf those things for the good of the larger picture.
    Last edited by AVGVSTVS; 07-02-2017 at 03:40 PM.

  9. #54
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    There have been many issues that brought us to this. What I feel that somewhat started the drop in numbers was back in vanilla when both factions became friendly. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't a bad move overall, I personally hated. But it had its issues that effected pvp in a very negative way. First, it changed the overall game mood making both factions less likely to fight. Secondly, it made open world pvp, which was very popular and fun, harder to achieve for mix factioned guilds. What should of jappened was a mechanic allowing guild vs guild type of pvp at that point.

    Next was class/soul balancing. Honestly, I didn't have a huge issue with it. There were some outliers that were insanely OP but in vanilla and storm legion, soul builds had the ability to counter just about anything, especially in vanilla. This is where the pvp community is at fault here. When players started getting rocked by FoTM specs, they'd come on here and whine about it instead of taking time to learn counters. This made devs try to rebalance classes and souls which usually ended badly. This is why my beloved Voidknight is nothing like it used to be.

    Then we saw open world content be removed and open world pvp pretty much die off. Instead of killing it, there should of been more insentive to do it. Instead of putting pvp rifts in places that made little sense, devs should of placed them in populated areas forcing areas to REALLY become contested and challenging with the ability to actually capture areas.

    I loved CQ but it didn't start out that way. When it first dropped boy was it broken. But that seemed to be an issue that Trion has repeated a lot, content coming out broken or not fully thought out. I get it, it can be difficult and there's a lot of unknown elements that are hard to predict, but this happens a lot. From broken and bugged elements to weird changes such as pvp gear removal then kinda bringing it back but half assed to now only having one set and honestly I don't even know what it is now because I rarely even log in. People liked the multiple tiers of gear and progression, what they did not like was how insane the grind was, going into other content to reach max and seeing pve gear being the BiS for pvp.

    I think the most important issue is that Trion does not listen to its community. How many times have issues been brought up in PTS buy gets ignored anyways? How many times have content been suggested it gets disregarded only to come out too little too late? Rift had its glory days and though I wish with all my heart that it could turn around and bring back those days of fun and happiness, it just will not happen. Even if all the changes are made to make the game amazing once more, the old players will not come back for the simple reason that their trust in Rift and Trion has been shattered.

  10. #55
    Rift Disciple Semiso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butkus View Post
    people dont play mmo's to interact with npcs they play mmos to inter act with other players.
    THANK YOU! I havent read a single post in any game (well except Runescape reddit) where someone has figured out what MMOS is mostly about.

    Speaking of interacting with players, Runescape is one of the known old MMO open World games which btw is both P2P and F2P with a huge margin on access to content, Point is both the developers and the Community in there have such a bond, it's basically almost unbreakable, lately the developers have been switching back and forth listening to the playerbase on different subjects, but overall they have such a good relationship, where it isnt one of those Seller/buyer one, but more like friends and their families friends thing.

    I never played RIFT back when pvp was glorious, but i regret for not being there

  11. #56
    Champion MissGreen's Avatar
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    Default We need a poll for sure!!! Lets keep this thread up guys!!!

    I read through this entire thread and agree with most of what has been said. I personally pvp in Rift once in a while because it really is just a mess of imbalanced players which is no longer fun for me. I will agree that Rift pvp was some of the funnest I have ever experienced in an mmo. I started on Seastone almost three years ago and it truly was a fun time and of course cq and I actually leveled to 65 through warfronts.

    I want to give an example of just how important pvp is in a game. Take EQ2 , at one time it had some of the funnest world pvp and battlegrounds. Once the bugs/glitches started taking over in battlegrounds it became a very bad joke of things and those bugs NEVER got fixed! I mean it became so bad that I would end up in a battleground with one person on the other team. It really was a daunting experience for sure. They eventually took the battlegrounds away which for me and most players,... that was the final straw and they lost A TON of players because of it. And of course the world pvp was affected by this as well and that suffered and became obsolete too.
    Shame, really because I think in order to pull more players to your game, MMO's truly need a balance of both pvp and pve.

    I agree that if the pve thing is not working for a company as good as they thought, its time to look at pvp and other options to try to bring LIFE to a game. It's very true that mmorpg's are about playing with others, however you do that in pve as well as a party. So I would say that over all the years of myself being in online gaming, pvp is just as important if not more than pve because most gamers and I mean hard core gamers are there for OPTIONS and FUN. Who wants to sit in dungeons all the time? I surely do not! Just look at first person shooters to see what most hardcore players want.

    I hope Trion takes a look at this thread and perhaps take some ideas here into consideration because like I said I've seen games fall apart after the pvp was wiped from a game.

    Take oldschool games such as Ultima Online, that game was awesome because it was both pvp and pve but again it was mostly pvp and people are still playing it to this day! That was back in 1999. So yeah Trion needs to really look at options and use the great platform they already have to the fullest potential because its there waiting for them! I know I would jump back into pvp if it were fun again!

    PS- I had a dozen or more friends who only pvped in Rift and they all left in the middle of NMT.. Now I think I have one or two friends left that pvp. EDIT- I was in two pvp guilds when I first joined Rift, and one of the first things I look for when joining a new game is if they have a pvp server, true story.

    So open your eyes Trion, please! And Vladd is a good dev but seriously he needs to work side by side with Keyens in order to try to bring balance in every aspect of the game, because two can accomplish more than one, isn't that why we seek partners in life? lol
    Last edited by MissGreen; 07-04-2017 at 02:31 PM.
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    Trion just needs to be able to profit from PVP again. If they develop extra WF maps and make them only accessible to patrons, I wonder how many players would return to being patron again? I know I sure would.

  13. #58
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    Default "Rift isn't a PVP game"

    If RIFT isn't meant to be a PVP game and the population is as low as Brasse thinks, then why do these PVP threads pop up with TONS of likes/replies within days of posting?

    This thread is the fastest growing/most liked of any thread in the last few weeks. (at least at a glance from the 1st page I saw) Over 100 likes within 2? days and still growing. PVE guides with tons of helpful information and tons of views get.. what? 10-40 likes tops?

    How is this difficult to comprehend, Brasse? Like another above said, MMO's are for PLAYERS, not NPC's. We could all go play some single player game and hang out with scripted models all day or Raid PVE content 24/7 (that's not even an option for current tier, only a faceroll LFR TD), but that's obviously NOT what we are wanting.

    PVP is a major part of ALL MMO's, and if you disagree, I defy you to name 1 well known MMO with 0 motivation for PVP that actually maintains a population. End-gamers get bored of the same crap over and over. No matter how you look at it, no PVP match is the same. A person has more ability to screw up or shine brightly than any scripting of an NPC that does the same thing every time.

    RIFT used to compete with WoW. What changed?
    Think on that.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by HavagudwunSeeyuh View Post
    If RIFT isn't meant to be a PVP game and the population is as low as Brasse thinks, then why do these PVP threads pop up with TONS of likes/replies within days of posting?
    Because they have been neglecting PVP first, cauzing the PVP numbers to drop. Not the other way around. There are probably many PVP players trying to make the best of it and playing PVE now. And it screws with Trions population numbers.


    Quote Originally Posted by HavagudwunSeeyuh View Post
    PVP is a major part of ALL MMO's, and if you disagree, I defy you to name 1 well known MMO with 0 motivation for PVP that actually maintains a population. End-gamers get bored of the same crap over and over. No matter how you look at it, no PVP match is the same. A person has more ability to screw up or shine brightly than any scripting of an NPC that does the same thing every time.
    Yep, that's why PVP is considered the true 'elite endgame' content. And it's not being catered to.

  15. #60
    General of Telara littlepoit's Avatar
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    what i don't get : if there is little dev time to invest in PvP to a point were you consider it dead or in maintenance mode , at the very least normalize the whole thing so that everybody gets to enjoy PvP as a side game without having to care about gearing up.
    would be an instant win.
    Last edited by littlepoit; 07-05-2017 at 06:33 PM.

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