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Thread: Stealth mechanics needs to be looked at.

  1. #1
    Plane Touched AVGVSTVS's Avatar
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    Default Stealth mechanics needs to be looked at.

    It's to easily abused, because it becomes totally unreasonable in numbers. we need to be able to knock them out of stealth trion.

    specifically hidden veil. I can't see why a company would allow someone to be attacked and not be able to pop them even if hit multiple times. it's to easy to pick and choose the most grimy times to attack placing the player in a forced to die situation.

    Being able to stealth for indefinite amount of time is unethical and presents issues and destroying wpvp equality. letting them /say /yell while they sit there waiting whilst not being able to pop them is a slap in the face.

  2. #2
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    You have a problem with a player doing absolutely nothing while he's waiting for a good opportunity?

    You know what else is a good opportunity? The other team fighting the zerg fight with +1 player because one of their enemy is doing nothing.

    And in a game where most people hit randomly, having 1 more player hitting randomly means that he'll likely hit a target already hit by someone else, bringing more focus fire to the game.

    Losing 1 player in the big fight is a huge deal, and combat-wise, assassin can't make up for this by their combat abilities, even considering he can 'pick a good opportunity".

    His team loses the fight, then he wait for someone to go solo and he jump him from stealth, kill him, and... his team still lost the fight so it doesn't really matter.

    Assassins are good at keeping points in dom maps because they aren't just killing, they're killing in a situation that gives A LOT of points for their team.

    But the whole "picking an opportunity" doesn't really make up for all their inactivity time in any other map.

    And on a general note, when you want to know if something is OP, just look at what people are using in pvp. People ALWAYS use the OP'est FOTM'est specs.

    For every 1 assassin in pvp games, you have like 1 bard, 1 random weird spec like ranger and like 10 marksman on average. This should tell you everything you have to know about how 'unreasonable' stealth is.

    Pumping out insane damage numbers 24/7 is unsurprisingly better than sitting around in stealth waiting for a good time to pump out damage numbers.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Linolea's Avatar
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    Play a rogue stealth class in PvP for a few WFs and get back to me on how OP it was. I get knocked out of stealth due to untargetted AoEs all the time. Smart players see when a dot disappears (you DO use recon vials, yes?) off their minimap and start AoEing the area like there is no tomorrow. Or they stealth themselves. Fun times.

    Is your idea of PvP two people standing face-to-face pounding each other till one falls over?

    I assume this was a troll post, but meh...

    PS> And what the previous chap said. I don't like ranged rogue is because I didn't roll a rogue to play ranger... and by that I mean any ranged role. I do on occasion, but I don't enjoy it, but then Trion expects you to play at least 3+ class role makeups to raid effectively, one being ranged DPS for those friendly AoE bosses...
    Last edited by Linolea; 02-22-2016 at 09:28 PM.
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    Plane Walker Hectyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somerandomnamee View Post
    You have a problem with a player doing absolutely nothing while he's waiting for a good opportunity?
    So a player in stealth mode doing absolutely nothing in a warfront is "waiting for a good opportunity"- yet when a player unstealthed doing the same thing is referred to as "afking"?

    In all honesty, Rift simply follows the conventions of other games by providing stealth specs because many players lack the confidence to approach a confrontation without thinking they have an advantage- and even more importantly- an easy way out when failure occurs, ala "Slip Away".

    Any player who engages an opponent from stealth has NO excuse whatsoever to lose that engagement when they can choose when, who & where to prompt the confrontation.

    What Rift needs are counters to stealth or stealth detection like the Beastmaster soul originally had- SWTOR and some other games have this implemented into their pvp metagame & it works rather well- as opposed to the Rift solution of "spam AOEs & hope you flush them out at some point".
    Last edited by Hectyr; 02-22-2016 at 09:31 PM.

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser DeLivia's Avatar
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    Yeah, nerf melee! Buff all ranged classes with easy access to CC instead.

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    Ascendant Rgizil's Avatar
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    I really wish the forums made it a requirement to post your in game toon names on the forums. Simply so I can avoid some people on these forums when they are doing wfs.
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  7. #7
    Ascendant Gilgad's Avatar
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    No.

    /10char

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    Ascendant Xclvsive's Avatar
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    Lol you guys are comparing sin to marksman on zerg maps, what about Domination? Take Techfall for example, I give him one thing, he chooses the right spec to play on each map, you don't see him in sin on zerg steppes and karthan zerg.

    Sin is ******ed on Domination maps, 1 good sin can be the deciding factor in dom maps and if that's the case than its a bit op, tbh perma stealth shouldn't exist, all stealth should be 30sec.
    Last edited by Xclvsive; 02-23-2016 at 04:39 AM.
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    What you really need to change is Harb's combat stealth that could be popped every 30s or so.
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    Ascendant Artewig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rgizil View Post
    I really wish the forums made it a requirement to post your in game toon names on the forums. Simply so I can avoid some people on these forums when they are doing wfs.
    I usually just go through their past posts. Like this OP has their ign in one of their posts.

    But yeah, stealth detection could be cool, but only for BM pets. I don't want to give an excuse for more Rangers.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xclusivee View Post
    Lol you guys are comparing sin to marksman on zerg maps, what about Domination? Take Techfall for example, I give him one thing, he chooses the right spec to play on each map, you don't see him in sin on zerg steppes and karthan zerg.

    Sin is ******ed on Domination maps, 1 good sin can be the deciding factor in dom maps and if that's the case than its a bit op, tbh perma stealth shouldn't exist, all stealth should be 30sec.
    Assuming you're talking about me ( given that I,m the only one who mentioned marksman and zerg ), I mentioned the bit about dom maps... "Assassins are good at keeping points in dom maps because they aren't just killing, they're killing in a situation that gives A LOT of points for their team. "

    But that's pretty much all they're good for. And to be honest they are insanely better at that than they actually should be, because there are literally zero teamwork/communication in warfronts.

    I also play assassin on these maps and it's not rare that I kill 5+ players solo at the same point and they keep coming one at a time. Either their team didn't tell them was there, or they didn't care. Given what I've witnessed from the other way ( me getting killed by a sin and telling my team ) it's probably the latter.

    Assassin would be good either way in these situations because for 1 assassin holding a point you basically need 2 players to come take it back (unless they outgear him or something ), so now you create a player advantage for your team, and you don't even have to die, you can just move to another point.

    But in any non-dom map, assassin just doesn't cut it. And in these maps the "waiting for an opportunity" usually just means, stealing a kill.

    That guy is at 40%, time to pop out of stealth! Yeah it worked, I killed him!
    He would've died anyway.
    He would've died even faster if you had been a marksman shooting him from the start and debuffing/purging.

    And yeah, assassins can win dom maps, but so can ranged specs win every other map, yet nothing is done about that. I mean you fix assassin ( aka nerfhammer it to the ground ), now what? marksman win in zerg maps like they've always done, and now they also win in dom maps?

    If they're gonna change this, it would be with something that involved teamwork/skill from the other team, not by nerfing the assassin stuff to the ground, imho.

    Make a spec that can detect them and fight them back, like I've seen in other games, I don't know.

    But as I've said, the real issue with this is that assassin ( and melee in general, especially for rogues ) is sub-par in maps that are actually about fighting 24/7.. Nerf that, and they are sub-par everywhere.

    And about the 'make all stealth 30 seconds'... Again, same problem. Why play melee then?
    I see marksmans with stealth all the time ( only need 4 points in NB, and these are "attack power/weapon damage" points so you don't really lose anything you could get elsewhere, these are good points ).

    Why play melee if you can play marksman, have the same 30 second stealth, have A LOT of utility, have range, insane big hitters from range, better CC's, better just about everything?

    I feel like ranged wins in like 80% of the maps and has unfair bull****s ( no GCD ranged long stun on 10 seconds cooldown..? ) as well, and I don't know why something has to be done with the 1 or 2 ******** things melee can pull in the remaining 20% of the maps.

    Remove the things that make an assassin what it is, and you're stuck with a terrible marksman with less utility and worse CC's who can't hit hard at range and not much advantage in melee whatsoever. Oh sure you slip away once every 2 minutes, which isn't even CLOSE to the survivability the marksman has, not just with abilities, but only by the fact that it's 35m away from the enemy.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple JICHAEL's Avatar
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    You can just zerg-crosshealing-range-fest the dom maps too. Hold the 3 objectives on Karthan or the 2 objectives in BG that is within the zergs vision and you win everytime, No need to wear down those WASD keys in this game.
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  13. #13
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by paragonfury View Post
    wtf??? I simply asked for the ultimate one button tempest macro without both torrents, not a fricken story book u nerds.
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  14. #14
    Rift Chaser Escadora's Avatar
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    The good old question I ask after reading complaints like this in chat.. "somebody died eh?"

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  15. #15
    Champion LSUdogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hectyr View Post
    So a player in stealth mode doing absolutely nothing in a warfront is "waiting for a good opportunity"- yet when a player unstealthed doing the same thing is referred to as "afking"?

    In all honesty, Rift simply follows the conventions of other games by providing stealth specs because many players lack the confidence to approach a confrontation without thinking they have an advantage- and even more importantly- an easy way out when failure occurs, ala "Slip Away".

    Any player who engages an opponent from stealth has NO excuse whatsoever to lose that engagement when they can choose when, who & where to prompt the confrontation.

    What Rift needs are counters to stealth or stealth detection like the Beastmaster soul originally had- SWTOR and some other games have this implemented into their pvp metagame & it works rather well- as opposed to the Rift solution of "spam AOEs & hope you flush them out at some point".
    no, there's a difference between afking and roaming for opportunities that help your team win. speaking as an assassin, we do lose our fair share of battles- most of the time it depends on the reaction time of the opponent. there's been times where i opened on players, and was like, "oh crap he's raid geared" and lose. and as far as your last point, there's a lot of aoe's that break our stealth; it happens to me all the damn time. it's all a matter of knowing what to do in certain situations. the OP's a guildie, but i'm always arguing with him about this issue with stealth, lol. the other night, we dueled 3 times. he won all 3: the first 2 by breaking me out of stealth and the 3rd by running off to heal, heh. instead of nerfing stealth, i vote we nerf tank heals!
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