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Thread: Why all the crying about FK's?

  1. #1
    Telaran MakeClericsGreatAgain's Avatar
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    Default Why all the crying about FK's?

    Okay so first thing first- I want to make it very clear Frostkeepers are NOT immortal like some people choose to say that they are ---- The real problem comes down to people being bad or ignorant in pvp because you have been given all the tools available to kill any healer you choose.

    Learn and understand your roles and classes - Use HEALING DEBUFFS ( Believe it or not that is a major reason all healers die) use CC or PURGE properly ( Another reason an FK can die very easily - they DO NOT have unlimited CC removal, so timing it and bombarding any healer with cc the right way will work out) Any 2 good dps can kill a Frostkeeper if they know what their doing- problem is most people don't understand or use CC/Debuffs at the right times or the right way.

    Now I would like to talk about another issue here- Where do you people come off thinking that you should be able to kill a SINGLE TARGET healer as one single dps----- this is beyond stupid when you think about it. A single target healer strength should always be- > SINGLE TARGET HEALING and nothing else... meaning if you as 1 solo dps are able to kill a ST healer.... how is that fair? ask your self. The healers have to enjoy pvp too. they have already been nerfed into the ground bad enough. So if said healer dies to 1 dps, how in the world is that healer sopposed to heal a teammate. If you cannot even outheal 1 persons dps.. how in the world are you going to save anyone on your team ( most of the time the person you are healing IS NOT getting attacked by just one person) . Is common sense a superpower nowadays, or are people that selfish that they think they should be able to be a monster dps and kill anything they want, while healers have 0 fun and die from a sneeze?

    Now I will agree that Frostkeepers are strong and well rounded for pvp. This is not the issue because I DO NOT think they are overpowered. The issue lies in the fact that there are other healers that need to be looked at.....( COUGH* CLERICS NEED SOME LOVING IN PVP ) IF you look at why Frostkeepers are very strong compared to say a puri or senti - it is simply because they are mobile, while puri and senti are very bad at dealing with cc, interrupts and all that because they aren't as mobile. this is just a comparison- because puri and senti will put out amazing numbers and healing just as well, but because they don't have the tools to be as mobile and are susceptible to purges and interrupts more than other healers they fall short to Mage, Prima, Rogue, Warrior healing.

    So last thing I will say is that there are Primalist and Warrior healers that heal just as well and survive just as well if not even better (warriors) than Frostkeepers ---- The solution is not Nerfing it into the ground, the solution is to fix certain other healers like Puri and Senti etc., or give them the tools to be successful in pvp. Pls do not listen to the crying potatoes in pvp, and instead maybe bump up heals to where they should be.
    Last edited by MakeClericsGreatAgain; 10-05-2016 at 01:01 AM.

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    There are plenty of excellent healers and DPS who have already pointed out where and how the FK is blatantly overpowered. Your opinion is irrelevant, and is likely nothing but troll-bait.

    But thank you for sharing anyway.

  3. #3
    Telaran MakeClericsGreatAgain's Avatar
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    You must have a very high opinion of yourself Nefalia, I'm sorry to see that you are so full of yourself that you choose to just about call someone a troll and state their opinion is irrelevant. You can simply disagree with what I am saying here but I think you did not even read or understand what I'm trying to get across.

    Be smart in pvp and you can do what you need to do. I am asking for the big picture to change, not just NERF THIS and NERF that Because you have a very difficult time dealing with it in pvp. This does not apply to just heals- many people already have pointed out lots of other so called "broken" classes when it comes to dps/heals. I do not think you should ruin Frostkeepers because they are fine as is- learn to play against them. and fix Cleric healers in pvp because they are in a very sad state right now. Don't go backwards in heals while keeping the dps bursts the same ( there are people hitting for 15-20k hits at times in pvp, how far do the healing nerfs have to come before they stop) Improve some of the other ST healers instead, Cleric and Rogue come to mind that are underperforming.

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    I'll save everyone some time :

    "If an healing soul isn't LITERALLY INVINCIBLE, it's not overpowered".




    Quote Originally Posted by MakeClericsGreatAgain View Post
    The solution is not Nerfing it into the ground, the solution is to fix certain other healers like Puri and Senti etc., or give them the tools to be successful in pvp.
    Yawn, another "FK aren't the problem, the problem is that every healing soul should be as strong as FK!".

    I REALLY hope that your next thousand warfronts have 3-5 geared FK on the enemy team.

    Then you'll know what it'd be like if every healer was """balanced""" like FK.



    Quote Originally Posted by MakeClericsGreatAgain View Post
    it is simply because they are mobile
    Well I feel bad arguing with you now, you know what you're talking about.
    I mean it's well known that the #1 thing that makes Frostkeeper strong in PVP isn't that they have 2x the healing output of most of the other healing specs, or that it takes 2-3 solid DPS'ers (4-6 average ones) to take them down, or 2/3 of the entire ****ing team if there's crosshealing going on.

    It's only because they're mobile!

    Yeah when an FK in whitefall just waltz into the enemy team just for ****s&giggles and then walks back unharmed, you know it was only allowed by their great mobility.

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    You play but don't appear to have come across a properly played FK in PVP. We know what they are like. Your are trolling....2 posts..yeh. They are way over powered. Play on EU and find out to your cost. Be smart all you like but it will be you who has salty tears when you find that many players focusing together and being smart cannot take down one player.

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    Where do you people come off thinking that you should be able to kill a SINGLE TARGET healer as one single dps----- this is beyond stupid when you think about it. A single target healer strength should always be- > SINGLE TARGET HEALING and nothing else... meaning if you as 1 solo dps are able to kill a ST healer.... how is that fair? ask your self. The healers have to enjoy pvp too. they have already been nerfed into the ground bad enough. So if said healer dies to 1 dps, how in the world is that healer sopposed to heal a teammate. If you cannot even outheal 1 persons dps.. how in the world are you going to save anyone on your team ( most of the time the person you are healing IS NOT getting attacked by just one person
    So much wisdom!

  7. #7
    Telaran MakeClericsGreatAgain's Avatar
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    @somerandomnamee

    lmao really? you are going to take something like me saying FK's are mobile out of context and completely ignore everything else ive mentioned- that they ARE very strong healers ( or anything else that is already common knowledge) Instead of coming in here and talking trash -read everything. Instead you take the way of *reading everything with ADHD disorder*.

    If you look, I am using FK to Cleric as a comparison. Senti and Puri are not as mobile- so to explain to you slowly so maybe you can absorb the information >>>>> Mobile Classes will always have the option to take less dmg in pvp and here is the reason why....im just shocked you haven't realized this.... Any form of disconnect or disruption to a DPS ( a melee dps especially) is a dps loss, meaning a healer that is mobile can heal on the run and use objects to break line of sight etc (meanwhile keeping the heals up). DUH. Amazing right? So next time you decide you want to act like a big shot on ze interwebz, be a little more carefull of what you say because there is already enough stupidity out there.
    Last edited by MakeClericsGreatAgain; 10-05-2016 at 01:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeClericsGreatAgain View Post
    @somerandomnamee

    lmao really? you are going to take something like me saying FK's are mobile out of context
    How exactly is it out of context? It's exactly what you said, just removed the fluff/********.

    Here it is "in context"

    I will even color code it.
    Green = the stuff you say was taken "out of context"
    Blue = the fluff that means nothing/is irrelevant with the issue at hand (FK's balance)
    Red = Flat out lies/ignorance/half-truths

    Quote Originally Posted by MakeClericsGreatAgain View Post
    I DO NOT think they [FK's] are overpowered. The issue lies in the fact that there are other healers that need to be looked at.....( COUGH* CLERICS NEED SOME LOVING IN PVP ) IF you look at why Frostkeepers are very strong compared to say a puri or senti - it is simply because they are mobile, while puri and senti are very bad at dealing with cc, interrupts and all that because they aren't as mobile. this is just a comparison-because puri and senti will put out amazing numbers and healing just as well, but because they don't have the tools to be as mobile and are susceptible to purges and interrupts more than other healers they fall short to Mage, Prima, Rogue, Warrior healing

    When I say that the big blob of red at the end of that quote is flat out lies/ignorance/-half-truth...
    Yeah, they might be more susceptible to this or that, but THAT'S ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT.
    A non-FK healer that isn't CC'ed or purged or hindered in any way at all will still pull DRASTICALLY lower numbers.

    That's like tying the shoes of a random kid and throwing him on the ring against an heavyweight champion and when he loses you say "Well of course he lost, he couldn't move his legs!".
    No, that's not why he lost.

    And the reason FK heal more than the other soul isn't because "they are more mobile" or "less susceptible to CC's" or whatever other nonsense you can come up with. It's just because the spec is stronger and heals more.

    Remove every single CC/purge/interrupt from the game and FK still heal more than the other healing specs and are WAY harder to kill.




    --

    Anyway, the rest of your post/s ("big shot on ze interwebz") makes it obvious you're just a kid or a troll. Hope you had your fun.

    If you're serious you just don't understand anything about the game. Even stuck in cement, FK would still be the strongest healer.

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeClericsGreatAgain View Post
    You must have a very high opinion of yourself Nefalia, I'm sorry to see that you are so full of yourself that you choose to just about call someone a troll and state their opinion is irrelevant. You can simply disagree with what I am saying here but I think you did not even read or understand what I'm trying to get across.

    Be smart in pvp and you can do what you need to do. I am asking for the big picture to change, not just NERF THIS and NERF that Because you have a very difficult time dealing with it in pvp. This does not apply to just heals- many people already have pointed out lots of other so called "broken" classes when it comes to dps/heals. I do not think you should ruin Frostkeepers because they are fine as is- learn to play against them. and fix Cleric healers in pvp because they are in a very sad state right now. Don't go backwards in heals while keeping the dps bursts the same ( there are people hitting for 15-20k hits at times in pvp, how far do the healing nerfs have to come before they stop) Improve some of the other ST healers instead, Cleric and Rogue come to mind that are underperforming.

    get used to it, some people get really upset when you disagree with them.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoMo1 View Post
    You play but don't appear to have come across a properly played FK in PVP. We know what they are like. Your are trolling....2 posts..yeh. They are way over powered. Play on EU and find out to your cost. Be smart all you like but it will be you who has salty tears when you find that many players focusing together and being smart cannot take down one player.
    I don't want name, but most of the well played EU FKs playing in groups. Some of them never solo. Either warrior`s pocket healers, have seen a few with BIA on, plus defend. This is already a big help to any healer. Or they queue with another healer, or small group and they support each other.
    I don't argue on FK`s power, but a better group will choose "the best" healer what is FK nowadays. And players in groups always works above average. If you understand how I mean this.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeClericsGreatAgain View Post
    You must have a very high opinion of yourself Nefalia
    I'm flattered that you noticed.

    You can simply disagree with what I am saying here but I think you did not even read or understand what I'm trying to get across.
    You can take the time to read just the latest topic regarding the FK. The problems with the FK have been analyzed, explained, argued, and debated by some of the Rift's top PvP players here:

    - http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...vp-please.html (currently resting at 226 posts)
    - http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...idiculous.html (locked at 214 posts)
    - http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...-still-op.html (locked at 122 posts)
    - http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...er-nerfed.html (locked at 313 posts)
    - etc....

    I do understand what you are trying to say, and I disagree whole-heartedly. If you want to know why, do a little bit of reading.

    I do not think you should ruin Frostkeepers because they are fine as is- learn to play against them. and fix Cleric healers in pvp because they are in a very sad state right now. Don't go backwards in heals while keeping the dps bursts the same ( there are people hitting for 15-20k hits at times in pvp, how far do the healing nerfs have to come before they stop) Improve some of the other ST healers instead, Cleric and Rogue come to mind that are underperforming.
    The Sentinel may need a boost, but the Warden and the Purifier are doing rather well. I've seen Cleric healers performing well in Warfronts, and have said performances captured in my videos (Collision and Solidarity, for instance). Chloros and Phys do quite well in the hands of a skilled healer, as do Warchanter/Liberator hybrids.

    The current healing meta is generally fine*. Boosting all other ST healers to the level of the FK would accomplish two things:

    1) Render AoE healers obsolete, as the FK currently outperforms AoE souls in zerg environments.

    2) Make warfronts boring heal-fests where getting more than a few deaths is cause for celebration.

    People have made exaggerrations regarding the immortality of the FK, and that has not been helpful to productive discussion. But the reality remains that the FK's resilience is greatly overtuned, as is it's healing output in general.

    * Some souls, such as the Sentinel, can definitely use some adjustment. But in regards to the healing meta, the Sentinel and FK are outliers in the opposite ends of the spectrum. Buff Sentinel. Nerf FK.


    Edit: Really, do go and read up on the issue. There is plenty of actual data within the previous discussions that will highlight just why and how the FK is broken.
    Last edited by Nefelia; 10-05-2016 at 04:16 AM.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple hell0w33n's Avatar
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    Idk, it's such a delicate subject ...
    I'm also part of the "don't nerf this, instead, buff that" train ... but ...

    Well, for starters, FKs arent SO far ahead of several healing souls, but they indeed are ... so I expect pvp reductions - meaning that buffing the others (Puri, Chloro and Sent mainly) wouldn't solve the matter.

    Lib/Chanters are about the same level, Preservers (been a while since I don't play it, but) I think aren't t00 far either. Idk what's up with Physician (actually Phystact, to be more specific), Idk if it's how you are gearing or what, but It's highest ST heal(ing spell - not hps per se) I've seen so far.

    Puri and Sent tho, I feel like they are way behind, along with chloro even with FK lower tree ... So yeah, indeed these 3 should be seeing some love, PvP-wise ... Sentinel specially PvE-wise.

    BUT not forgetting that 4.0 coming ... legendary skills, scaling up to lvl 70 ...
    It's gonna be basically another game ...
    They already announced that Tactician is being led towards AoE healz.
    In another words, everything is gonna change - we will HAVE to wait for 4.0, there's no other choice - then we can decide on what we QQ'ing.

    All in all, I think we had way worst situations on pvp and issues that were persistent and never fixed (some of them, not until recently that is) - and issues that never been really issues, but were "fixed" anyway. PvP folks just like compaining bout stuff.

    Me, as a mage, could be complaining on how Warlock, Necro and Dominator are so far behind everything ... 3 dead and useless souls in one calling.
    But I choose not to, cause 4.0 is coming, thus all current "balance" will be gone forever.

    Idk what else could be said about FK, the majority believes it's way overpowered, yet all complaints seem to differ in a way or another. Honestly the only complaints I take seriously are when in comparision to other healers (depending on the comparision, ofc.).

    Because no one wants to be so far behind, and me as a Chloro on pvp - perfectly understand it.
    "the first step is asking yourself 'why am I here?'.
    is it for the memes?"

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    I might buy Trion

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    Quote Originally Posted by hell0w33n View Post
    ...snip...
    Out of curiousity, which elements of the Chloro do you feel needs some boosting/adjustment?

  14. #14
    Champion of Telara McChaffe's Avatar
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    FK's overtuned. That's a fact.

    Mobility, raw numbers and potential damage mitigation on it are ridiculously strong in a PvP environment.
    Everything after Storm Legion was a mistake. ()

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple hell0w33n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefelia View Post
    Out of curiousity, which elements of the Chloro do you feel needs some boosting/adjustment?
    Well, to name a few issues;

    The ONLY frontline healer comes to mind.
    The ONLY frontline healer that ONLY haz Bloom as instant ST healing spell.
    The ONLY frontline healer with ONLY one St instant healing spell, that is INCAPABLE of dealing same the hps to himself compared to allies (in another words can't synth himself).

    Even if you add (a little, literally, little) survivability from lower FK tree, such as Fozen Barrier let's suppose - it can still be purged rendering it useless on current meta (where every class basically haz a purge, specially strong specs such as MM and Maelstrom/Jumpalist).

    Chloro requires the highest skill floor to be played on pvp ... and (most likely) even on pve (as most other mage souls - yet people give mages sh** when we finally get something ez like Elementalist - that still requires at least 5 buttons to be played properly).

    All in all, we are on the same side ...
    Last edited by hell0w33n; 10-05-2016 at 05:42 AM. Reason: still learning english :3
    "the first step is asking yourself 'why am I here?'.
    is it for the memes?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Baald View Post
    I might buy Trion

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