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  1. #31
    Ascendant DarkDaemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    FH Tanks are more countered than Primailst and Mage hybrid Tanks because Clerics are susceptible to cc and have nowhere close to the amount of sheer utility access any of those tanks get. Those other TANKS can carry stones with speed talent boost as well which is so broken and is the most important part of winning a match. They can Rift Tomb/rift prison, silence and they have pulls on a lower timer.
    VK tanks can counter Cleric tanks with silence and refreshable summons(5 to 8 times a min vs once a min for cleric) by pulling them off the nodes they occupy. They can summon them far away and off locations, its stupid since in some cases it doesn't respect line of sight and summons through walls.

    RS/Phys is also a tough tank to kill and has all the blinks and get aways that cleric can only dream about having. They also can hybrid in to sab and get a pull in and unbreakable stun that can hit a whole party or more and for kicks can Rift Prison other cleric tanks.

    Point is there is plenty of counters for you to choose against CLERICS. THEY ARE THE MOST COUNTERED CLASS IN ALL OF RIFT and live or die off 1 or two abilities because of the massive neglect to build the class with PvP in mind. When they made RS and Druid they EVEN said they were focusing on getting them raid specific while we dealt with basic 1-2 button specs from Elementalist and Ranger/sab for long time. And ranger/sab still has the most broken ability in the game with diffuse, assassin with slip away, which is far more effective than a puny absorb shield that last 1 sec and JP which gets erased away in 2 secs. if you get focused etc. Nothing like that cleric gets.

    You may get your wish but you are just so lame if you can't find a perfect counter to them. PvP is not about dps, and healing. Tanks and support have playing options as well and to be honest it would have worked better if players actually looked at their team as incomplete without a tank just as much as it looks incomplete without heals. That should be the case. Once cleric gets all their nerfs in they will be just like they were for the last four months prior to SFP where even top guide makers all quit on providing the cleric support they needed.

    It was the same as last expansion with every dps soul going into Inquisitor because of how insane the dps loss was with going into any other soul.

    You don't have any real clue how broken classes are in general and asking for cleric to constantly be nerfed as its such a big priority. It really is MORE A LEARN TO PLAY ISSUE IF YOU CAN'T DEAL WITH CLERIC TANKS.
    I want some of what you're smoking, if you think RS/Phys is superior to Justicar.

    It's really hard to agree with your posts or take them into consideration when all you do is bash other classes (especially rogues ) in most of them. Your fellow cleric mains don't even agree with you. There's so much hyperbole and misinformation that it almost feels like you're a plant, a straw man throwing up so much crap that people would disagree with your 'points' out of sheer disgust.
    Last edited by DarkDaemon; 03-02-2017 at 09:39 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    I usually agree with you Xclusive but not on this.

    There is absolutely no excuses for an ability like Legendary Faerie Healer to have a free pass on PvP healing like that. Otherwise, other similar abilities/talents need a similar treatment. Why is Legendary Rime, Draining Bolt, Life Leech, Essence Strike, Glory of the Chosen, Contempt and every other similar ability/talent reduced in PvP but Legendary Faerie Healer gets to heal more than all of those abilities combined? It is absolutely not normal for this ability to be 30 to 40% of a Sentinel heals.

    This is the same debacle as Juridical Privilege.
    I'm all for buffing clerics viability, but having a Broken ability like Legendary Faerie Healer isn't the way to do it.
    Then what is the way to do it?
    Because people always like to talk against this or that specific ability that looks broken/OP...
    Who cares about abilities? Care about specs instead.

    Which cleric spec is made OP by this ability ( read : more OP than the FOTM of the other callings ). Name one, beside tanks ( tanks are stupid ).

    The core PVP specs, i.e. dps/heals, cleric are sub par.

    So you take down the big survivability took from the cleric, one of the least threatening class in the game, and...
    And nothing? That's it? That's the fix?

    There's currently 3 clerics in the top 20 on the leaderboard. 6 in the top 50.
    This is WITH the opportunity to choose a skill that - according to the forums - makes cleric freaking invincible.

    How are they not dominating the scene more than that? They don't even make their quota-per-class on the leaderboard ( should expect 4 clerics in the top 20, 10 in the top 50, that's if they were AVERAGE ). But they're not even that. They're not average, they're terrible. Hell, it's even worse than it looks, because most clerics play DPS (because lulz cleric heals in 2017) so they should be overrepresented on the leaderboard. But they're UNDERrepresented.

    So you take out fairy healing, and now there's no cleric in the top 20, 2 in the top 50, there you go, BALANCE!

    Are you in charge of balancing the game? That would explain a lot.
    Cleric is one of the worst calling at the moment.
    Yes, FH heals a lot, but EVEN with this cleric is one of the worst calling.
    It's not up there for the damage, it's not up there for the ST heals...

    So you want to make one of the worst calling worse because they have 1 broken ability?
    Here's a PSA for you, all callings have "broken" abilities.
    Only, some callings that are actually successful have them. But you want to target the calling that struggle WITH the broken FH, and make it worse? Why?

    Spec balance =/= ability balance, and ability balance is entirely irrelevant as long as the specs are balanced.

    Cleric's specs aren't OP at the moment.

    Let's put it this way : If you were to make a premade to participate in a 5v5 tournament to win huge prizes, how many fairyhealing clerics would you put on your premade to try to win it all?

    Hint : the correct answer is 0. Because the other specs are better. It doesn't matter if THAT ABILITY is good or not. If the spec isn't superior to the others, why do you want it nerfed?

    Or "fixed", however you call it... The spec is already inferior and you want to "fix" one of its abilities that performs better than it should? And then the spec will be even worse and you'll make a thread to buff it?


    Also, FH is overrated and complained about in part because it's especially good against bad DPS'ers/no focus fire.
    If you take 30 seconds to kill a cleric, of course FH will heal him a lot, and negate most of your DPS because it's very low anyway ( given it takes you 30 seconds to kill him ).

    If you kill him in 4-5 seconds, FH is almost irrelevant.
    And if people focus fire and kill him in 1-3 seconds, it's like it's not even there and he spent a legendary points in vain.
    Last edited by somerandomnamee; 03-02-2017 at 10:23 PM.

  3. #33
    Champion of Telara Xclvsive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    I usually agree with you Xclusive but not on this.

    There is absolutely no excuses for an ability like Legendary Faerie Healer to have a free pass on PvP healing like that. Otherwise, other similar abilities/talents need a similar treatment. Why is Legendary Rime, Draining Bolt, Life Leech, Essence Strike, Glory of the Chosen, Contempt and every other similar ability/talent reduced in PvP but Legendary Faerie Healer gets to heal more than all of those abilities combined? It is absolutely not normal for this ability to be 30 to 40% of a Sentinel heals.

    This is the same debacle as Juridical Privilege.
    I'm all for buffing clerics viability, but having a Broken ability like Legendary Faerie Healer isn't the way to do it.
    If it obeyed healing reductions but the heal is increased to ~120% of max hp over 3 seconds would that be better? No. It doesn't make a difference in pvp but its broken in pve. Like I previously stated: the only way to do it is to specifically nerf FH in pvp with pvp specific reductions. Also, 30-40% of sent heals? Stop facetanking on purpose to inflate FH numbers m8.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    Please show me parses that clearly show the vast majority of people beating 20k DPS in PvP.
    for ****s and giggles http://imgur.com/a/EsTxQ but nerf faerie heals

    Quote Originally Posted by somerandomnamee View Post
    snip
    yuuuuuuuuuuuppppppp
    Last edited by Xclvsive; 03-02-2017 at 10:30 PM.
    ~Xclusive

  4. #34
    Shield of Telara Orochan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    I usually agree with you Xclusive but not on this.

    There is absolutely no excuses for an ability like Legendary Faerie Healer to have a free pass on PvP healing like that. Otherwise, other similar abilities/talents need a similar treatment. Why is Legendary Rime, Draining Bolt, Life Leech, Essence Strike, Glory of the Chosen, Contempt and every other similar ability/talent reduced in PvP but Legendary Faerie Healer gets to heal more than all of those abilities combined? It is absolutely not normal for this ability to be 30 to 40% of a Sentinel heals.

    This is the same debacle as Juridical Privilege.
    I'm all for buffing clerics viability, but having a Broken ability like Legendary Faerie Healer isn't the way to do it.
    100% agree with this. There is nothing normal, or balanced, about fairy heal atm, especially considering a dot like pressurize (which a maelstrom HAS to have on a target for the soul to actually work ) ends up HEALING the cleric for well over 50% hp over it's duration.

    The only dots that can actually kill my cleric are warlock dots when conflux is up. You're telling me a 0 point legendary basically negates 99% of dots in the entire game is balanced? lolololololol
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuraii View Post
    Did you see any cleric in that pic?
    How come not if get got the op faeri?

  5. #35
    Telaran Lulutala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xclvsive View Post
    And grabbing fairy healer as warden or any cleric healing spec reduces your healing by 20%, good clerics don't use it in their healing specs.
    While waiting for 4.1...-ixhhaja.jpg

    Poor snuggle
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  6. #36
    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    I'm done.

    I don't even want to talk about this **** anymore.
    This conversation is the same as any other broken things that ever existed in Rift.

    People: Reaver is broken!
    Warriors: No it's fine, it's the only thing that keeps Warrior relevant.

    People: Juridical Privilege is broken!
    Clerics: No it's fine, it's the only thing that keeps Cleric relevant.

    People: Pyro-Ele is broken!
    Mages: No it's fine, it's the only thing that keeps Mage relevant.

    People: Marksman is broken!
    Rogues: No it's fine, it's the only thing that keeps Rogues relevant.

    The story just repeats itself over and over and over and over again.
    Always people defending their favored class constantly with this sad excuse.

    So I am done wanting to get things balanced.

    Please buff Legendary Rime, remove the PvP healing reduction on it. It's the only thing that can keep mage relevant outside of Pyro-Ele and Warlock. It's okay if it creates an abomination like Warlock-Rime, clerics have Justicar-Faerie, so it's only fair that we get something just as broken.
    Last edited by Snap; 03-03-2017 at 02:33 AM.
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  7. #37
    Shield of Telara Orochan's Avatar
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    That's rift pvp. People don't want balance, they just want their favorite class to be on top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuraii View Post
    Did you see any cleric in that pic?
    How come not if get got the op faeri?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDaemon View Post
    I want some of what you're smoking, if you think RS/Phys is superior to Justicar.

    It's really hard to agree with your posts or take them into consideration when all you do is bash other classes (especially rogues ) in most of them. Your fellow cleric mains don't even agree with you. There's so much hyperbole and misinformation that it almost feels like you're a plant, a straw man throwing up so much crap that people would disagree with your 'points' out of sheer disgust.
    Me strawman!? Ha! You don't even realize it but you are trying very hard to strawman me right now with massively misinterpret data. Maybe you should learn what it means before you accuse a person of strawman arguing.

    I will entertain your for a few secs. . In fact I think I am talking to the same person on several accounts who doesn't know how to read correctly or even get an implication half right.

    Name what place did I even say that cleric tanks or rogue tanks are superior to each other? In fact a good implication of what I said is they each have their own advantages and definitely in edge cases they can both be just as annoying to deal with. Removing the one advantage of the cleric tank outside an in battler rez is all a cleric tank really gets. Every other class tank would need to be nerfed with a sledgehammer to compensate for the it.Take a look at some videos made by your fellow Rogues. Where they constantly blink in and out of combat interrupting flag caps with passive AoE while being stunned or cc'ed.

    From someone who is so wildly like in your own imagination your opinion about me is pretty much as dirty as it gets. You are nowhere close to as experience with all the classes as some of the other players and you definitely are among the worse to interpret data when your reading comprehension is this bad.

    In fact I am even teaching you how to be a better pvp'er and there is barely any pro clerics left. Many of them switched over after the derp remakes and the shaman nerf. The amount of fustration clerics went through to test Runeshaper and get it revamped because it was fail, druid was a total flop, and the remake didn't even allow them a place in PvP unlike elementalist, ranger/sab. Then you have defiler which wasn't a thing until some cleric learned to stack over the legendary limit. I know plenty of clerics who rerolled after being completely frustrated with cleric development and a ton of other good clerics in many guilds who main the class are about as dense as they can be because they know everything about cleric yet know very little about the state of classes in general. In fact the ones that the dev turned to for a balance past left them 10-15% under the other rogues in DPS in MoM. Like that panda cleric who kept saying cleric was in a good place yet they were not.

    I am guessing you are mad because I brought tup he fact that your main warrior has a bugged ability which has been broken for years and could summon through the bridge in Port Scion, summon them into walls getting them stuck in runemasters and summon them from mid center dex on the side through the cliff and under the bridge going to vault. You are MASSIVELY CLUELESS if you don't think this isn't broken or even OP because of the amount of times it can be refreshed per min.

    Let me rewind.
    Again. Name what place did I even say that cleric tanks or rogue tanks are superior than each other? In fact a good implication of what I said is they each have their own advantages that they can use and nerfing one with the least advantage is just stupid. and I have caught you doing it a few times already.
    And you have have the audacity to say I am straw man arguing!? LMAO. -10 for the effort.

    You were not worth the effort to reply to in the other post in rogue forums where you say they have had it the worse in the last 4 months.. MY $$$!! They have screen shots of them doing 35K+ HPS which is usually double of warden in PvP. Crum has multiple videos of him facerolling players in sin spec on Youtube at the vault to literally every full dps class that exist. Rogue also has more competitive and easy specs to play over cleric since their average dps is higher in PvP with MM but cleric dps is on average higher on stand alone dummy..

    Even Xclusive who is on another level than most clerics barely competes with other classes top end dps specs even playing each of the classes for himself. If anyone is delusional, misinterpreting data and straw man arguing its YOU but nice try though.

    If a cleric played any other class he will find so many "gamebreaking" stuff as well and the funny thing is it isn't even considered a problem to the developers if the other class just have better utility, better playability, better dps and bette hps when those are the biggest problem that exist in class balance at the moment.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 03-03-2017 at 02:10 AM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    Name what place did I even say that cleric tanks or rogue tanks are superior than each other? In fact a good implication of what I said is they each have their own advantages that they can use and nerfing one with the least advantage is just stupid. and I have caught you doing it a few times already.
    I mean... you are implying that Justicar is weaker by saying that it has the least advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    They have screen shots of them doing 35K+ HPS which is usually double of warden in PvP.
    While waiting for 4.1...-mkay.png
    ???
    Last edited by Snap; 03-03-2017 at 02:13 AM.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orochan View Post
    That's rift pvp. People don't want balance, they just want their favorite class to be on top.
    You don't even know why a FH is as powerful as it is in cleric tank spec. If you did you would have been in the same boat on what Xclusive said and didn't straight up regurgitate nonsense based on a parse made by another person. You still can't admid that FH defilers get a larger part in self heals because they are constantly doing damage to dps. Do you even admit this is greatly skewing data in HPS? Nope. You QQ with almost 0 knowledge of the class mechanics and playability and why some data is skewed. You are a prime example of why developers were entirely wrong on two other levels with them building defiler the way it is.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    You don't even know why a FH is as powerful as it is in cleric tank spec. If you did you would have been in the same boat on what Xclusive said and didn't straight up regurgitate nonsense based on a parse made by another person. You still can't admid that FH defilers get a larger part in self heals because they are constantly doing damage to dps. Do you even admit this is greatly skewing data in HPS? Nope. You QQ with almost 0 knowledge of the class mechanics and playability and why some data is skewed. You are a prime example of why developers were entirely wrong on two other levels with them building defiler the way it is.
    Come on now, not even defiler ability, and not only defilers abusing it. We would not complain if this would be LVL61 defiler legendary, but its zero point, thus anyone can use it.
    Not only clerics can damage themselves anyway!

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokovap View Post
    Come on now, not even defiler ability, and not only defilers abusing it. We would not complain if this would be LVL61 defiler legendary, but its zero point, thus anyone can use it.
    Not only clerics can damage themselves anyway!
    There is no class that can take 20% off their life with a single button and as a result of the poor defiler revamp they can't even spec for a good hybrid because that percentage increases even more without the standard soul reductions. Same ability from druid to gain mana randomly hits for over the specified amount for the same reason- bugged outside talent interactions like a damage buff that has been around since Defiler remake and was a solid reason why many clerics complained about the spec in CoA as they would klll themselves if they used it during the phase on fionne.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 03-03-2017 at 02:38 AM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    There is no class that can take 20% off their life with a single button and as a result of the poor defiler revamp they can't even spec for a good hybrid because that percentage increases even more without the standard soul reductions. Same ability from druid to gain mana randomly hits for over the specified amount for the same reason- bugged outside talent interactions like a damage buff that has been around since Defiler remake and was a solid reason why many clerics complained about the spec in CoA as they would klll themselves if they used it during the phase on fionne.
    You mix PVE and PVP.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    I mean... you are implying that Justicar is weaker by saying that it has the least advantage.
    Am I suppose to be impressed by that screen shot. I was talking about average for most players playing tact fairly well will easily outparse warden in PvP by double. And the top HPS for tact has been far more than your cherry picked screen shot. Try 56840 HPS. I won't bother to post the pic. Go find it yourself.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokovap View Post
    You mix PVE and PVP.
    PvE doesn't matter since they haven't even begun to introduce tier raiding and that one boss that can die in just over 2 mins with adds padding tons of its damage isn't even worthy of a test of the capacity of the classes over longer fights with lots of tab targeting and heavy movement similar to that of PvP. If your saying that the bad outside interactions are not effecting PvP as well. You are wrong.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 03-03-2017 at 02:54 AM.

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