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Thread: Frostkeeper still ridiculous

  1. #31
    Ascendant Xclvsive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artewig View Post
    LOL that's the ss I was looking for. I didn't nab it hahah
    ~Xclusive
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  2. #32
    Rift Chaser Xamaron's Avatar
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    Many times i have found myself in a situation where i will be in a 1v1 or 1v2 and have an opponent down to around 20% hp, now if any healer showed up other than a frostkeeper i am able to finish off that opponent (with exception of defiler unstable transformation or perhaps a skilled purifier). In the case where a frostkeeper shows up the said player suddenly becomes invincible, their hp back to full within seconds whilst toting some potent absorbs, the chance to finish that player off became totally nullified the moment the FK popped around the corner. Sure this is anecdotal but when i observe this on a regular basis it is not incorrect to assume that there is some major imbalance at play.

    The way i see it the people defending frostkeeper here are white knighting their imbalanced soul because it gives them an unfair advantage in pvp.

    The evidence that frostkeeper is unbalanced in pvp is simple to find if you do regular warfronts.
    Look at the demographic of healers in warfronts, a majority are playing frost keeper. I think its safe to say that they are not just playing it because its a shiny new spec considering it already been out for several months.

    As for toning down paragon.... lol.

    If you play a mage just stick with harbinger for melee, dont even bother rerolling a warrior because you will be in for a rude shock.
    Dispatched@laethys

  3. #33
    Ascendant Jeremiahcp's Avatar
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    Eternal Preservation can easily be interrupted, not just by interrupts but by CC as well. Which is one of reasons I don't even spec into it.

    I am more incline to listen to a DPSer about FK, if he or she can demonstrate an understanding of spec. However, generally people complain about skills they read on the tool tip and thought was overpower, but they never actually tried it out in the WF for themselves.

    These are the skills I hear people complaining about:

    Eternal Preservation - Nerf it all you want, the spell is not that great, and I don't even use it.

    Transcendent Abjuration - If you think this spell is OP, that is becuase you have never used it in the WF.

    Infuse Magic - This spell has been nerfed so much that if you still consider it OP, the problem might be you are not the DPSer you think you are.

    Earthmending - The nerfs to this spell have made me wonder if maybe I should trade it for Resurgence.

    Ride the Wind - Most FKs don't use it, they have Earthwalk, but people like to complain about Ride the Wind every chance they get.

    The people who complain the loudest about FK are generally the people that understand it the least. They don't really understand what abilities are giving them trouble so they grab on to what they think is OP and start hollering about that skill.

    As far as there being more mages on the WF somehow proving it is OP, well that is not proof, actual data is proof, not how mages you saw in a WF
    Last edited by Jeremiahcp; 07-31-2016 at 12:13 PM.

  4. #34
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    I don't happen to play frostkeeper but I do know that I change spec in war fronts to suit the situation. Even if a certain spec hits like a wet noodle..treat it as support and do the job required instead of saying you cannot lower yourself to use it. If you started doing that in a raid in PVE and had the ability to do the spec..then you would not be raiding long. Things are as they are at the moment.

  5. #35
    Rift Master Nasacrim's Avatar
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    U dumbos. Regardless of healing debuffs, specs or w/e warrior needs, FK is still out of the line as a PvP healer.

  6. #36
    Rift Disciple Lulutala's Avatar
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    Frostkeeper still needs to be looked at, it's still the most dominant heal spec after how many nerfs? The fact that pretty much every single duo/premade is using this heal spec right now says it all.

    I'm sorry to say but it isn't "leetpvpskills" that allow you to do well when you play FK, it's just the spec.

    Also i'd be confident in saying 90% of the mages currently healing in FK never touched chloro when that was the only mage heal soul.

  7. #37
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    Thank you for calling me dumbos. I'm sure it makes you feel better.

    Again I say people will not use the counter because they don't want to. Things are as they are at the moment but I'm sure they will be looking at things relating to FK. They said so in their twitch. Then they will look at the next op spec to apply the nerf bat. It may be warrior..cleric..who knows. It all depends on who makes the loudest noise doesn't it.

  8. #38
    Rift Chaser Xamaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiahcp View Post

    As far as there being more mages on the WF somehow proving it is OP, well that is not proof, actual data is proof, not how mages you saw in a WF

    Yes because demographic is not a valid form of data . So a majority of the healers in warfronts which are playing FK clearly suggests nothing about the effectiveness of the soul in PvP in comparison to other healing souls?

    FYI eternal preservation is not an issue, of course even a semi skilled player will see this channel and promptly interrupt it.

    Infuse magic is no longer a major issue either if said player knows how to watch for it.

    What needs to be looked at is the abundance and ease of HoT stacking, the effectiveness of FK barriers in PvP, and yes Earthmending which is disproportionately powerful considering the ease of its use, an instant cast which basically provides an extremely powerful rolling HoT. Healing values of Rime and Earthen Renewal need to be looked at as well especially considering that Earthen Renewal can be spammed for 10 seconds every 45 seconds for what provides effectively the strongest direct sustained healing in the game across all souls.

    Diverting the topic of FK in PvP onto PvP soul specific healing debuffs does not address the problem of FK's being rampantly overpowered in PvP, all it is doing is providing a scapegoat excuse for leaving the soul imbalanced in PvP so mages can feel like they have some superior skill playing their overpowered single target healing soul without realising that it is not skill but the souls design which is the primary contributing factor into their performance with it in PvP.
    Last edited by Xamaron; 07-31-2016 at 06:24 AM.
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  9. #39
    Ascendant Jeremiahcp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xamaron View Post
    Yes because demographic is not a valid form of data . So a majority of the healers in warfronts which are playing FK clearly suggests nothing about the effectiveness of the soul in PvP in comparison to other healing souls?

    FYI eternal preservation is not an issue, of course even a semi skilled player will see this channel and promptly interrupt it.

    Infuse magic is no longer a major issue either if said player knows how to watch for it.

    What needs to be looked at is the abundance and ease of HoT stacking, the effectiveness of FK barriers in PvP, and yes Earthmending which is disproportionately powerful considering the ease of its use, an instant cast which basically provides an extremely powerful rolling HoT. Healing values of Rime and Earthen Renewal need to be looked at as well especially considering that Earthen Renewal can be spammed for 10 seconds every 45 seconds for what provides effectively the strongest direct sustained healing in the game across all souls.

    Diverting the topic of FK in PvP onto PvP soul specific healing debuffs does not address the problem of FK's being rampantly overpowered in PvP, all it is doing is providing a scapegoat excuse for leaving the soul imbalanced in PvP so mages can feel like they have some superior skill playing their overpowered single target healing soul without realising that it is not skill but the souls design which is the primary contributing factor into their performance with it in PvP.
    "an instant cast which basically provides an extremely powerful rolling HoT."

    Earthmending only ticks once every three seconds, and it moves to the person with the lowest health. Which given the erratic nature of hit points in the WF, it really just jumps to the next random person. While Resurgence is on a 10 sec CD, ticks once every second and all the healing goes to one target.

    I have tested them both extensively in the WF, and I know the pros and cons of both spells. The upside to Earthmeanding is that it functions an instant cast direct healing, which is really the only reason I still keep it over Resurgence (if you don't know that spell it is a chloro spell).

    If you are alone, with no allies around, then, only then, because it will not jump to the same person twice unless that person is the only available target, you'll get the second tick.

    But go for it, nerf Eathmending, it has it uses, but most FKs just spam it on CD to pad their HPS. It should never be spammed on CD, but it makes that HPS look nice, and people like that.

    " Healing values of Rime"

    Rime is not OP, and I am not even going to argue that one, as the spell is clearly not OP.

    " Earthen Renewal can be spammed for 10 seconds every 45"

    I assume you are talking about Cold Snap, and that is not actually how it works. The next four cast are instant cast. It also makes its so you can't be interrupted for 10s, of course instant cast spells can't be interrupted any ways.

    Let's not over look the fact that the Cold Snap cost 50 charge, which is a substantial charge cost, that limits the use of other charge abilities, like Infuse Magic, Entropic Veil, or if they have it, Ride the Wind.

    50 charge is a half our max charge, and I know non-mages may not think about the charge cost of spells, but as a mage charge management is important, and you can't just spam all your charge consuming spells at once.

    However, I'll give you a tip about Cold Snap. It only gives a 10 sec window for the mage to cast their four spells. So put it on a kalert, it is a buff, when you see a mage use it, smack them with a CC, and you'll have a very good chance of clipping off some of their instant casts.
    ---

    I know where FK's survivability is coming from, and as someone who has played the spec extensively, in my opinion, you all are complaining about the wrong skills.

    But if Trion continues to nerf FK based on the outcries of non-mage players, what is going to happen is FK will become ineffective at keeping other people up. That is the role of a healer in the WF, and if they keep nerfing the healing of FKs the only people they will be able to keep up are the three barrier targets and that is it.

    -----

    Here are some more tips about mages to help people out.

    They have a PA skill called Double Tap, that means when you interrupt ER the next one they cast is a rapid cast. However, this does not work against CC.

    They also have a PA skill that reduces the damage they take by 15% when you stun, root or silence them. It has a 15 sec CD. So if you have a root, use it to burn that.

  10. #40
    Ascendant DarkDaemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiahcp View Post
    Earthmending only ticks once every three seconds
    Welcome to all warrior HoTs other than Liberation Treatment and We are Unbowed

  11. #41
    Ascendant Jeremiahcp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDaemon View Post
    Welcome to all warrior HoTs other than Liberation Treatment and We are Unbowed
    Do they also only tick on a person once then move to another target, and have additional PvP nerfs?

  12. #42
    Ascendant Xclvsive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiahcp View Post
    Do they also only tick on a person once then move to another target, and have additional PvP nerfs?
    Do they heal for 8k/tick? lol

    Quote Originally Posted by MoMo1 View Post
    Thank you for calling me dumbos. I'm sure it makes you feel better.

    Again I say people will not use the counter because they don't want to. Things are as they are at the moment but I'm sure they will be looking at things relating to FK. They said so in their twitch. Then they will look at the next op spec to apply the nerf bat. It may be warrior..cleric..who knows. It all depends on who makes the loudest noise doesn't it.
    Warriors dont swap to reaver because reaver is less effective even with healing debuffs. What the **** do you think the outrage is for? To make drama? You obviously dont know warrior very well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiahcp View Post
    "an instant cast which basically provides an extremely powerful rolling HoT."

    Earthmending only ticks once every three seconds, and it moves to the person with the lowest health. Which given the erratic nature of hit points in the WF, it really just jumps to the next random person. While Resurgence is on a 10 sec CD, ticks once every second and all the healing goes to one target.

    I have tested them both extensively in the WF, and I know the pros and cons of both spells. The upside to Earthmeanding is that it functions an instant cast direct healing, which is really the only reason I still keep it over Resurgence (if you don't know that spell it is a chloro spell).

    If you are alone, with no allies around, then, only then, because it will not jump to the same person twice unless that person is the only available target, you'll get the second tick.

    But go for it, nerf Eathmending, it has it uses, but most FKs just spam it on CD to pad their HPS. It should never be spammed on CD, but it makes that HPS look nice, and people like that.

    " Healing values of Rime"

    Rime is not OP, and I am not even going to argue that one, as the spell is clearly not OP.

    " Earthen Renewal can be spammed for 10 seconds every 45"

    I assume you are talking about Cold Snap, and that is not actually how it works. The next four cast are instant cast. It also makes its so you can't be interrupted for 10s, of course instant cast spells can't be interrupted any ways.

    Let's not over look the fact that the Cold Snap cost 50 charge, which is a substantial charge cost, that limits the use of other charge abilities, like Infuse Magic, Entropic Veil, or if they have it, Ride the Wind.

    50 charge is a half our max charge, and I know non-mages may not think about the charge cost of spells, but as a mage charge management is important, and you can't just spam all your charge consuming spells at once.

    However, I'll give you a tip about Cold Snap. It only gives a 10 sec window for the mage to cast their four spells. So put it on a kalert, it is a buff, when you see a mage use it, smack them with a CC, and you'll have a very good chance of clipping off some of their instant casts.
    ---

    I know where FK's survivability is coming from, and as someone who has played the spec extensively, in my opinion, you all are complaining about the wrong skills.

    But if Trion continues to nerf FK based on the outcries of non-mage players, what is going to happen is FK will become ineffective at keeping other people up. That is the role of a healer in the WF, and if they keep nerfing the healing of FKs the only people they will be able to keep up are the three barrier targets and that is it.

    -----

    Here are some more tips about mages to help people out.

    They have a PA skill called Double Tap, that means when you interrupt ER the next one they cast is a rapid cast. However, this does not work against CC.

    They also have a PA skill that reduces the damage they take by 15% when you stun, root or silence them. It has a 15 sec CD. So if you have a root, use it to burn that.
    You're the only one defending fk. Give it up. And look at the thread & numbers.

    If everything got nerfed by 67%, not just infuse magic, its would probably still be better than other healers lol
    Last edited by Xclvsive; 07-31-2016 at 09:58 AM.
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  13. #43
    Soulwalker Teh Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiahcp View Post
    Eternal Preservation can easily be interrupted, not just by interrupts but by CC as well. Which is one of reasons I don't even spec into iy.

    /snip
    QFT.

    Only use on EP is really on last uninterruptible on Cold Snap to run away and survive.

    At this point, it really is about deciding whether to keep self alive vs someone else. Nowhere near as bad as release where there was no decision.

    Extent to which people are complaining about FK at this point is probably skill difference. Perma-one button classes vs. mages with 20 keybinds.

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  14. #44
    Ascendant Jeremiahcp's Avatar
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    "Do they heal for 8k/tick? lol" -Xclusivee

    It is closer to half that amount.

    http://imgur.com/a/geAFG

    Keep in mind that I am well geared.

    This really just reinforces my point, that the loudest objectors don't really know what they are talking about.

    *Edit - The SS was a cast with Natural Awareness, and Entropic Veil up.
    Last edited by Jeremiahcp; 07-31-2016 at 12:22 PM.

  15. #45
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiahcp View Post
    "Do they heal for 8k/tick? lol"

    It is closer to half that amount.

    http://imgur.com/a/geAFG

    Keep in mind that I am well geared.

    This really just reinforces my point, that the loudest objectors don't really know what they are talking about.
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