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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Competitive PVP; New Ideas!

  1. #1
    Telaran iElicit's Avatar
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    Default Competitive PVP; New Ideas!

    Hello everyone! As we all are aware of, pvp is at its worst right now. The competitive aspect of it has died down greatly. Many miss the 'old' days in which mostly everyone were pvping, wether it was open world or just warfront fun, it brought an unforgettable taste to the game. The taste has increasingly gone down to the point of corruption; population decreases; people wanting more. Many of us pvpers voice our ideas and thoughts, and we sit and hope for something to change. I have brainstormed many changes, shared them with many people, and I thought that right now would be perfect to put out these ideas out, into the public.

    What other better way to bring the competitive pvp aspect back into the game, than to input a division/league in which lets teams, or guilds, battle against each other in a series of game modes.

    Guild/Team Rosters: Well first, guildmasters would register their guilds into the pvp league. Then, they would set their team for pvp. This team should be compiled of up to 50 players maximum on a roster. The players on the roster must be in the guild. The roster should have team captain(s). This does not necessarily mean that the guildmasters would have to take on the position to lead the roster in pvp. The guildmasters would appoint 1-2 captains per team (anyone who they think is worthy enough to take on the position) (yes, this does include themselves). The guild should also have 1-7 alternate captains to help run the team, and initiate games. Only the captains can kick players off the roster, accept players in, and promote/demote player positions in the roster. If the team has 10+ players set on the roster, then the guild is eligible to participate in games in the league.

    Guild vs Guild action: There should be different game modes, with different objectives, with different player caps in each warfront. (Ex: 7v7 Black Garden CTF) In order for teams to initiate battles against each other, a team captain/alternate captain of one team should challenge another team. (Ex: /challenge (opponent team) : (what warfront))
    This challenge would be sent out to the opponent team. Only captains/alternate captains can accept opponent challenges. Once the challenge is accepted, there should be a tab in the warfront page to enter the arena. The captains/alternate captains should add players that are going to be playing in the match. In order to successfully start a match, each team must have the appropriate amount of players in before a game starts. If a team does not have the appropriate amount of players in before a game starts, the game will be avoided.(Each team would have 5 minutes to submit their lineup) After the 5 minutes are up, submission ends, and the match starts.

    There also should be a spectator mode in which people can watch the games and spectate on different players. There is no public chat; only team chats and spectator chat. (This is to not disrupt the match)

    Statistics, rosters, etc: This, imo, should all have a website dedicated to view recent games between teams, team rosters, and division ladders. Statistics/leaderboards (for each team/player) should also be viewed on the website, but maybe can also be implemented in the leaderboards tab in the RIFT game.

    Playoffs: The regular season would be teams battling to get atop the leaderboards in pvp. The top teams would get into the playoffs to fight against each other (best of 3 games). These games should be scheduled on the weekends (Or Mondays if the matches are 1/1 in score) at different times, in which both teams are suited to fight against each other with. Teams that lose the best of 3 get eliminated, teams that win move on. The champion team should get a title on the website (or in the game) with their team name and players who participated in the playoffs. This should be a champs list that tells people that they are, or were former champions, in addition to in-game rewards of choice by TRION. The players on the roster should also have a trophy next to their name (or on their profile) on the website, to acknowledge that they are/were champions.

    Phew! Lots of brainstorming! Again, these are only ideas guys. I think that this will run smoothly, and that it can definitely bring back that pvp competitiveness that everyone wants. Hopefully TRION will see this, and start getting inspired into working on pvp, and get more involved with it. After All, this is only an outline. Please tell me what you guys think of this idea, and share your ideas as well! Thank you!
    - Elicit@Deepwood
    Last edited by iElicit; 01-18-2016 at 07:18 AM.

  2. #2
    Rift Team Ocho's Avatar
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    I like the idea personally, but am curious about how many folks are interested in this. One good proof of concept would be someone running a guild v guild contest in PvP dimensions to demonstrate interest. With strong support, it would certainly be a more interesting idea to pitch to the team.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Competitive PVP; New Ideas!

    Pretty impossible to make anything truly competitive and down to skill and gameplay when it is possible for anybody to enter the Rift store duel wielding Mastercard and Visa and just buy practically all the top gear and even all the upgrade consumables. just sayin :P

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    Ascendant Nuuli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elvenmad View Post
    Competitive PVP; New Ideas!

    Pretty impossible to make anything truly competitive and down to skill and gameplay when it is possible for anybody to enter the Rift store duel wielding Mastercard and Visa and just buy practically all the top gear and even all the upgrade consumables. just sayin :P
    Anybody willing to spend lots of $$$.$$. But how many are really going to do that?

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuuli View Post
    Anybody willing to spend lots of $$$.$$. But how many are really going to do that?
    you would be surprised. I know of players of other free to play games who have invested over 10,000 dollars on what are just pixlels on a screen, I personally know someone IRL who had over 5k invested in Archeage within the first 3 weeks of live.
    Cost means nothing to some people if they can afk in a town equipped with 'top' gear.

    When a game as the option to buy gear or equipment NOTHING can ever be truly competitive.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    1. Take 90's template and framework rule-set from competitive FPS ladders
    2. Tweak and adjust the concepts to work for an MMO game
    3. Hit f1 because you are ready
    4. PvP ladders!
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  7. #7
    Ascendant ecru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    1. Take 90's template and framework rule-set from competitive FPS ladders
    2. Tweak and adjust the concepts to work for an MMO game
    3. Hit f1 because you are ready
    4. PvP ladders!
    agreed.

    step one, replicate q3dm6 and qwdm3/dm2 inside of rift. step two, put powerups on it somewhere. red armor? yes. quad damage? **** yes. step 3, implement a clan arena ruleset for pugs and tdm rulset for a different queue with two captains, a roll for first pick, and alternating picks for teams after that. step 5....... ?????/ that's it, i literally just fixed rift pvp
    starplatinum@greybriar
    bluebarbie@greybriar
    twitch
    youtubes

  8. #8
    Plane Walker Sekirach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    I like the idea personally, but am curious about how many folks are interested in this. One good proof of concept would be someone running a guild v guild contest in PvP dimensions to demonstrate interest. With strong support, it would certainly be a more interesting idea to pitch to the team.
    problem might be that gear is gear . and PvP is PTW. (pay to win, not plane touched wilds)

    before 3.0 was invented we did have guild VS guild encounters . (chronic insanity VS hear us roar - was stupidly fun)
    Last edited by Sekirach; 01-18-2016 at 05:24 PM. Reason: cause ill eat a banana from forums again

  9. #9
    Ascendant SprawlnBrawl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iElicit View Post
    Hello everyone! As we all are aware of, pvp is at its worst right now. The competitive aspect of it has died down greatly. Many miss the 'old' days in which mostly everyone were pvping, wether it was open world or just warfront fun, it brought an unforgettable taste to the game. The taste has increasingly gone down to the point of corruption; population decreases; people wanting more. Many of us pvpers voice our ideas and thoughts, and we sit and hope for something to change. I have brainstormed many changes, shared them with many people, and I thought that right now would be perfect to put out these ideas out, into the public.

    What other better way to bring the competitive pvp aspect back into the game, than to input a division/league in which lets teams, or guilds, battle against each other in a series of game modes.

    Guild/Team Rosters: Well first, guildmasters would register their guilds into the pvp league. Then, they would set their team for pvp. This team should be compiled of up to 50 players maximum on a roster. The players on the roster must be in the guild. The roster should have team captain(s). This does not necessarily mean that the guildmasters would have to take on the position to lead the roster in pvp. The guildmasters would appoint 1-2 captains per team (anyone who they think is worthy enough to take on the position) (yes, this does include themselves). The guild should also have 1-7 alternate captains to help run the team, and initiate games. Only the captains can kick players off the roster, accept players in, and promote/demote player positions in the roster. If the team has 10+ players set on the roster, then the guild is eligible to participate in games in the league.

    Guild vs Guild action: There should be different game modes, with different objectives, with different player caps in each warfront. (Ex: 7v7 Black Garden CTF) In order for teams to initiate battles against each other, a team captain/alternate captain of one team should challenge another team. (Ex: /challenge (opponent team) : (what warfront))
    This challenge would be sent out to the opponent team. Only captains/alternate captains can accept opponent challenges. Once the challenge is accepted, there should be a tab in the warfront page to enter the arena. The captains/alternate captains should add players that are going to be playing in the match. In order to successfully start a match, each team must have the appropriate amount of players in before a game starts. If a team does not have the appropriate amount of players in before a game starts, the game will be avoided.(Each team would have 5 minutes to submit their lineup) After the 5 minutes are up, submission ends, and the match starts.

    There also should be a spectator mode in which people can watch the games and spectate on different players. There is no public chat; only team chats and spectator chat. (This is to not disrupt the match)

    Statistics, rosters, etc: This, imo, should all have a website dedicated to view recent games between teams, team rosters, and division ladders. Statistics/leaderboards (for each team/player) should also be viewed on the website, but maybe can also be implemented in the leaderboards tab in the RIFT game.

    Playoffs: The regular season would be teams battling to get atop the leaderboards in pvp. The top teams would get into the playoffs to fight against each other (best of 3 games). These games should be scheduled on the weekends (Or Mondays if the matches are 1/1 in score) at different times, in which both teams are suited to fight against each other with. Teams that lose the best of 3 get eliminated, teams that win move on. The champion team should get a title on the website (or in the game) with their team name and players who participated in the playoffs. This should be a champs list that tells people that they are, or were former champions, in addition to in-game rewards of choice by TRION. The players on the roster should also have a trophy next to their name (or on their profile) on the website, to acknowledge that they are/were champions.

    Phew! Lots of brainstorming! Again, these are only ideas guys. I think that this will run smoothly, and that it can definitely bring back that pvp competitiveness that everyone wants. Hopefully TRION will see this, and start getting inspired into working on pvp, and get more involved with it. After All, this is only an outline. Please tell me what you guys think of this idea, and share your ideas as well! Thank you!
    - Elicit@Deepwood
    who will be buying everyone their gear so they are equal? competitive pvp talk is a waste of time without gear normalization or top end pvp gear that is actually obtainable prior to the next tier being released, currently neither are anywhere close to being a reality
    Last edited by SprawlnBrawl; 01-18-2016 at 05:22 PM.

  10. #10
    Champion Fallse's Avatar
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    I would get a 5 man together if gear is 100% normalized as in every piece replaced so that every player of each class type has the same AP/CP/HP etc etc

    To quote from another thread ..... and to quote Kronos w/whom I often disagree

    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    I'm not against you enjoying raids.
    I'm not against you enjoying pvp.
    I'm not against you having a fancy pair of pants from raiding.
    I am against imbalance in pvp.
    Your fancy raiding pants are unbalancing pvp.

  11. #11
    Telaran iElicit's Avatar
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    Haha, forgot gear.
    Just before I state another Idea, I just want to point out that I am undergeared but pretty much always perform well in warfronts (not trying to be cocky in anyway, just trying to point something out)
    Gear isnt the biggest thing in pvp..though it plays a part. Mind you hit in pvp does not affect your dps (hit is pve based)

    Only for the league, trion can make all players wear a set of gear..equal to everyone else so that the match is pure rotation, skill, and teamwork. Not hard to do, I wouldnt think.
    OR
    Just place a debuff on your gear when u are in the league that equalizes everyone gear.
    (Ex: intelligence 3567 now put to 2000)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SprawlnBrawl View Post
    who will be buying everyone their gear so they are equal? competitive pvp talk is a waste of time without gear normalization or top end pvp gear that is actually obtainable prior to the next tier being released, currently neither are anywhere close to being a reality
    There wouldn't be any need to normalize the gear if the PVP gear was the best gear for PVP.
    Then if someone had an edge in the guild pvp thing because of his gear, it'd just mean he PVP'ed more than the rest of them, thus he deserved it.

    But now, if someone has a gear edge over other PVP'ers it just means he's done PVE stuff.

    I would love this update (I'm not in a guild right now, but that kind of stuff might get me to try to join one ), but the pve crap kinda ruins it.

    And yeah, I know, gear isn't all.. But it's something. When you're talking about the best players, the "skill" edge isn't very large. You take two great players who are very close skill wise, and you give one of them the PVE gear edge, and that one's gonna win. This ruins the whole "pvp competition" thing a bit.

    The hardcore ones who wants to give a serious shot at the highest PVP ranks in the competition would devote a huge % of their time... doing PVE.
    Because that's the only way it's gonna be possible.

    Unless they have a SERIOUS skill edge over EVERYONE else on the competition, they need the PVE gear to fight the other guilds who have it.

    (Did I mention/imply enough that making the PVE gear best in PVP was a stupid idea for a million reasons?)
    Anyway.

    I like this suggestion. Hope it works!

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Ballzyboy's Avatar
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    i'm up to every ideas able to improve pvp from his current state.
    Last edited by Ballzyboy; 01-19-2016 at 01:45 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    I like the idea personally, but am curious about how many folks are interested in this. One good proof of concept would be someone running a guild v guild contest in PvP dimensions to demonstrate interest. With strong support, it would certainly be a more interesting idea to pitch to the team.
    In regards to your response Ocho which I find odd and overdue.

    All this time later PvP Dimensions are still too glitchy for all classes to use the skills given them and without bolstering or leadership boards a bit pointless.

    Lost opportunity. So many people spent a lot of time trying to make PvP in dimensions work when there was plenty of support when these began and Pithos was still on the team. That should have been indicator enough to put bolstering and leadership boards in so events like this would still be continued instead of relying on the community to make something work this far forward that just doesn't for an idea that's good but not new.

    The curious stage is long gone.
    Last edited by Kiwi; 01-19-2016 at 05:37 AM.

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by somerandomnamee View Post
    There wouldn't be any need to normalize the gear if the PVP gear was the best gear for PVP.
    Then if someone had an edge in the guild pvp thing because of his gear, it'd just mean he PVP'ed more than the rest of them, thus he deserved it.

    But now, if someone has a gear edge over other PVP'ers it just means he's done PVE stuff.
    Exactly. We recently got a new set of gear for PVP (warmonger) and everyone thought 'great' this should balance PVP out better gear wise and take away the gear differences BUT then at the same time Trion change the bolster lvls of PVE raid gear and just completely ruin it GG.
    I know there as been many threads already and even Dev replies concerning this and I know the 'balance' will have been worked out with maths and theory crafting etc etc but in practicality its way off balance.
    I have a set of upgraded Warmonger weapons on one of my characters, but in Warfronts I still opt too use my T2 ones, I'M sorry but they hit soooo much harder.

    The only way to have a half decent balanced PVP tournament or even PVP ranking system in this game is to have it PVP gear ONLY so it is all about skill and gameplay. But that will never happen, it would just open another 'can of worms', we would have people saying 'how come we can buy PVE gear for cash, but not PVP' for a start amongst all the other things that are available for cash.

    Its probably my only real gripe with this game the fact you can buy practically all the top gear for cash AND all the materials to upgrade it. I am a great beleiver in TOP gear should be earned NOT bought.
    Last edited by elvenmad; 01-19-2016 at 06:05 AM.

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