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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: PvP in Starfall Prophecy

  1. #46
    Champion Azuli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sencas View Post
    Actually, just remove the old prestige titles from the achievements and award those based on final seasonal elo scores

    What would this prove? That you hardly played pvp on your main character to maintain a high ELO and Soul Recalled out of any match that looked like a loser?
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  2. #47
    Sword of Telara Orochan's Avatar
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    @Ocho, will the new tier of warmonger gear be pvp only? Like the current trinkets only being usable inside a WF? I don't think many pvpers appreciate their trinket's abilities not being usable outside WF's. I know I don't.

    What is the plan going forward with pvp gear? Are we going back to SL days where pvp gear is only good in pvp?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azuli View Post
    What would this prove? That you hardly played pvp on your main character to maintain a high ELO and Soul Recalled out of any match that looked like a loser?
    There is so much wrong with what you just said idek know what to say.
    Last edited by Xclvsive; 10-12-2016 at 04:31 PM.
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    Yes, you can acquire fragments through PVP.

    Fragments will be subject to some level of bolster as well. Fragments are basically items just like your breastplate or helm except that they bend just about every single rule that governs items in code. As such, we have to put in additional bolstering requirements/tech for them. This isn't exactly set in stone yet due to the complexity of fragments. The end result will be the same as stated in the original message in this thread that gear will be normalized through bolstering and planar fragments are included as gear.
    That is a perfect answer - thanks Vladd!

    Ever since the idea of Planar fragments was introduced I've been thinking about how they would affect PvP. Because fragments are random a more conservative approach might be to 100% normalize planar fragments in PvP at the onset of 4.0 to isolate their impact out of the meta and then slowly introduce and open up a floor and ceiling from the midpoint - if that's even desired. Just trying to throw out ideas for thought - and in theory make the lives of the devs easier when trying to balance PvP.
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  5. #50
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azuli View Post
    What would this prove? That you hardly played pvp on your main character to maintain a high ELO and Soul Recalled out of any match that looked like a loser?
    It's not about proving (okay it might be to some) but I think it'd be more of people having a reason to perform better to win a warfront to increase their rank. You WANT to achieve your goal of X rank so you can earn Y title for the season.

    But it might be difficult to do something like that in Rift where the matchmaking system is dependent on what we currently know as Elo. If it were feasible (resource/financially), I think it would be better to have a separate ranking just for "show"/fluff that is entirely indepedent of your matchmaking ranking.

    That way the matchmaking Elo (what we have now) can be hidden and left as-is. And then we can have "seasonal" rank that is visible. Give people the desire to achieve a higher ranking in pvp or something.

    Basically, kinda like what other games do that have competitive seasons. Check out this post that Overwatch has that goes over their S2 stuff.

    Edit: Also, soul recalling out of a Warfront still counts as a loss towards. It will remove from your current Elo. Soul recall, leaving warfront, afk/votekick, and taking a guild banner will all give you a loss (and a debuff.)
    Last edited by Riane; 10-12-2016 at 04:20 PM.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azuli View Post
    What would this prove? That you hardly played pvp on your main character to maintain a high ELO and Soul Recalled out of any match that looked like a loser?
    Maybe that is how you like to play. Each to their own :shrug:

    I think a real PVPer would see it as a title of achievement for sustained good play over an extended period of time.

  7.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by shp View Post
    Will we be able to buy gear from that tier with existing warmonger marks?
    As with expansions, your old currency does not translate over. You'll need to earn new SFP warmonger marks to buy SFP warmonger gear. It's fairly standard practice to require new currency for new gear.

  8. #53
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    Only in Rift less PvP = better PvP.


    It is really disheartening to see the development team take such drastic actions, with out the input of the PvP community. Especially, when there have been several good suggestions on how to improve PvP in Rift.
    #endthedoublestandards

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    As with expansions, your old currency does not translate over. You'll need to earn new SFP warmonger marks to buy SFP warmonger gear. It's fairly standard practice to require new currency for new gear.
    Yes, I know, just wanted make sure. Buying that ice-zerker dagger for my rogue then.

  10. #55
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    Thanks for the rapid, informative responses, devs!

    One last question: is gearing up going to be handled the same way - boxes with RNG?
    Last edited by Myred; 10-12-2016 at 04:36 PM.
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  11. #56
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    Just read through all this and I must say.... This is really disappointing. People were asking what was in store for pvp and you come out and say that you're cutting maps? Sure, we might still see them occasionally, but as someone who loves BG and Karthan non-dom, I'd really like to be able to play them regularly. I don't know how all of the only-pvping players feel about this, but to me, this just seems like just another go at ****ting on the pvp community...

    Elo reset is great, but that's not enough to push out for the entire expansion, especially when you're cutting maps the way you are.

    Additionally, anyone who doesn't buy the expansion is going to be screwed. At "max", you'll be at the bottom of the barrel with no chance of competing. 65 should either maintain it's own queue or be worked into a 64-65 or something. As much as I know you want people to buy the expansion, alienating those who choose not to is not the way to go.

    I originally wasn't planning on coming back and since I have, I've been on the fence on whether I want to buy the expansion. With such small PvE plans and now with less PvP, what should someone, who almost exclusively plays instanced content, look forward to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Within Warfronts there’s also a big spread of 11 different types of maps/modes, each with their own win conditions and means of awarding points. Different teams will often employ different strategies from match to match on the same map, depending on both team composition and personal preference. This is an enormous amount of information to learn and understand; someone who is interested in joining the PvP community has to learn a lot of different WF Maps, how CQ functions, why certain abilities are preferred in PvP over PvE, how certain abilities differ in scale of effect from PvE and PvP content, and why they keep getting jumped on by Assassins while trying to quest on Seastone or Bloodiron. It has proven daunting and frustrating for many.
    This is flat out wrong. You're doing the same thing to PvP that you did to PvE. To anyone who is enthusiastic about pvp and willing to put in the effort, the current pvp situation is not "daunting". It's work. No, you will not be wrecking everyone with half your slots missing. No, you will not be a great player just by loading into a wf. Yes, you do have to put some effort in. No, it is not something that 90% of the population cannot handle. You are, yet again, catering to those players that have no interest in improving and no interest in putting the time in to learn everything they need to learn. You are catering to the players with half empty slots and rain of arrows spammers. Rather than provide resources for players to improve, you instead choose to take away the need to want to improve. Yes, when you are thrown into a wf with nothing more than a short description of the warfront, it might be a little overwhelming at first.

    Overall, I'm rather disappointed and not really looking forward to the expansion. But hey, with so many players buying the expansion before all of the details are released, what's one unhappy customer...
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Hey folks,

    Starfall Prophecy draws closer, and there is a ton of stuff coming that will impact all RIFT players. We wanted to take a moment and share some of the details about PvP specific content, beyond the Legendary Powers and Planar Fragments that we’ve already covered.

    We’ll reset ELO scores with the launch of Starfall Prophecy. That gives everyone a chance to start fresh, and earn scores that relate to their skills now, without any impact from historical data. Make the most of it!

    PvP Content
    In RIFT there are three broad types of PvP content: Open World, Warfronts, and Conquest (not counting other ways players can engage in PvP, with things like duels and PvP Dimensions). Within each of these types are multiple activities, leading to spreading out both developmental resources and the PvP population. By far the most popular form of PvP in RIFT (currently and historically) have been Warfronts, with all other types of PvP trailing WFs by a significant margin.

    Within Warfronts there’s also a big spread of 11 different types of maps/modes, each with their own win conditions and means of awarding points. Different teams will often employ different strategies from match to match on the same map, depending on both team composition and personal preference. This is an enormous amount of information to learn and understand; someone who is interested in joining the PvP community has to learn a lot of different WF Maps, how CQ functions, why certain abilities are preferred in PvP over PvE, how certain abilities differ in scale of effect from PvE and PvP content, and why they keep getting jumped on by Assassins while trying to quest on Seastone or Bloodiron. It has proven daunting and frustrating for many.

    In short, the amount and variety of content makes getting new folks into PvP way harder, and makes it less fun to play with newer members of the PvP community while they try to learn the myriad of details needed just to function at a basic level in PvP. We’ve not even begun to talk about finer strategy or what team compositions are dominating the metagame at the moment. As PvP is very much a group activity, anything which makes it harder for new people to get involved also makes things less fun for people currently involved.

    So how do we plan to address these issues in Starfall Prophecy? We’ve decided to streamline the amount of PvP content that is available at any time. This makes it easier to learn what to do in PvP, and makes the experience richer, more fun, and more rewarding for all participants.

    In Starfall Prophecy, PvP in RIFT is about Warfronts. While we love Open World PvP and Conquest, focusing our attention (and yours) means better PvP. During normal weekdays we’ll have the following Warfront Maps open:

    · Codex
    · Black Garden
    · Blighted Antechamber
    · Library of the Runemasters

    We plan to rotate maps in and out of this list over time, as well as special event weekends where a specific map not on this list is opened. This maintains variety, but keeps the options to a much more manageable level.

    PvP Queues
    At launch, we’re going to expand the top level PvP Queue to include the 65-70 level range. Everyone participating will be mentored to level 70, and all gear(aside from Warmongers items above the bolster limit, see below) will be bolstered. This is to provide the maximum opportunity for everyone to participate in PvP as folks go through the leveling process. In the future, we have plans to introduce a high level PvP Queue that functions more similarly to the 65 queue now, but that will come after launch.

    PvP Itemization
    One frequent topic of discussion since the launch of Nightmare Tide has been PvP itemization, and how PvP items compare to downbolstered items that exceed the limits of item power in PvP. In Starfall Prophecy, PvP will continue to be itemized in a manner similar to how it is now, with one very important addition.

    One thing that was added with Update 3.7 that we hadn’t discussed yet was the ability for items to ignore bolster limits. Currently the only items that this applies to are Warmonger’s Trinkets, since they are actually more powerful than the current bolster ceiling allows. We plan to continue to expand on this in Starfall Prophecy. Warmonger’s gear that is of a tier that would normally be downbolstered will ignore the bolster ceiling and continue to utilize their full stat potential in PvP. New Warmonger’s gear will be the best items in a given slot for PvP.

    Which items we make available and how many slots they will occupy is still being finalized, but Warmonger’s gear will be extremely desirable for those seeking maximum effectiveness in PvP. New tiers of Warmonger’s gear will continue to roll out as we introduce more powerful content and release new tiers of normal gear to continue this trend.

    Better PvP For All
    Together, these three changes, along with raising the level cap, Legendary Powers, and Planar Fragments, represent an opportunity for us to address many of the issues that we’ve heard from you about how you would like to see PvP progress. Better matches, better teammates, and better items all combine to a better PvP experience in RIFT.
    this must be a joke right?im not even sure what to say

    By far the most popular form of PvP in RIFT (currently and historically) have been Warfronts

    then why on earth "cut" wfs out?i got news for you rift is not bringing in new pvpers and with a few low level wfs q's one could learn said wfs very easy.to bad you guys killed off low level wfs so "new players" cant learn how to play like they can running low level dungeons/raids....
    i think cutting wfs down is just a way to pigeon hole the very low pop of rift into a handful of wfs and cover up its problems.

    PvP Itemization
    New Warmonger’s gear will be the best items in a given slot for PvP.
    Which items we make available and how many slots they will occupy is still being finalized, but Warmonger’s gear will be extremely desirable for those seeking maximum effectiveness in PvP.

    really?your telling us that only a few warmonger items will be bis for pvp?again are you joking?why not just make any and all warmongers gear bis for pvp and be done with it-whats stopping you from this?not good.

    bolstering is broken and you guys know it

    explain this to me and yes i posted this in another thread
    i swapped out a pair of T2 cp legs for a pair of T2/warmonger AP legs,zoned into a wf and had the same amount of CP i had before i swapped out the legs = broken. how in hell does that happen?

    what about new pvp runes?what about getting rid of the dam rng wf box?are you going to update level 60 pvp consumables?no cq?no open world pvp?all your telling us is that your cutting back pvp do to player population and dev time.a few items will be bis for pvp but your not sure what ones or how many. "we want change" "Read my lips: no new taxes" thats what i take from all of this

    one thing you failed to address - is a pvp only player going to be left far behind gear wise like we are on live? handing in a few "very few" pvp weekly's to earn said marks so we can upgrade our "pvp" gear takes to long. by the time a pvp only player gets everything upgraded a new tier of gear is out, this is broken and i do not see/read where you guys are addressing it. handing in 4 pvp weeklys like we have on live does not allow a player to upgrade his gear in a timely manner. we will need new pvp weekly's/more pvp ways to earn "abyssal crusader's marks".
    Last edited by butkus; 10-12-2016 at 04:51 PM.
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  13. #58
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    As with expansions, your old currency does not translate over. You'll need to earn new SFP warmonger marks to buy SFP warmonger gear. It's fairly standard practice to require new currency for new gear.
    will the existing warmonger gear upgrade (with the new currency) to the new warmonger gear, or will it be a fresh set of purchases?
    (note: some of us pvpers don't actually have much warmonger gear, because to date it has been faster/better to get the higher tiered pve gear through weeklies/raiding).

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    Yes, you can acquire fragments through PVP.

    Fragments will be subject to some level of bolster as well. Fragments are basically items just like your breastplate or helm except that they bend just about every single rule that governs items in code. As such, we have to put in additional bolstering requirements/tech for them. This isn't exactly set in stone yet due to the complexity of fragments. The end result will be the same as stated in the original message in this thread that gear will be normalized through bolstering and planar fragments are included as gear.
    will the new warmonger gear use fragments?
    will there be warmonger fragments? (yes, I know you said fragments will be obtained in pvp, not necessarily the same thing, though).
    will there be eternal warmonger gear?
    can I have a sandwich?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  14. #59
    Champion Azuli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riane View Post

    Basically, kinda like what other games do that have competitive seasons. Check out this post that Overwatch has that goes over their S2 stuff.

    Edit: Also, soul recalling out of a Warfront still counts as a loss towards. It will remove from your current Elo. Soul recall, leaving warfront, afk/votekick, and taking a guild banner will all give you a loss (and a debuff.)
    I get what it is about. However, the people with the highest ELO had level 65 characters already at the beginning of this expansion, and seldom play pvp on them- especially not solo.

    ...and Soul Recalls used to not count towards losses.
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post



    will the new warmonger gear use fragments?

    can I have a sandwich?
    Fragments have nothing to do with gear. They are an entirely separate entity. Fragments do not affect gear at all. Fragments in no way shape or form buff any type of gear. Fragments are their own gear. Fragments use their own slots, and do not go onto gear.

    This has been said many times before.

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