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Thread: Remove Phantom blades and Grasp the horizon

  1. #31
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgad View Post
    I have a whole thread and 7+ screenshots dedicated to this comment.

    http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...list_____.html

    http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...ml#post5171264

    Have a good read before throwing out silly accusations.
    Thank you for the links but I was actually specifically just referencing this thread because I wasn't going to go out of my way to reference every available thread and post on the forums since x and y date.

    You aren't met with many posts in here agreeing because the problem isn't that those abilities exist--the problem is ranged is too powerful right now.

    You rely on a 30s nuke CD just the same as what you're complaining about.

    Do me a favor, why not play Dervish? You might actually realize why your suggestion to nuke these abilities is not a good idea to resolve any issue at all.

    And your other comment about MM/Pyro/Inq, did you miss out the several times where it's been stated that ranged is the issue? Are those souls not ranged anymore? Are you not reading replies in here?

    Also:

    Removing the PVP nerf on Skill shot.
    You realize that suggestion will just further contribute to the problem your OP is complaining about, right? Good Grief.
    Last edited by Riane; 02-05-2016 at 10:06 AM.

  2. #32
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    A good question to ask would be: why is Shaman doing so well despite the fact that it doesn't have anything like Grasp the Horizon or Phantom Blades?

    With 61 Shaman/ 11 Cabalist, I can spam 5 or more DoTs on potential targets to soften them up, then hit my selected victim with a snare/heal debuff, use my charge to close the gap and stun, and then unload my melee burst. If the situation starts going south, I can then port back to my zerg and soak up heals while spamming my ranged DoTs again.

    Give other melee better ranged options to soften up targets while planning and positioning for their approach and they may not need crutches like GtH/PB.

    As for those complaining about melee getting blasted by tab-targeting ranged players: My 72k HP Shaman can charge in and port out without dying on a fairly regular basis. I know it is not impossible to accomplish. A few things to remember when playing melee:

    - don't approach from the front, flank the enemy and approach/charge in from the sides
    - use obstacles to shield your approach if possible, do the same to shield your retreat
    - you are more likely to be left alone if you are behind the tab-targeters, especially if they are keyboard-turners; stay at the rear of the enemy zerg, and keep a port available to take you back into range of your healers if you get into trouble.

    The better DPS players will still root/CC you and crush you, but the majority of the DPS out there will keep focusing your team's bunny-hopping tank while you unload on their back-line healers.

  3. #33
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefelia View Post
    As for those complaining about melee getting blasted by tab-targeting ranged players: My 72k HP Shaman can charge in and port out without dying on a fairly regular basis. I know it is not impossible to accomplish.
    The answer to that is quite simple: You're referencing playing an unknown cleric to the PVP community the poses little to no threat outside of tab target fodder.

  4. #34
    Rift Chaser Xamaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgad View Post
    Paragon and Harbinger are melee specs, not 50/50. Melee specs should not be able to be ranged for 50% of the time.

    Logic.
    I understand removing harbingers phantom blades, not only does it grant them 30 meter range compared to paragons 20 meters from grasp the horizon but harbingers also have access to multiple CC breaks on short cooldowns, more uptime on run speed and the benefit of ranged cc's unlike a paragon.
    Dispatched@laethys

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riane View Post
    The answer to that is quite simple: You're referencing playing an unknown cleric to the PVP community the poses little to no threat outside of tab target fodder.
    The bulk of PvP player out there are 'unknowns', to be quite frank. The 'knowns' might receive more attention from the enemy, but they'll also receive more attention from friendly healers. It largely balances out.

    And none of this changes the usefulness of my advice, which boils down to: mix in with your zerg, strafe to their flank, and hit them from the side. Whether you are a known or unknown player, approaching from the front is just asking to be blown away... and yet I continue to see it happen on a regular basis - along with melee standing at the very front of the enemy zerg blasting away at one of their front liners.

    I'd like to see the ranged/melee meta improved as much as anyone else. But no tuning is going to make it any easier for those who don't know how to flank properly.

    Edit: Deep Freeze + MB + Jolt + MB/PS is not going to take a target out when the Shaman is as poorly gears as mine, but it will definitely drop targets that are already being harassed by others. I don't think I would ever dismiss a Shaman that made it to melee range.
    Last edited by Nefelia; 02-05-2016 at 11:46 PM.

  6. #36
    Plane Touched RealRyco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefelia View Post
    The bulk of PvP player out there are 'unknowns', to be quite frank. The 'knowns' might receive more attention from the enemy, but they'll also receive more attention from friendly healers. It largely balances out.

    And none of this changes the usefulness of my advice, which boils down to: mix in with your zerg, strafe to their flank, and hit them from the side. Whether you are a known or unknown player, approaching from the front is just asking to be blown away... and yet I continue to see it happen on a regular basis - along with melee standing at the very front of the enemy zerg blasting away at one of their front liners.

    I'd like to see the ranged/melee meta improved as much as anyone else. But no tuning is going to make it any easier for those who don't know how to flank properly.

    Edit: Deep Freeze + MB + Jolt + MB/PS is not going to take a target out when the Shaman is as poorly gears as mine, but it will definitely drop targets that are already being harassed by others. I don't think I would ever dismiss a Shaman that made it to melee range.
    how to flank properly
    in a tab-targeting system where everyone tabs nearest target? Dude, it doesn't matter if you come from the side, from the back, from the sky or jump out from the ground. As soon as your name appears on their screen, you're in focus. Do you even rift?
    Last edited by RealRyco; 02-06-2016 at 08:56 AM.

  7. #37
    Champion Sahtiaro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgad View Post
    Paragon and Harbinger are melee specs, not 50/50. Melee specs should not be able to be ranged for 50% of the time.

    Logic.
    Why not nerf Reaver...isnt Reaver the OP thing in this game?
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Sahtiar the Green Knight - Khalim'na
    ------------------------------------------------------

  8. #38
    Plane Touched RealRyco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahtiaro View Post
    Why not nerf Reaver...isnt Reaver the OP thing in this game?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X18mUlDddCc

  9. #39
    Ascendant Gilgad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riane View Post

    Do me a favor, why not play Dervish? You might actually realize why your suggestion to nuke these abilities is not a good idea to resolve any issue at all.
    Oh I do play dervish from time to time, but it's not worth it because it's strictly rotation based which is the only thing that makes it's dps viable and you can't really swap and change things as you want.

    Also, it has break free, that's it, the charge doesn't even remove movement impairing effects. To get the "stun" on a 45s CD, which you can't use when you want mind you because it's used at a specific part of the rotation, you have to lose 10s of cyclicism, which kills your damage.

    So not only does it have literally no utility or cc compared to other classes, the damage is atrocious too because of Dervish's design thus not making it viable.

    NOT because of ranged meta, but because of how obscenely terrible primalist is in PVP outside of preserver.
    Last edited by Gilgad; 02-06-2016 at 05:22 PM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealRyco View Post
    in a tab-targeting system where everyone tabs nearest target? Dude, it doesn't matter if you come from the side, from the back, from the sky or jump out from the ground. As soon as your name appears on their screen, you're in focus. Do you even rift?
    Pay attention:

    Step one, mix in with your zerg. This means you should be setting your target up while behind a few of your allies. Let the tab-targeters tunnel-vision on your allies, and then (and only then) move into your flanking maneuver.

    Unless you charge in from the front in an obvious fashion, there is no reason for them to switch targets until you are whacking at them from the middle of their zerg.

    Also, tab-targeting tends to select from the options in front of the tab-targeter. If you are to the side of behind the enemy DPS, no amount of spamming Tab will get them to target you. The 10 seconds it takes them to figure this out will buy you plenty of time.

  11. #41
    Plane Walker
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    Who cares. You people complain enough so changes get made and the people that suffer are the pve people.....so lets gather up all these tears and end the drought in los angeles.
    Last edited by kenx2020; 02-06-2016 at 07:37 PM.

  12. #42
    Telaran Simple Things's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgad View Post
    Oh I do play dervish from time to time, but it's not worth it because it's strictly rotation based which is the only thing that makes it's dps viable and you can't really swap and change things as you want.

    Also, it has break free, that's it, the charge doesn't even remove movement impairing effects. To get the "stun" on a 45s CD, which you can't use when you want mind you because it's used at a specific part of the rotation, you have to lose 10s of cyclicism, which kills your damage.

    So not only does it have literally no utility or cc compared to other classes, the damage is atrocious too because of Dervish's design thus not making it viable.

    NOT because of ranged meta, but because of how obscenely terrible primalist is in PVP outside of preserver.
    You really need to learn to play some or just step down from the dramaturgical level in all posts quite a bit, either way the world isn't going to end, brighten up.

    Primalist needs a tad more utility and fixed resists in pvp, extra breakfrees for melee are downright necessary too.

    Apart from that, vulcanist played in tightest roration actually hits decently hard in pvp, especially when both dots tick the moment skill shot lands and fury blast hits followed by stroke of brilliance, basic 15 second low burst but it does a good amount of damage. Fury blast beeing constantly up and 3 strokes of brilliance (hits about 1k less than skillshot so 10-12 vs 11-13k) 3 times in 15 seconds, the amount of dot ticks and 1s gcd hits + procs and weaponswings and the pretty decent set of bursts (3 a minute: avatar beacon, eb, eb and if rly needed just 2 windows: avatar beacon eb and eb) amount to a decent amount of killing blows.
    Been toplining kbs and damage in more warfronts than beeing behind in vulc and it's easy, stick to the rotation, stroke of brilliance and fury blast deliver the damage, if oyu just spam vorpal like a turd you will never get anyone down.

    Totally opposite for dervish, vulc isn't so bad in terms of predefined rotation and lack of flexibility, it's only 15 second blocks you need to pull off, combined in any order you wish.

    Dervish on the other hand, go look for my man grughaar, his dumbed down dervish rotation gives you an insight on how to dervish in pvp.
    It's aircutters and whirling/earthfall.
    hitting 10k+ aircutters every other second + 2 dots and big channels makes it quite the controllable killing machine in pvp, lack of extra break frees and added squish require good petheals and using the pull instead of facetanking but eh you can range attack lossless most of the time anyway so hurrrrrr.

    It's not hard to play, it hits pretty damn hard, the stun is really **** for beeing uncontrollable, not because of a rotation (pve rota dervish in pvp is bad) but because subduction is also a nice range filler, then again 2 charges and a pull (yes the war tree thingy counts as charge despite the cd) in short beeing decent at melee you would not have much trouble maintaining subduction as stun on demand.

    The crappy 2min self cd isn't too bad either and there's always ancestral force (yes people good at pvp use that to heal themselves, might wanna try).

    Decapitation over, bai.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elayara View Post
    I really would like to answer to that, but no matter how hard I try, I find no way to do that without tripping over some of the red lines that are in place here.
    So at least I cannot discuss anything I want here, even though it is not personal, no vendetta, no rant, no trolling - just a couple of facts I dare not mention here.
    QFT

  13. #43
    Telaran
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    Ah, I love these! Another case of "Nerf his class because I suck"
    Vmannn@Greybriar aka PvP God - Level 65 Warrior

  14. #44
    Ascendant Gilgad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simple Things View Post
    You really need to learn to play some or just step down from the dramaturgical level in all posts quite a bit, either way the world isn't going to end, brighten up.
    I mean you're telling the top primalist in NA to learn to play primalist. Funny stuff matey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simple Things View Post
    Apart from that, vulcanist played in tightest roration actually hits decently hard in pvp, especially when both dots tick the moment skill shot lands and fury blast hits followed by stroke of brilliance, basic 15 second low burst but it does a good amount of damage.
    You cannot control when skill shot lands on the target, so you cannot predict landing it at the same time as FB/Conflag. Oh yes I know about combining Travel Time with cast time with instants non travel time and outside of EB this is the only way to get surprise kills. It's damage is still severely mediocre compared to all other ranged specs by a long shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simple Things View Post
    Fury blast beeing constantly up and 3 strokes of brilliance (hits about 1k less than skillshot so 10-12 vs 11-13k) 3 times in 15 seconds.
    In perfect harmony, which should never happen 3 times in 15 seconds in PVP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simple Things View Post
    the amount of dot ticks and 1s gcd hits + procs and weaponswings and the pretty decent set of bursts
    Oh that ice zerker proc we have? Yeaaah. So now you're going on about dots and 1s gcd hits as if no one else has this - But way better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simple Things View Post
    (3 a minute: avatar beacon, eb, eb and if rly needed just 2 windows: avatar beacon eb and eb) amount to a decent amount of killing blows.
    Just so you know, EB isn't buffed by avatar, also beacon procs your avatar ED stacks which make it useless aoe padding. So just by reading this, you're playing vulcanist way wrong in pvp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simple Things View Post
    Been toplining kbs and damage in more warfronts than beeing behind in vulc and it's easy, stick to the rotation, stroke of brilliance and fury blast deliver the damage, if oyu just spam vorpal like a turd you will never get anyone down.
    Yes mate, being top damage in vulcanist is the easiest thing on the planet as it has the highest ranged cleave in the game. Happens every single game. Yes mate, it's not hard to be top KB's either when everyone else is terrible at the game and Ethereal beam is usually a guaranteed one shot.

    You are missing the entire point of any post I've made about primalist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simple Things View Post
    Totally opposite for dervish, vulc isn't so bad in terms of predefined rotation and lack of flexibility, it's only 15 second blocks you need to pull off, combined in any order you wish.
    Vulcanist has no set rotation, never has and never will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simple Things View Post
    Dervish on the other hand, go look for my man grughaar, his dumbed down dervish rotation gives you an insight on how to dervish in pvp.
    Yeahhhh not even gonna take you seriously anymore. Grughar's guide is rubbish and is played entirely incorrectly. Only 2 people in NA know how to play Dervish properly and I'm one of them, every guide on the forum is rubbish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simple Things View Post
    It's aircutters and whirling/earthfall.
    hitting 10k+ aircutters every other second + 2 dots and big channels makes it quite the controllable killing machine in pvp.
    So just by reading this I can clearly see that you have no idea how dervish works. In order to achieve said damage, 1) You need to have full fury cyclisism, 2) You need to already have been in the fight long enough for 6 consecutive crits within a 15s time span, 3) The fight cannot break for more then ~10s at any point in time if you wish to retain massive crucial buffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simple Things View Post
    It's not hard to play, it hits pretty damn hard, the stun is really **** for beeing uncontrollable, not because of a rotation (pve rota dervish in pvp is bad).
    So again, like i've pointed out I don't know how many times. The ONLY reason dervish is even viable in PVE is due to it's strict rotation, if at any point there is any reason to break said rotation or stop, vulcanist is better DPS wise. The exact same thing applies to PVP. Without a steady flow of damage all the time and no disconnects will dervish outperform vulcanist. On top of this the amount of cc out there in the game *Cough pyro and mm* with the lack of break free's required for dervish just makes it not even viable for pvp, as vulcanist is 10 times better, even if you run into melee and play it as a melee spec.

    So before ranting about primalist as if you know how to play it, please do yourself a favor and sit down and learn about the class, then go out and experience in PVE and PVP.

  15. #45
    Rift Chaser Fopod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgad View Post
    the top primalist in NA
    You are so humble.
    Not that I would expect any less from you that is.

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