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Thread: Tanks in warfronts

  1. #31
    Soulwalker Luella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakatagintoki View Post
    Tank is a test of your IQ to deal with it. The IQ of tank is not in question here. I hope you got it now.
    Then I suggest, let's convert tanks to a valid IQ test Wow, I never realized Rift offers such a service :O Awesome!

  2. #32
    Soulwalker Luella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rifleman View Post
    Yes Kohai, I will be back soon and teach you the way of DPS tank.

    Btw how is PvP now?
    Thanks
    Then maybe I'll be successful in pvp

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luella View Post
    Then I suggest, let's convert tanks to a valid IQ test Wow, I never realized Rift offers such a service :O Awesome!
    Who knows? Maybe it would work as an IQ test.

  4. #34
    Shadowlander Natarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeClericsGreatAgain View Post
    Tanks are annoying in pvp there is no doubt about it. I don't tank in pvp personally but all of us really have to get used to it and think about what makes them effective- or better yet how you as a player can make them ineffective or useless for the the opposite side.

    The problem comes with alot of people not knowing how to deal with them, and some options were already given to you over and over in previous posts here. Stun's, Debilitates, Purges etc. chain that on the tanks and even better --------> Use HEALING REDUCTION DEBUFFS if you want them to die fast.

    Another option is IGNORE them lol- if you aren't smart enough to use any of the above... Tanks-they don't do dmg... go get another point or help your team somewhere else. A lot of people have no clue how to tell who is healing or tanking on the other side, or just a bunch of bad players with weak dps beating on a tank for a half hour instead of smartening up. This comes down to people being bad and not knowing the basics of pvp.

    If a tank gets you to waste your time- and you are unable to get the point or kill them they automatically win and do what they are sopposed to. They are a distraction more than anything alot of the time even in deathmatch style situation. Too many times a wf starts and a tank charges at the opposite team while ALL of their dps burns all cooldowns on him - FAIL
    Yes that would be fine but how do you intend to moderate the 4 tanks on one side?
    If it is just about having a pvp spec that makes you think about how to deal with it there are specs just for that eg: Dom.

    You are never going to have moderation over how many tanks/dps/heals there are in each side. They can however nerf the things that make them so overpowered and nothing short of trolls in pvp. I am not even suggesting a complete nerf that carries over into pve, they have nerfed how things scale in pvp only before and tanks is one thing that should be nerfed. If you want to be nothing but a pest in a warfront at least make them work for it instead of having an invisible, non-killable, non-purgeable pocket healer that has at times seen the healing provided equal to that of a decent FK or Libchanter...
    Natarya@Deepwood, Nataya@Deepwood, Racheanna@Deepwood, Natanna@Deepwood, Natsanah@Laethys

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orochan View Post
    As far as 0 point legendaries go, for both pvp and pve, fairy healer is #1. No other 0 point legendary gives that much free surivability for doing nothing. It's passive, it's always on, and the amount of times I've finished a fight with 5k-10k hp, but had 2-3 enemy dots on me, so within the next 6-12 secs I'm back up to 25%-50%+ hp because of those dots is absolutely invaluable.

    I've won 2v1's and 3v1's solely because fairy healer kept me alive. Literally, if you took FH out of the equation, I would have lost those battles. That's it. Tell me what other 0 point legendary has that big an impact on fights.

    No other 0 point legendary can even compete with FH I'm afraid, so give me some of what you're smoking to be in such denial about such a clearly unbalanced legendary.

    Furthermore, FH goes with every spec. You can take it as a healer spec, a tank spec, or a dps spec. It still performs the same. It doesn't suddenly heal less just because you're not dps, it's all based on your max HP. So again, what other 0 point legendary has that much flexibility, while still retaining that much power.

    This is crazy how pvpers STILL defend broken crap like this. I mean seriously crunch the numbers here. In 12 seconds fairy heals for 48% max hp.

    What other 0 point legendary boasts such power in pvp.
    In an optimal scenario.
    Yes, it's passive, yes, it heals for a lot.
    It doesn't always have to tho.

    1) When you are at 100% health, Fairy Healer tooltip is : "Lose a legendary point. Does nothing".
    2) When a healer/healers is keeping your health steady, Fairy Healer tooltip is "Lose a legendary point. Does nothing".
    3) When, in a group fight, you are not being targetted ( by more than random AoE/fluff damage), Fairy Healer tooltip is "Lose a legendary point. Does nothing".

    Well in fact that's not entirely accurate.
    Compared to other classes alternative (the +15/20/25% damage), in these situations Fairy Healer reads :
    "Spend a legendary point : Permanently lose 20% DPS".
    Doesn't sound so great.

    You're trying to kill a healer/tank running away with a stone? FH means you lose 20% DPS for no gain whatsoever.

    To put it this way : Every single situation where - if you didn't have FH - you would still have survived, FH reads "Lose 20% dps, does nothing".
    I don't know how often you died before FH was a thing, but I sure as hell spent more time alive than dead in WF... And all this time means I trade up DPS for nothing at all.

    And the heal received is not entirely accurate as a statistic because you can't know if it was needed heals or padding heals. If I'm fighting a DPS but I have a healer on my ***, FH will heal me for a lot, but it's irrelevant. It just 'steal' heals from the healer. I would've been at 100% even without FH. Only, I lost the DPS from the legendary I didn't pick.

    Even if FH had a 100% upkeep ( USEFUL upkeep ) it still would be debatable how good it is compared to a DPS boost. But it doesn't.

    Sometime you're not losing HP, sometime you're losing HP but a healer is on you so FH doesn't really accomplish anything, and sometime you're dying to focus fire/ a strong DPS so it heals you for like 20k before you die. Spending a legendary point to get +20k life is not worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orochan View Post
    This is crazy how pvpers STILL defend broken crap like this. I mean seriously crunch the numbers here. In 12 seconds fairy heals for 48% max hp.
    Please post me a screenshot of your 10 million self-heal warfronts.
    Yes it can heal that much in optimal scenario. But a LARGE part of the time in WF you're at 100% hp or 0% hp. Fully healed, or dead.
    In both case FH does nothing at all.

    At 1% hp or 100% hp, a damage buff is active.
    If you're in a fight, +20% damage is ALWAYS +20% damage.
    But sometime you're in a fight and FH does nothing at all, because people are targetting other players, or not hitting you more than your AoE healers can handle. So EVEN if some FH heal gets through, it's not actual heals, it just got you from 99% to 100% before the tact spam got you. It changes nothing.

    Losing some %damage changes everything to, no matter what you're doing. You're always doing some damage.
    And when heals are in the equation, often the difference between 100% dps and 120% dps is the difference between "heals are negating your DPS" and "you're taking someone down".

  6. #36
    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somerandomnamee View Post
    [...]
    Being dead means 100% damage lost.
    Stop thinking like a PvE fanboy.

    And, if DPS is so important, then I guess you won't mind if they put Faerie Healer on the PvP healing reduction. Sounds like you prefer using the damage legendaries that Runeshaper and Sentinel offers anyway.
    Last edited by Snap; 03-10-2017 at 05:50 AM.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    Being dead means 100% damage lost.
    Stop thinking like a PvE fanboy.
    If you don't realize how doing more DPS is important in PVP you're the one thinking like a PVE'er.

    20% more damage in PVE is 20%. That's it.
    20% more damage in PVP achieves a lot more than +20%, because it goes up against the heals.
    (please tell me I won't have to explain that, it's basic logic).

    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    And, if DPS is so important, then I guess you won't mind if they put Faerie Healer on the PvP healing reduction. Sounds like you prefer using the damage legendaries that Runeshaper and Sentinel offers anyway.
    Oh sure I'd be glad if they buffed cleric to make it competitive (with or without FH). Right now cleric isn't good. Make cleric good (with or without FH) and I won't give a **** if you nerf/fix FH or even if you remove it from the game; Cleric will be good.

    But cleric is bad, and you want to take away something from it, so I'm asking, why?
    There are good specs out there. Take something from them instead.


    You guys act like FH will heal you for 100k or 200k health in a fight against a competent player, it does not. It might against derps hitting you for 5k DPS, but the problem is on you not on FH.

    There are instant abilities that hit you for 100k in the game, there are channelings that hit you for 200k, there are specs that can take you from 100 to 0 in 1 GCD. FH does nothing against any of that. FH does something against people with subpar specs/subpart gear who'd take 30 seconds to kill you even if you did NOT have fh.

    Make cleric competitive and I won't care if you nerf/fix/remove FH. But right now cleric isn't really competitive, and there ARE specs that are competititve ( some would say, OVERcompetitive ). Either bring them down to clerics level, or bring cleric up to their level, before making the struggling one worse by taking out something from them.

    So, to answer your question about "Well if you liek DPS so much you won't mind what they do to FH?"...
    Sure thing. Just give cleric a ranged instant that hits for 50 to 100k, or a "I win" button that melt someone from 100 to 0 in 1 second. Like the other callings have. Then I won't give a **** what you do to FH.
    Last edited by somerandomnamee; 03-10-2017 at 06:32 AM.

  8. #38
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    Aggressive Inquisition can melt someone from 100 to 0. Just that it happens every 2 minutes and can be interrupt instead of every minute for a Pyro-Ele and uninterruptable.

    There is no such thing as competitiveness in Rift. It's FOTM stacking because people like you cry the moment someone ask for a nerf to something that is too strong. Saying it will leave your class underpowered or that your class sucks.

    What's even the point of balancing the game if everyone prefer it unbalanced with everyone one shoting each other or being immortal tanks.

    Don't nerf Pyro-Ele because otherwise mage won't have anything. We can't tank, we can't support and we can only heal on a paid soul.
    Come on now Trion, it's not fair that you nerf my class when I can only do one thing.
    Freaking hell.
    Last edited by Snap; 03-10-2017 at 08:23 AM.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    Aggressive Inquisition can melt someone from 100 to 0. Just that it happens every 2 minutes and can be interrupt instead of every minute for a Pyro-Ele and uninterruptable.
    You're not seriously comparing a 2 minute cooldown channeling that everyone and their grandmas know they have to interrupt, to abilities that you can spam dozens of times in a WF and can't be stopped..
    Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    There is no such thing as competitiveness in Rift. It's FOTM stacking because people like you cry the moment someone ask for a nerf to something that is too strong. Saying it will leave your class underpowered or that your class sucks.
    So, what's the cleric's FOTM?
    What spec are clerics using to DOMINATE warfronts at the moment?

    There's no cleric fotm. But there are for other callings, yet you're stuck on trying to nerf FH despite the fact that it doesn't do A THING against these other fotm. It's only useful against bad players or bad specs.

    How good is an FH cleric against an elem? About as good as someone with only 4 legendary points spent.

    One of the reason Rift is about FOTM stacking is because of people like you who complain about ****ty specs to get them nerfed to the ground.

    Most people here probably play a hell of a lot more than the devs do ( if they ever do ). Their input from the game is from the players, and from their statistics.

    From the players... Well there are threads about nerfing actually overpowered stuff that makes PVP unbalance and that makes a class shine.
    FH isn't one of those. Cleric sure as **** doesn't shine at the moment. But when people whine to get literally every single thing nerfed, the devs probably don't care much.

    And then there's the stats, their delta of win/loss thingy they keep track on. I assure you that cleric sure as hell isn't high on that list.

    Yeah, this is an FOTM meta. Most callings have FOTM. Cleric doesn't. And cleric's the one you're targetting. What do you think happens with the actual FOTM when you nerf their competition?
    Hint : They become STRONGER.

    Anyway, I'm done here. The fact that you seem to imply that Cleric is FOTM or that fairy heals make cleric FOTM is laughable. Cleric is terrible, and 1 ability that perform more than it should because broken or wtv, doesn't make it good. It's still bad, and would be worse without it.

    When there's no spec that can kill you in 1-4 seconds, maybe FH will be problematic... But when anyone barring a tank can be melted down in less than 5 seconds, FH doesn't heal too much.

    If FH is preventing you from getting a kill your damage is certainly abysmal. And keep in mind, FH is also preventing the cleric from getting kills, because it lower his dps, compared to his optimal dps. And taht's on an already low-dps class.

  10. #40
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    Most clerics won't realize they have to reequip their weapons each time they enter a warfront or will lose a significant amount of dps/hps on top of being under other classes because they don't get registered consumables. I just confirmed this is still happening in SFP and hasn't been fixed since NT. Right now they are under but are even forced lower because of these bugs.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 03-10-2017 at 12:10 PM.

  11. #41
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    Do they also lose consumables used on PvP weapons ?

    The bolstered weapon enchant bug "works" for everyone.
    Last edited by Lokken`; 03-10-2017 at 01:44 PM.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by somerandomnamee View Post
    You're not seriously comparing a 2 minute cooldown channeling that everyone and their grandmas know they have to interrupt, to abilities that you can spam dozens of times in a WF and can't be stopped..
    Right?
    You said a "I win" button that 100-0 someone in a second. Aggressive Inquisition does just that but it doesn't matter to you because Elemental Burst is even more of an outlier.

    You're worse than a broken record.

    They could make Massive Blow one shot people that you'd probably still use Elemental Burst as an excuse to not fix it.

    Stop playing the martyr.
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  13. #43
    Shield of Telara Orochan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    You said a "I win" button that 100-0 someone in a second. Aggressive Inquisition does just that but it doesn't matter to you because Elemental Burst is even more of an outlier.

    You're worse than a broken record.

    They could make Massive Blow one shot people that you'd probably still use Elemental Burst as an excuse to not fix it.

    Stop playing the martyr.
    There's no real point in arguing with him, he doesn't have an actual idea of balance, and really, who can blame him. Like I said before, balance in rift pvp has been non-existent for years now.

    You can point out how fairy heals does 48% hp over 12 secs but he'll just come back to "well if you're at 100% hp, FH is "lose a legendary point"

    Okay well if we are using that logic, every dps legendary available is "if you're not targeting somebody, that ability is now "lose a legendary point. Does nothing."

    I mean seriously? LOL. Way to just make up your own metric by which to judge a legendary by, and then ignore what actually happens in WF's. LMFAO. I can't even anymore.

    I can kill people just fine with FH, so my dps is just fine. I don't need more. So that argument is invalid too. My RC'd AI still 100-0's most healers, and an extra 15% dps debuff won't change that. FH is OP. Stop swimming in the nile.
    Last edited by Orochan; 03-10-2017 at 03:49 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuraii View Post
    Did you see any cleric in that pic?
    How come not if get got the op faeri?

  14. #44
    Rift Disciple Samuraii's Avatar
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    FH isnt op, trion should fix mages dps first.
    Doing 30k dps on someone with 3-4k heal from fh is unbalanced

  15. #45
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    LFH is OP. But its definately not priority OP. And its mainly OP for tanks, for dps its more situational than many other legendaries.
    Make it a fixed amount HoT rather than HP% ?

    I keep seeing ppl saying pvp hasnt been balanced since start of nmt etc.. And SL was pvp hayday.. Well yes we had owpvp and pvprifts and dailies even which were fun and god knows why they got rid of them!?! but rogues were, and had been since day 1 stupidly OP.
    Todays pvp has fotm classes but i would say every calling has at least one that is competetive, so it aint too bad tbh.
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