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Thread: PvP Balance - From a PvPer point of view - 4.1

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    Shadowlander Qualities's Avatar
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    Default PvP Balance - From a PvPer point of view - 4.1

    Hi everyone,

    I'm an old player that knew all states from all expensions on that game in PvP. I'm frenshly back on the game after a long break, i'm currently doing PvP only.

    I want to point out the current balance, even i know i can't expect much, i just wanna say what i think about.

    To start with something, the current TTK is just ridiculous, so many players that dies in 2-4 gcd in every wfs. I think the global damage should be revisit. At minimum 20% (25% of ranged abilities even from 'melee specs') for everyone in PvP, 15% for healing (because when you nerf global damages you need to do as well for the healing). atm it's just a kill-fast-run. And players don't even get the time to express themself that they are already dead.

    I would like to see drains (energy and mana) back on the game, to be able to counter some borken stuff, i think that was a bad thing to delete it from the game because of some QQ, it's a stuff in the game that participe to the global PvP balance.

    The broken abities that doesn't work as expected must be fixe as soon as possible, to give a single example, sergent order, the legendary stun you, and you can't breakfree on it.

    There are too much movespeed buffs on the game, that gives too much movespeed that should be nerf, specially from ranged specs.

    The current tree-system, too likely to 61 specs, and bigs macros, is a cancer for the game. It does too well, for mainly no effort. People don't even control what they do.

    Appart from the TTK, i wanna point out few specs that i find super-overpowered for NO effort or some in the other way that need an up.

    Let's start about Rogue :

    -Bladedancer, Ok it's a full melee spec (without aoes that can hit for the range), but it still doing like 110k damages per gcd on crits with the double danses ON. The spec need a nerf even if it's a full melee spec, for a minimum of 15% during the double danses ON. (+ the global dmg reduction ofc) It's too likely to 5-6 boutons for too much rewards.

    - Nightblade, with the update from the past weeks, the sustain dps look ok and balanced, but.. the burst, can litteraly kill 2 people with 6 finishers (it's a minimum) The burst is just too high for the current pull of HP. The burst is just too powerfull and need a nerf (the burst only, specially the hellfire blades as nb legendary)

    - Assbomber, all benefits from a sin soul, but as a ranged spec. Between the assassinate, (so 1 gcd on 6) you can deal even more dmg than a full melee sin from 35 metres. It's super likely from macros. i saw few bomber sin doing 40k dps from 35 meters with malice on... playing with a little amount of big macros.. i would say 5-6 binds maximum, and i stay nice about. So no effort for too much rewards, without even be a melee spec. (that mean you don't even need melee players talents).

    - Sin need a little nerf as well on dmg 5% arround on sustain. But don't forget that you need many binds, and be 100% of the time on melee, in the meta of full ranged to be really effective. People that point out steath need to understand that as full melee, you need something, it doesn't give more dmg, or more movespeed or anything, it's just an utility, the vanish is 2 mins cd. i think all fine about it.

    - Ranger, damages are fine i guess, but as many, too likely to 3-4 boutons spam. The stuff i want to point out with the spec, is the sacrifice, 10 secs - 100% of dmg absorbate it's too strong, it need a nerf. Time that apply or % of damage absorbed. (like applying 5 secs, or 50% of dmg taken on 10 secs)

    -Phys need an up, and please fixe the glitches in that specs. i would say 10% up on hps.

    Primalist :

    - Vulcanist need a nerf on the burst, and to compensate a better sustain dps. 150k hits from 35m from Ethereal Beam is just too strong, ofc you can kick it, you would say, but the time you switch on, kick it, you alread took 2 hits. (i would say a 60% nerf on pvp for that spell +50% dmg on avatar, but up the sustain dps by 10% arround)

    - Preserver is really nice to heal himself but when i see good ones doing less than 20k hps, i think that need an up too.

    Clerc :

    - Puri need a super up for PvP, that was one of the main healer spec during years and it's currently useless in PvP (i wouls say 40% on the shields, 40% on heals in PvP)

    - Sham do well dmg, but as full melee spec i think it need a better sustain dps between the burst. One more cc that isn't the burst should be nice.

    - Inq : sustain dps need an up (5-15% arround), the 2mins burst cd i would say a little nerf like 5-10% (because full crits on that it just like to be dead on 3 secs).

    - Sentinel, a 5-10% healing up should be nice.

    - Cabalist need a nerf only on one point, purges, you can purge so much buffs without effort, that need to be fixe/limited

    Mage :

    - Harb is really strong, ok it dps less than many specs, but i think it's the spec with the most of utilities in his bag, you can't dps like that with so much utilities. Utilities need a nerf or a liitle on DPS, specially as a not full melee dps. I think that the dodge buff combinate to the dmg reduction are too strong.

    - FK still strong but killable with the meta so it's ok i think.

    - Pyro need a super up, currently in the meta, and with his 'new' gamplay comming from 4.x it need to be nice to play again. The dmg are too low, specially in PvP, where players will not stay in firestorm for example so you will lose a lot of dps.

    Warrior :

    - WC, is strong but, only 1 thing make them weak : if you just debuff Stand tall, they lose so many heal during like 10 secs. Stand tall should be unpurgeable.


    - Paragon :

    Almost no cds, no need any tallents from melee because 25m hits with 3 secs cd to hit again from 25m (if you hit ppl to reduct cd). 5 boutons macros that do too well. i saw full crits burst that do more than 210k damage 1 gcd. Too much movespeed, cc from the range (yes paragon isn't a melee spec anymore but get all benefits from it) It's just too strong, cc need a nerf, sustain need a nerf, burst need a nerf, range need a nerf, pretty much everything on that spec. It's like 0 effort for a crazy amount of rewards. It's in my eyes the most unbalanced spec because the ratio effort/reward is absolutly broken. Never in rift history a ranged spec like paragon had an so high ratio. You don't even need to be good or to use your brain, you can from 25m 2-3 hits ppl, while you backpedale.




    I just gave my point of view on the PvP game in one blow. Ofc there are many other stuff to say but i've no more time to consacrete into that.

    Have a nice day.


    ~ Qualities

    PS : i forget to say that ELO matchmaking on random warfronts for a soo little players base need to be delete.
    Last edited by Qualities; 06-11-2017 at 02:41 AM.
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  2. #2
    Rift Chaser Malackye's Avatar
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    Thanks for your opinion and write up. Its clear that pvp is in a pretty bad state right now. Pvp in general could go for an overhaul for sure, top to bottom. I think its time for Trion to show a little love to pvp. Its been ignored for far too long.

  3. #3
    Fia
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    I generally agree, but you said that Warriors need unpurgeable buffs bcos otherwise they lose so much heal. It's the same with Sentinel though. No matter how much my healing output gets buffed, as soon as someone purges me, I'm practically useless for a few seconds. So in that sense, Sentinel should also get unpurgeable buffs.
    Last edited by Fia; 06-09-2017 at 01:26 PM.
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    Shadowlander Qualities's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    I generally agree, but you said that Warriors need unpurgeable buffs bcos otherwise they lose so much heal. It's the same with Sentinel though. No matter how much my healing output gets buffed, as soon as someone purges me, I'm practically useless for a few seconds. So in that sense, Sentinel should also get unpurgeable buffs.
    Oh i wasn't clear sorry, i will be more technical then, about wc i meant by buff the spell : Stand tall (it's a mark that you put on you and a target for 5mins) there is a bug on that, you must always apply it *2. But if someone debuff the guy where the second mark is, you lose your one too. He must lose 2 gcd to reapply on the target then on him. And if the wc want to switch the buff, he must put back on the target then on him, if he does the inverse it bug and he lose the buff.

    So the be clear i will update my post, not "the buffs" but stand tall.
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  5. #5
    Rift Disciple
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    not about balance, but no cc breaker in macro could help

  6. #6
    General of Telara Sheo's Avatar
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    We definitely need less obliterating specs, no more, I`m shocked after NB changes.
    L. Sargent Order with current para burst, clearly overkill and need a quicker fix.

    Also completely agree on a flat damage reduction. TTK is frustrating low.

    Also buff low levels endurance a bit, so below lvl70 players will be no more cannon fodders.
    (I have like 80-100K difference between low level and max level chars)

    Also matchmaking needs some serious overhaul, to adjust to low population.
    How about reduce every bg to 10 players, so even with less population could we got faster pop? (and reduce zerg train?)
    Sheona/Faynee <VANEN> , <Apotheosys>

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    Telaran Tymer's Avatar
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    Kind of bias
    What is Burst? <Coriolis>

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    Ascendant Xclvsive's Avatar
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    If global reductions are to take place, then only major outliers should be changed. Like eth beam, assbomber, puri etc etc

    Specs that need a 5-10% boost can be fine tuned afterwards.

    Other than that I agree with most of it, good write up.
    Last edited by Xclvsive; 06-09-2017 at 07:54 PM.
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    Plane Walker
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    Another agree with OP here.
    burst needs reducing, and also burst should always require setup. Para is the biggest offender here. Para = ****** strength

    Im not sure i agree that the new NB can take out 2-3 ppl with 6 finishers.. Plus you have to land your 5 dusk strikes to earn your 6 full range codas and im seeing mine hit for about 90k crits maximum, usually a mix of 40-80k hits that will kill a single unhealed dps, maybe leave me 1 or 2 shots to put a dent in the next target..
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    Ascendant Gilgad's Avatar
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    I'm glad someone's realised how stupid paragon is.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Speedbug's Avatar
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    Default Just like....

    In whole 2.x? If you nerf para, what else there is for them 1 button warriors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgad View Post
    I'm glad someone's realised how stupid paragon is.
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  12. #12
    Shadowlander Qualities's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedbug View Post
    In whole 2.x? If you nerf para, what else there is for them 1 button warriors?
    Personally i miss the old WL, the only true war spec that ever been. It actually need an up i guess.
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  13. #13
    Plane Touched Xibitz's Avatar
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    So much this^ and I agree on your OP

    With the ridiculous ttk atm that 1.5 gcd is a death sentence for wl
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  14. #14
    Ascendant
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    Good post, Qualities.

    My latest PvP video is a BGomination match in which their were absolutely no Harbingers, Paragons, Vulcanisms, or Assassins (until Reflexes later joined and started smashing things). No Frostkeepers either. The TTK was significantly higher than the usual norm for 4.2, and the balance was far, far better.

    Global reductions to damage and healing would be welcome, but only a partial solution. Reigning in the DPS outliers are a big part of the solution.

  15. #15
    Shadowlander Vheeee's Avatar
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    Seems the genuine state of things in PVP are related to quick fix type or the total ignore. The problem is not necessarily PVP in the general sense, but there is definitely a need for Devs to rethink the unsubtle way of dealing with PVP issues along with the PVP community. I wish to point out that regardless of all the environments (Dimming community, Raiding community, artifact community, world event community) PVP is an area that had (had as in past-tense)balance, fun and team work to get a win. Currently, teams are past the point of working together even during underdog matches. More and more players are being ruthless in warfront chat (I admit even I, am guilty of snapping). Why are the Devs continuing to ignore the need of PVP players? We aren't asking for expensive stuff, we are asking for genuine time and effort to develop this part of it. If the Devs cannot or will not fix the state of pvp, it is because they deem it "unworthy, thus PVPers are unworthy", or they do not have the skill or talent among them (this then is an easy fix... bring on a Dev that understands PVP). Seems the more we try and help by pointing out things that need to be fixed, the more Devs turn a blind eye to it. Thank you to all the PVPers who are trying to get the Devs attention and putting ideas out there. Maybe we will see something good come from all of us banding together. It cannot hurt.
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