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Thread: Ranged still king in 4.1

  1. #1
    Plane Touched AVGVSTVS's Avatar
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    Default Ranged still king in 4.1

    At first I figured it wasn't worth throwing it out there but wasn't sure the pvp community cared or even agreed. So I'd at least try and start a discussion in order to bring the light some things about the nature of pvp.

    ranged damage as whole is so in your face and inescapable many time that it makes pvp extremely frustrating and hard to resist alt tabbing when hit at range for 100k+

    I'd like to reiterate that ranged projectiles don't have any collision detection. So in other words if its been casted and you find cover before the spell even gets to you it will just go though what your taking cover behind. and ofcoarse the obvious it's all auto follow and pvp has barely an RNG avoidance stats left after it's purge from ranged players years back.

    For some reason I thought trion would do a reasonable adjustment to ranged for 4.1 even a little adjustment. but wasn't surprised as it remained the same.
    Last edited by AVGVSTVS; 03-30-2017 at 07:11 PM.

  2. #2
    Sword of Telara Orochan's Avatar
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    This is literally nothing new. The last time melee had any actual agency and relevance to pvp was in SL. Ever since NT ranged has been trouncing over melee in pvp non-stop. The only exceptions to this were harb and para, and only because they have abilities that make their attacks....*gasp* .... ranged.

    Actual true melee no longer exist in rift pvp. The reasons are as follows :

    - Everyone has been granted some form of passive increased movement speed thus ensuring they spend less time in melee range. People don't think this is a big deal, but it really is. The game has gotten faster over the years and melee range has not been made bigger to compensate.

    - melee range is super small 3-5m while ranged dps are 35m with some abilities extending to 40m+ Also there are a lot of ranged abilities that don't require front LoS, like dots, which can usually be cast even if the person is behind you. There are no melee abilities I'm aware of that function like that. What this means is basically all ranged dps have an effective 35m circle around them where they can function, while melee souls strictly have a 3-5m cone in front of them in which they can function.

    - ranged abilities and souls do pretty much equal dps as melee souls, and generally have way better utility, see inq/pyro/marksman

    - not all melee souls are equal in their utility/toughness yet all melee souls are roughly equal in their dps output because -raids- see harb vs shaman which is literally the best example to show just how unfair shaman gets shafted in pvp. People loved to complain about the auto-crit massive blow back in NT yet never noticed the 35m GUARANTEED CRIT OF ETHEREAL DAMAGE FROM STEALTH from harbs followed by two other forced crits from ranged that totaled something like 40k+ damage in 1-2 secs. Keep in mind this was in NT, and harbs could do this every 30seconds. But yeah, nerf massive blow.


    Any attempt to discuss normalization/fixes of the above reasons results in the community response of "lolgitgud, all you want is for every soul to have the same ability and do the same thing all souls should just have 1 damage ability, 1 healing ability and 1 CC and that's it. So boring."

    If you want to 1v1 people in pvp go sin. If you want a fun "melee" experience in pvp, go harb. If you have a pocket healer go para. If you want to torture yourself go warlord/shaman/anything else.


    Easy fix to make melee viable in pvp again though is to just reduce all ranged damage by 50%-75% that way if you wanted to kill anything you would need people to play melee, but then all the ranged dps people would complain again. You'd also need to take away harb/para's ranged extenders if you did this, which would cause more people to complain, so basically what I'm saying is melee will never be viable or relevant in rift pvp again.
    Internet 101 : If anyone disagrees with you, they must be angry that you're right.

  3. #3
    Telaran Sodomeyes's Avatar
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    Yep, more or less spot on.

    Although I have to throw out there that melee specs are pretty darn fun in lower level pvp xD
    (NA 65 and under PvP Guild "The High Ground"
    Dimension Warfronts and group/guild PvP)

    https://www.facebook.com/Rift-NA-PVP...4823102520026/
    Lobotomeyes 65 mage, Merklasalkrem 65 Rogue.
    Numerous low level Pvpers.

  4. #4
    Plane Touched AVGVSTVS's Avatar
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    I literally hate the fact that I had to make a thread like this. It's annoying and turns the atmosphere into a serious one. I don't like to be the one that has to do it.

    But I will be that guy that says something because pvp is just straight annoying.

    and Im not even talking from so dogmatic viewpoint where I only play melee the ranged damage in pvp is annoying even when im playing ranged.

    a general damage reduction could be called for because the ttk for everyone is low.

    Granted this isn't a super easy thing to play around with there's a healer factor in here to

    my honest opinion is that healers dont seem as effective anymore.

    I think a slight boost to healing and a general ranged damage reduction is in order i'd say about 15%
    Last edited by AVGVSTVS; 04-04-2017 at 04:16 PM.

  5. #5
    Telaran Sodomeyes's Avatar
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    Yep, it should be more how it used to be.

    I don't believe healers should be immortal, but they should be damn hard to kill (if played well) and ranged should be, well, squishy. . . but hit pretty hard. Not so much burst, just harder hitting in general.

    Melee should be bursty and way less squishy than range.

    At the moment it's all over the shop.

    Healers should be at least 25% better than what they are now. Minimum.
    (NA 65 and under PvP Guild "The High Ground"
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    https://www.facebook.com/Rift-NA-PVP...4823102520026/
    Lobotomeyes 65 mage, Merklasalkrem 65 Rogue.
    Numerous low level Pvpers.

  6. #6
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    It doesn't help that they removed a lot of melee-friendly maps, aside from Blighted(and the weak 3 points in Dex) it's all zerg fights, and melee does poorly in those because whoever moves an inch forward get tab targetted by 10 guys.

    Whitefall, always 10+ in the middle, KR stones, always zerg vs zerg, Black Garden, everyone's on a team are withing 30 feets of one another, Library, everyone stands on their side...

    A lot of the maps they removed had lots of small fights ( 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 ) and melee does great in those. (Or would do great anyway if they didn't give ranged that much burst).

    Karthan dom, lots of small fights on the outside points (and big zerg fights in the middle, something for everyone)
    BG dom, small fights everywhere. The team that zerg usually lose unless they're way outskilling the enemy team.
    Ghar Station eyn, lots of small fights on the stations, in the church, etc..
    Even Port Scion, despite having such large numbers, had a lot of opportunity for small fights/melee play.

    In most of these maps melee was viable (if not optimal!) because the fights were small, so you didn't get melted down before you could even land a blow.

    But in the maps we got now, aside from BA you're usually always fighting 5-10 people in short vicinity so unless you're just "meleeing" as a ranged paragon, or have a solid pocket healer on your ***, you're gonna get melted down before doing anything good because most players hit whoever is closest (even if it's a tank ) and 6-7 potatoes dealing just 10-15k each is still enough to melt someone down quick.

    One more reason to bring it all the maps imho. Aside from the obvious reason, i.e. there was no logic whatsoever into removing them the first place.
    Last edited by somerandomnamee; 04-04-2017 at 05:48 PM.

  7. #7
    Plane Touched Rifleman's Avatar
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    Kiting is so 2014

    in 2017 you face tank and burst because gud

    but what happens if they kite

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