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Thread: How to improve melee pvp. Not ranged.

  1. #1
    Ascendant Gilgad's Avatar
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    Default How to improve melee pvp. Not ranged.

    1) When you use a charge, you are immune to movement imparing effects for 3s after you reach the target location, and the entire time during the charge. So that when you charge, you dont get rooted mid air, or as soon as you land and you actually get to melee for a few seconds.

    2) Change GTH and Phantom blades to, for the next 4s (30s CD), your abilities have a 20m range and reduce your damage done by 50%. So now you have disconnect. Also make tempest winds melee range.

    3) If you want a ranged spec to have multitudes of CC, make it an immobile ranged spec. Bad Example? Marksman. Fully mobile, good damage, great utility, and most of the time actually faster then most ranged souls.

    Good Example? Vulcanist. All it has is a root and a teleport. And you lose 75% damage if you dont stand within 20m of the enemy channelling 3s channels every 5s. Can it still blow people up from ranged? Yeah. But if anyone looks at you or chases you in melee, theres nothing you can do other then root and teleport, that's it.

    When a ranged soul moves, its DPS needs to be cut in half. Or in Pyro's case, have 1-3 instants that it saves which it can use (Searing bolt, countdown, flame bolt etc). Which you CANT spam so eventually have to stop and cast, to do DPS at ranged.

    Will ranged DPS still be able to blow people up? Yeah, just do it before melee gets in your face. Because as it stands now, rangeagon with a 90% uptime on a 20m range as a melee soul is just silly. And harbinger is equally silly with 50% uptime on 30m range and a very large portion of its abilities being 35m range.

    Melee is melee, ranged is not a ranged melee.

    #rant
    Last edited by Gilgad; 04-20-2017 at 07:01 PM.

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  2. #2
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    4) Put the melee-friendly maps back on the rotation

    But yeah, agreed on all that.
    Especially CC's, it's so stupid how some melee specs (well, melee'ish) cc's are worse than a lot of ranged specs.... melee stun that takes a GCD vs noGCD ranged stun, what's the idea here?

    same with the specs that can be fully mobile and lose next to no damage.

    Inquisitor is how ranged should be. Well, not talking about the numbers here obviously, but the mechanics. If you stand still as inquisitor you deal a hell of a lot more damage. If you're on the run, your damage is reduced, but so is the damage of the melee chasing you (if melee didn't get full range damage because that's the only way they're viable in current system).

    So you'd have a decision to make, standing still to get your full potential dps, or run away, trading some DPS for survivability. Standing still obviously makes you an easier target, so it's high risk/high reward.

    Right now you get full survivability and full dps on a lot of specs, no downside, because just about all their stuff is instant/movement-allowed channels. No risk, all the rewards because your dps don't really suffer by you just running away.

    Aside from the fact that most maps on the rotation are zerg maps so anyone moving in get targetted by half the team, this is what makes melee weaker. Ranged are fully mobile, and (at least some specs) deal so much damage that you don't get much an edge even if you catch them. So you catch them, even fight, you don't catch them, they insta win because they deal 100% of their dps while you chase them, and if you retreat then THEY chase you and still deal 100% of their dps, while you do nothing.

    And the only way they thought to fix that apparently is to give "melee" some absurd dps/burst that they can also use at range so if melee can't catch his target it doesn't matter anyway. This was the wrong approach. It doesn'T make melee good it makes melee not-melee.

    Make melee more survivable, give THEM the better cc's, and make ranged less effective when they're on the run (like melee are)... Dual modes, big hitting spells with cast times, and smaller instants, with, as you said, Pyro, some instants he can keep in reserve to be somewhat effective for a while but can't just keep spamming 24/7.
    I really like inquisitor design. Only thing is the numbers aren't there, but the idea is good.



    All that, plus put the maps back in.
    Last edited by somerandomnamee; 04-21-2017 at 02:52 AM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by somerandomnamee View Post
    Make melee more survivable, give THEM the better cc's, and make ranged less effective
    Remember when Shaman used fairy healer to have a bit more suitability? The tears from the forum outcry still haven't all been mopped up yet.

    Don't get me wrong, I agree with everything in this topic. It's just very unlikely to happen.
    Last edited by Xlavius; 04-21-2017 at 03:11 AM.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Gilgad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somerandomnamee View Post
    4) Put the melee-friendly maps back on the rotation

    But yeah, agreed on all that.
    Especially CC's, it's so stupid how some melee specs (well, melee'ish) cc's are worse than a lot of ranged specs.... melee stun that takes a GCD vs noGCD ranged stun, what's the idea here?

    same with the specs that can be fully mobile and lose next to no damage.

    Inquisitor is how ranged should be. Well, not talking about the numbers here obviously, but the mechanics. If you stand still as inquisitor you deal a hell of a lot more damage. If you're on the run, your damage is reduced, but so is the damage of the melee chasing you (if melee didn't get full range damage because that's the only way they're viable in current system).

    So you'd have a decision to make, standing still to get your full potential dps, or run away, trading some DPS for survivability. Standing still obviously makes you an easier target, so it's high risk/high reward.

    Right now you get full survivability and full dps on a lot of specs, no downside, because just about all their stuff is instant/movement-allowed channels. No risk, all the rewards because your dps don't really suffer by you just running away.

    Aside from the fact that most maps on the rotation are zerg maps so anyone moving in get targetted by half the team, this is what makes melee weaker. Ranged are fully mobile, and (at least some specs) deal so much damage that you don't get much an edge even if you catch them. So you catch them, even fight, you don't catch them, they insta win because they deal 100% of their dps while you chase them, and if you retreat then THEY chase you and still deal 100% of their dps, while you do nothing.

    And the only way they thought to fix that apparently is to give "melee" some absurd dps/burst that they can also use at range so if melee can't catch his target it doesn't matter anyway. This was the wrong approach. It doesn'T make melee good it makes melee not-melee.

    Make melee more survivable, give THEM the better cc's, and make ranged less effective when they're on the run (like melee are)... Dual modes, big hitting spells with cast times, and smaller instants, with, as you said, Pyro, some instants he can keep in reserve to be somewhat effective for a while but can't just keep spamming 24/7.
    I really like inquisitor design. Only thing is the numbers aren't there, but the idea is good.



    All that, plus put the maps back in.
    This precisely, I also forgot about the maps. Yeah, domination maps were fantastic as it forced groups to somewhat split up. Rather then everyone tab onto the same guy, press 1, bang they're dead.

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  5. #5
    General of Telara Sheo's Avatar
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    2) Change GTH and Phantom blades to, for the next 4s (30s CD), your abilities have a 20m range and reduce your damage done by 50%. So now you have disconnect. Also make tempest winds melee range.
    Pretty much this. Harb currently so stupid supported with 80-90K Ethereal blast. Harb should use this only from melee. If someone wants melee then learn to stay in melee.

    Put/fix DR on snares and slows.
    Fix break free`s immunity, give proper immunity time after CC (fix DR) and remove/fix unbrekable cc from the game. Pretty much tired of if an assassin can`t kill me with his burst, then they start to using broken CC to chain stun.

    These few fixes alone could improve PVP a lot.
    Sheona/Faynee <VANEN> , <Apotheosys> , <SlashFlex>

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    Ascendant Gilgad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheo View Post
    Pretty much this. Harb currently so stupid supported with 80-90K Ethereal blast. Harb should use this only from melee. If someone wants melee then learn to stay in melee.

    Put/fix DR on snares and slows.
    Fix break free`s immunity, give proper immunity time after CC (fix DR) and remove/fix unbrekable cc from the game. Pretty much tired of if an assassin can`t kill me with his burst, then they start to using broken CC to chain stun.

    These few fixes alone could improve PVP a lot.
    I was seriously wondering if DR's were broken, i've been saying this in TS for months but I wasn't sure.

    Wow.

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  7. #7
    Telaran diolixis's Avatar
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    QQ harb OP QQ , where's konstanene when we need him.

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    Rift Disciple Samuraii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diolixis View Post
    QQ harb OP QQ , where's konstanene when we need him.
    Its op comparable to other melee classes except assasins, got lots of utlites, can escape from a fight.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuraii View Post
    Its op comparable to other melee classes except assasins, got lots of utlites, can escape from a fight.
    Harbs have everything Sins have and more *Gasps*

  10. #10
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    There was a post about bug reports maybe someone can do write up for the devs

    I agree with grasp and phantom I swear ages ago Vladd said he had something planned for these spells but I can't remember.
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  11. #11
    Plane Touched AVGVSTVS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xlavius View Post
    Remember when Shaman used fairy healer to have a bit more suitability? The tears from the forum outcry still haven't all been mopped up yet.

    Don't get me wrong, I agree with everything in this topic. It's just very unlikely to happen.
    melee is so bad in this game that it almost needed a fair healer to survive and be viable shaman right now has been reduced to almost nothing.

    Of coarse ill agree fairy healer with other specs fairy healer was op.

    harb is the best melee in the game its godddamn annoying to be forced to ignore them and not blow your CD on them when you know they will always survive. you have to wait till their almost dead to use your cd and hell they will still survive. its ridiculous. and whos ****ing bright idea to give them a stealth fcs
    Last edited by AVGVSTVS; 04-21-2017 at 09:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AVGVSTVS View Post
    melee is so bad in this game that it almost needed a fair healer to survive and be viable shaman right now has been reduced to almost nothing.

    Of coarse ill agree fairy healer with other specs fairy healer was op.

    harb is the best melee in the game its godddamn annoying to be forced to ignore them and not blow your CD on them when you know they will always survive. you have to wait till their almost dead to use your cd and hell they will still survive. its ridiculous. and whos ****ing bright idea to give them a stealth fcs
    I agree, it is silly that they can --- stealth mid combat, (making you untarget them and target the next person with a dot on you), then nuke you and someone else(blademark) for your entire hp pool in 4 seconds from 35m range (lol harb is 75% ranged) out of stealth -- Guaranteed at that with triple force crits, every single time. Annnd if you somehow live and start fighting back - lets not get into how much utility and cc they have, let alone the mitigation.
    Last edited by Gilgad; 04-22-2017 at 12:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AVGVSTVS View Post
    melee is so bad in this game that it almost needed a fair healer to survive and be viable shaman right now has been reduced to almost nothing.

    Of coarse ill agree fairy healer with other specs fairy healer was op.
    True, FH was needed to make souls like Shaman viable(ish). But made other specs near immortal. That's why I think it's a good idea to give Shaman something like FH, but very high up in its soul tree, so it can't stack with other shielding/self healing. I so loved the Shaman gameplay.
    Last edited by Xlavius; 04-22-2017 at 02:29 AM.

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    All non clerics were asking for FH nerfs because it made justicar godmode. I asked for it to be nerfed on justicars aura but nope let's just remove it from the game boys.
    ~Xclusive

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    Ascendant Gilgad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xclvsive View Post
    All non clerics were asking for FH nerfs because it made justicar godmode. I asked for it to be nerfed on justicars aura but nope let's just remove it from the game boys.
    Having your 1 minute CD big burst block be cleansed is fun too.

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