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Thread: Raid gears useless for PVP?

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    Plane Touched
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    Default Raid gears useless for PVP?

    From http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...aring-pvp.html

    Your PvE gear (even it it's best in slot! except seal & trinket) will be replaced with the base PvP gear if you wear it in a warfront!
    So why do people do raids if raid gears can only be used for raids? Is there some PVE activity that is harder than raids?

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    2 year old posts are pre-NMT expansion and out of date?

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    Ascendant DarkDaemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelin View Post
    From http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...aring-pvp.html



    So why do people do raids if raid gears can only be used for raids? Is there some PVE activity that is harder than raids?
    That thread is two fricking years old and is relevant to the last expansion, not this one.

    BiS raid gear is bolstered down and replaced with top end stats for PvP purposes, comparable to Warmonger gear, the current PvP BiS gear.

    People do raids because raid gear is powerful everywhere, and I like to do >100k on NTE bosses, tank/dps or heal with only dps abilities.

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    Rift Chaser DeLivia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelin View Post
    From http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...aring-pvp.html



    So why do people do raids if raid gears can only be used for raids? Is there some PVE activity that is harder than raids?
    Because they enjoy it? The progression, the gearing, the sense of accomplishment when you down a boss you've been dying to for weeks, the whole nine yards?
    .

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    Ascendant forbiddenlake's Avatar
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    I can't edit that thread anymore, but I did get it locked more than a year ago. It's no longer relevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by forbiddenlake View Post
    I can't edit that thread anymore, but I did get it locked more than a year ago. It's no longer relevant.
    Probably better to add in a line at the top 'THIS GUIDE IS OUTDATED' before locking it...
    There arent many new comprehensive guides so there's no other sources i can rely on other than older guides which might still be relevant...

    Is there an updated and detailed rift wiki?
    telarapedia.gamepedia.com and rift.zam.com's articles are too brief and sometimes outdated...

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDaemon View Post
    BiS raid gear is bolstered down and replaced with top end stats for PvP purposes, comparable to Warmonger gear, the current PvP BiS gear.
    So PvE gears will automatically be scaled to the PvP gear tier?

    Can these PvP gears be used for PvE?

    Should i bother with PvP gears, or just work towards BIS PvE gear?
    Last edited by Angelin; 02-24-2016 at 07:56 AM.

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    You know how much false hope you've given people with that thread linking another one?
    Monster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelin View Post
    So why do people do raids if raid gears can only be used for raids? Is there some PVE activity that is harder than raids?
    Well this was an old post, and as of now raid gear is BiS in PVP, which is completely ******ed, but apparently you seem to think this is the right way to make things work, so heh.

    Without going over the million reasons why it's just ****ing stupid that PVE-earned gear is better than PVP-earned gear in PVP... You know you could just flip your question around and ask, why do people do PVP if pvp gear can only be used as...
    Well it can't really be used for anything.
    Gear up for NTE I guess?
    Such a great system. Hit 65, get carried in PVP by doing nothing for a couple weeks until your teams give you some basic gear, use that basic gear to do NTE, use NTE gear to do raids, use that raid gear to do higher raids, and thennnnnnn come back to PVP.

    I'm pretty sure Trion ( and everyone else ) could figure out what ****ing piece of garbage that system is by simply sending a poll to everyone who logs in game this week, asking only one question;

    What do you want to spend most of your time doing in Rift?
    1) PVP only
    2) PVE only
    3) PVP and PVE equally

    When they'd receive the results and see that about 90% of the pop only want to PVE, about 9% only want to PVP, and the remaining 1% want to raid T3 then PVP intensively...

    Yeah maybe they'd figure out how ****ing stupid that is and how it pleases next to no one.

    Most people are either 100% pve or 100% pvp.
    And regardless of people's preference, it's stupid to hand out gear in some kind of gameplay that is BiS in other kind of gameplay.


    Of course PVE'ers have it easy now because they can dominate PVP without actually going through the PVP grind ( which is basically "get destroyed for a couple months until you get your gear upgraded ), and when they're done with raids, they hop in their first PVP game and they're instantly the best geared player in the game.

    So they won't complain about it, but it's as ****ing stupid as would be to I don't know, giving T4 gear for building dimensions.
    Or giving warmonger weapons to people who roleplay a lot on Faeblight.


    One activity has nothing to do with the other, thus should not give you gear that will make you dominate in that other activity.
    Last edited by somerandomnamee; 02-24-2016 at 08:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by somerandomnamee View Post
    raid gear is BiS in PVP
    If we're going with a full set of gear, this isn't true.

    BiS in PvP is a mix of gear.

    Warmonger Weapons (particularly for clerics and mages) > downbolstered
    PvP trinkets > Raid Trinkets (especially T3)
    PvP neck/cape > T3 neck/cape (for the three piece bonus)
    Flamesource/Dreamsource procs are BiS in PvP but lousy for PvE
    Rotward procs are reasonably good in PvP but completely lousy for PvE

    Warmonger armor and other accessories are inferior to downbolstered (T2 relic or T3) pieces, but not significantly. A full set of warmonger gear, with the previously mentioned pieces, is superior to a full set of T3 downbolstered gear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLivia View Post
    Because they enjoy it? The progression, the gearing, the sense of accomplishment when you down a boss you've been dying to for weeks, the whole nine yards?
    .
    I'm new to this game and has never done raids before, but i'm assuming u only get the raid gear AFTER defeating the boss multiple times? So you have already accomplish the feat of defeating the boss before u get your raid gear. So things would become easier after getting the raid gear. If you truly enjoy raids, why would u want to wear the best raid gear and make the challenge easier than before?

    The thing about PvE is, Trion has to keep making stronger bosses with new mechanisms to keep it a challenge for players, whereas in the case of PvP, since you are competing with other players you don't need new content to make it more challenging, you just need to find better players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelin View Post
    I'm new to this game and has never done raids before, but i'm assuming u only get the raid gear AFTER defeating the boss multiple times? So you have already accomplish the feat of defeating the boss before u get your raid gear. So things would become easier after getting the raid gear. If you truly enjoy raids, why would u want to wear the best raid gear and make the challenge easier than before?

    The thing about PvE is, Trion has to keep making stronger bosses with new mechanisms to keep it a challenge for players, whereas in the case of PvP, since you are competing with other players you don't need new content to make it more challenging, you just need to find better players.
    Because there are multiple, sequential bosses and multiple tiers.

    You need gear from a previous tier to successfully make the various checks of the first boss of the next tier, and generally need gear from the initial bosses to make the checks of the final bosses of the current tier.

    Gear widens the window for execution and performance. It makes things smoother and more forgiving. It's not just about the process of an attempt at killing a raid boss, the kill itself is important too. The feeling of a smooth execution, a decent recovery from failure, and above all, the triumph of actually killing the raid boss makes raiding enjoyable. Above all, gear is a reward for an enjoyable activity. It's both the fruit of weeks of effort and a status symbol.

    If you're a weird masochist that raids solely because it's challenging, and not because you like success, you might as well remove half your gear and commit suicide at 5% to prolong a boss.
    Last edited by DarkDaemon; 02-24-2016 at 09:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDaemon View Post
    If we're going with a full set of gear, this isn't true.

    BiS in PvP is a mix of gear.

    Warmonger Weapons (particularly for clerics and mages) > downbolstered
    PvP trinkets > Raid Trinkets (especially T3)
    PvP neck/cape > T3 neck/cape (for the three piece bonus)
    Flamesource/Dreamsource procs are BiS in PvP but lousy for PvE
    Rotward procs are reasonably good in PvP but completely lousy for PvE

    Warmonger armor and other accessories are inferior to downbolstered (T2 relic or T3) pieces, but not significantly. A full set of warmonger gear, with the previously mentioned pieces, is superior to a full set of T3 downbolstered gear.
    I was aware of the warmonger weapons but I didn't know about the other items, first time I see this mentioned.

    That being said, this is only part of the problem.
    And the other one being, when tiers are added to the games, PVE'ers are already at that BiS ) or 'almost BiS' point. because their gear is so far ahead the bolster level that even with 1 more tier, they're still above.

    So patch it, and they're already near BiS, while the PVP'ers now have to start grinding for the new tier.

    This is why you don't mix **** like that, it just brings lot of issues/unbalances, and mostly, unfairness.

    Hell, if they don't want to go with some 'valor/vengeance' stat like they had at first... Just make all gear the exact same.

    Make it twice as long to earn in PVP than PVE if you don't want the raiding experience to be 'cheapened' by people doing PVP to clear raid faster, I wouldn't mind.

    But at least the people who like PVP only and don't want to raid would eventually get all the best gear in a reasonable(ish) amount of time.

    And also (I know I'm throwing a bunch of issues together here, but it's all linked now due to the gear merge thingy)... The thing is that, by making the pve gear better (at least some pve gear better) in PVP, this basically says PVP isn't as important as PVE.
    Even hardcore PVP'ers won't have the best gear, they have to play "the real game" raids.. So, if PVP is just a minigame, why do we have to deal with the same **** ( no stacked charge unless you patron, can't choose map, all that crap ) as PVE?

    If they make us go through that same garbage, it should reward us equally. You want PVP'ers to pay for patron to get a good gaming experience? Then give us gear that makes it worth our $ to 'sub' for you, no crap gear 1 tier behind PVE at every expansion.

    The downbolster kinda fix the problem in pvp (kinda) but if you want to do anything else (NMR, some achievements, nightmare saga, etc.. ) your pvp gear will always be crap compared to some guy who would've been doing PVE instead.

    And while one could reply "Well duh, you're talking about a PVP'er who want to do some PVE-y stuff, obviously, his gear won't be on par!"... if that is so obvious, why can a PVE'er just hop in a PVP game and obliterate everything?

  12. #12
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    Sorry, OP. You are coming to the game when the population is dropping. Before the player base cared a bit more. Now if you are looking for the right information I'm not sure you will find most updated info.

    You can try to use google and sort by the most recent and check it out, but your best bet is getting answers in game from players.
    dibs@pveshard
    RIP guyhax/horsesock

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    Quote Originally Posted by somerandomnamee View Post
    even with 1 more tier
    The current PvP tier is T2 PvE equivalent, with downbolstered stats a tad bit ahead of that.

    You earn PvE marks with PvP activities... In fact, you earn so many marks, you could have gotten at least three armor pieces from the store by now solely with warfronts and the four PvP weeklies. It's really easy to get at least 3k Fragments of Darkness a week (assuming you have patron) without killing a single T3 boss.

    You don't need to raid to get a set of gear that's BiS in PvP. The armor can be obtained through the store. Accessories drop from boxes, and can use a few AP/SP ones to make sure you don't go over CP cap. As I've said before, Warmonger weapons, trinkets, necks and capes are already BiS.

    Think of it from the point of view of a endgame raider. People that don't raid at all, but do chronicles, open world activities, experts, warfronts and all of their weeklies, at this point in time, can cap or come close to capping T3 marks and get all their armor pieces, without touching even T1 or T2 raids. Open world players can get the armor that we've spend hundreds of hours progressing for, with experts.

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    *Down bolster doesn't affect dream orbs meaning raiders t3-t4 gain a bonus of+50 in stats.
    *Warmonger trinkets have dungeon based procs nightmare tide which are just stat sticks although generally higher than t2 ones, t3 is disabled and provide better stats which is weird. dungeon trinks aren't really relevant
    *75% warmonger is BIS the other 25% is pve gear in t2 raids and such.
    *Warmonger weapons are t2 weapons with weak dot damage proc, weak additional damage proc, and in stats 2nd-3rd place compared to t2 pve unbolstered. -zerker proc maybe healing procs
    *With the trinket giving the warmonger bonus people don't need to buy warmonger ranged weapon which means they can equip t4 necklace and dream orb it done.
    Last edited by Magat; 02-24-2016 at 07:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magat View Post
    *Down bolster doesn't dream orbs which means raiders that t3 to t4 will get bonus stats lets say +50 in stats. Stats make raider the primal or omega/
    *Warmonger trinkets have dungeon based procs nightmare tide which are just stat sticks although generally higher than t2 ones t3 is disabled and provide better stats weird. rare
    *75% of warmonger gear can be BIS vs t2 but 25% of the other is BIS that pve gear in raids.
    *Warmonger weapons are t2 weapons with procs that aren't relic weak dot damage proc weak additional damage proc they can also be the second best third best in stats in T2 that's the PVP update. -zerker proc
    *With the trinket giving the warmonger bonus people don't need to buy warmonger ranged weapon which means they can equip and t4 necklace and dream orb it done.
    That actually hurt to read. Can you please... proofread?

    The difference between T3 and T2 dream orbs, at most, is 22 main stat and 9 offstat.

    Furthermore, a full set of downbolstered gear is unbalanced, and you need a few T2 pieces to balance out your CP.

    The difference between a crafted/warmonger/Empyrean core and a T2 trinket is huge. A warmonger trinket's proc can account for >5% of my DPS. T4 necks don't exist. Procs in general can be huge in PvP. Mine account for maybe 15% of my DPS. 500 main stat wouldn't make up for that. 1000 wouldn't.
    Last edited by DarkDaemon; 02-24-2016 at 05:42 PM.

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