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Thread: Current trend in the pvp community

  1. #1
    Plane Walker dayzed's Avatar
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    Default Current trend in the pvp community

    I've been reading the forms a lot more the past couple months and I've come to notice a major trend with the pvp community lately. I do a lot of both pvp & pve so i feel i have a pretty good understanding of the current state of pvp in rift.

    From reading the forms it pretty much seems like the majority of the "pvp community" is bunch of whiny babies.Basically wanting pvp gear to be super easy to get, super easy to uprade, super easy to fully gear multiple toons and wants it to be equal to T3 raid quality. As if they are treating rift like a first person shooter, or something along those lines. Where you can casually log in, put in very little effort, have max weapons, armor, stats, etc and also would like to be able to does this on multiple toons. I don't know about you, but thats dam sure not the type of game i want rift to turn into.

    This didn't use to be the case at all. Back in vanilla, SL, etc. Pvpers were very hardcore! They spent a long time grinding out "the best armor & weapons" and they were badass! I keep trying to figure out whats changed over time to cause this but the only thing i can think of is its a new group of players? I know trion has changed a lot over the years in pvp and maybe thats the cause of a lot of it. Maybe this is the different type of crowed the "free to play" model attracts vs the subscription player base? Im not sure.

    Never the less, This new trend of wanting everything to be super easy to obtain isn't good for rift or the life of the game. And with how much crying there is about these things i wouldn't doubt it if trion ends up giving in to the masses. But what do you think happens when you have all 4-5 of your chars fully geared out, BiS everything within 2-3 months? You will having nothing to work towards, you will start logging in less and less because you don't have anything to work for, so will others, thus resulting in the population getting lower and lower, people stop playing, etc.

    I understand that some things are a little to "grindy" or need to be adjusted and i hope we can get trion to address these issues. In my opinion, and im pretty sure ive heard trion say in the past they try and make it like this is, if you start your "gear grind" at the beginning of a tier, you should be maxed out on that tier just before the second tier is released with an avg amount of game play. If u play more then avg. you will reach the end of the tier quicker then the rest. I agree they need to work on some things but i really feel there is WAY TO MUCH crying and complaining about wanting to have "BiS armor/weapons" with very little work.

    If i were a new player wanting to check out rift, i would come to the forms to try and get a better look into the game, that being said. Anyone who comes to our forms is going to turn and run after reading most of our posts.

    Well sorry to rant, i just feel like this is getting out of hand. We need to be more constructive with our posts and telling trion devs what we want, what will make the game play better, etc.

    Thanks for reading.

  2. #2
    Champion of Telara Ongar's Avatar
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    Beeing a Hardcore PvPer has nothing to do with beeing willing to grind or not. You can grind all day long and still be bad at PvP. Hardcore means that you are good at the activity itself and nothing else.

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    Ascendant Artewig's Avatar
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    Gotta disagree with you here. The majority of pvpers (what's left of them) complain about the current state of almost everything pvp-related. People who only pvp aren't complaining about gear being too easy to get, but rather the fact the fastest way to gear involves pvp and pve.

    Personally raiding is my top priority, hands down. I absolutely love pvp but I don't want to be grinding pvp just for my marks. I'd rather pvp only when I want to pvp and not be penalized for it. I'm sure every pvper would be glad to have only people who actually want to be there. The pvpers that are complaining are complaining simply because they want to improve the game.

    I think you're looking at the wrong players when making this judgement. Yeah, sure, some of there complaining is whining, but look at raiders. We honestly whine about stuff all the time. Pvpers want it to be equal to T3 which (in all honesty) it should be. It would make bolstering less confusing (or rather decrease the room for error), and it would give pvpers a bit more gear progression if they were to receive a new tier at the same time as raiders.

    All of the complaining is due to players trying to play in a completely biased and unfair game. Pvp is incredibly neglected and gear unification has caused quite a bit of difficulty and frustration.

    Overall, I think there are more "raiders" that want things handed to them than there are pvpers in the entire game. I think your in-game and on the forums experiences have led you to misunderstand who the real pvpers are and what they are trying to accomplish. As for your last paragraph, that's a different issue entirely and more or less due to how Trion handles responses. Threads usually start out incredibly constructive but devolve when Trion gives poor or non-existent communication. Sure, players could do a little less bickering, but Trion could improve in communicating in a more timely manner and also avoid debating with players.
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  4. #4
    Plane Walker Kartia's Avatar
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    Man are you real? Have you ever do the math about new weapon set grind and upgrade grind? New players gated for months without upgrade if they want the weapon bonus set.
    It takes as much time as raiding!!! We speak about 3-4 hours daily pvp for WM capping.
    To get 36 WM at least takes 6 weeks, 100 warfronts each week. Average warfront takes 15 minutes. So at least 25 hours weekly without favor vial. Average person works 40 hours a week! Others already did the math read before comment! Plus add time to grind for money to get orbs, runes, dungeons, notoriety grind, maybe crafting, IA.
    And we don't want equal to T3 we want pvp gear to be BIS for pvp.
    Last edited by Kartia; 01-05-2016 at 03:29 AM.

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    Plane Walker Hectyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayzed View Post
    From reading the forms it pretty much seems like the majority of the "pvp community" is bunch of whiny babies.
    I can certainly understand this being your perspective- and its unfortunate- but there are a few things to consider.

    Those who are content with the current state of pvp don't come to forums- they're busy having fun in the game.

    As of 3.0, there has been a tremendous shift in the "culture" of Rift pvp. Pre-3.0, a player could pursue his interest of pvp activities & essential gear by dedicating the vast majority of their playtime by pvping. There were a few activities that assisted in this task (open world dailies for stones to secure synergy crystals, etc) but for the most part pvp provided much of what every player needed to develop a pvp-focused progression.

    This is no longer the case. Sure, the gear disparity may be slightly closer now, but- same as a raider- a pvp enthusiast wants the best gear they can get so that gear itself can't be used as an excuse for poor performance. If a pvp'er wants to continue this course, many other activities outside their realm of interest are required- or encouraged at the very least.

    Sure, many players have held an interest in both raiding and pvp prior to 3.0, and as such devoted their time towards either in a ratio that corresponded to their interests.

    Some suggest the "gear unification" concept encourages players to try a greater variety of activities. Yet, if a player was bored with a particular aspect of the game, it was highly likely their choice to experience other activities regardless.

    The important word is "choice".

    Some suggest "well, I like both pvp & pve, and now I only need one gearset to engage in either activity."

    If this was the predominant factor (as a QoL aspect), then why doesn't gear conform to the current role of a character? With every calling having access to every type of role, its very likely that characters have multiple gear sets anyway, to support a dps and/or tanking situation.

    Now consider Trion removed pvp Rifts and pvp dailies- and by offering pve rewards in pvp activities it lures players into activities that they lack interest in which results in uninspired & unmotivated players on the field of pvp. Not only do those who abhor pvp end up dissatisfied, but those who DO want to pvp aren't happy either with the lack of competition and/or coordination expected from a pvp community.


    All in all, you're right- its silly that some of the behavior promoted by some posts in pvp forums is childish to say the least.

    But when your parents take away your toys, then force you to play with other kids that don't want to play the same game- childish behavior is bound to occur at some point.

    TL/DR: People whine and complain when they aren't happy- either to vent or voice their frustration in an attempt to change the situation. The longer the cries are ignored, the louder they get.
    Last edited by Hectyr; 01-05-2016 at 05:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dayzed View Post
    I do a lot of both pvp & pve so i feel i have a pretty good understanding of the current state of pvp in rift.

    From reading the forms it pretty much seems like the majority of the "pvp community" is bunch of whiny babies.Basically wanting pvp gear to be super easy to get, super easy to uprade, super easy to fully gear multiple toons
    The primalist best weapon earned in PVP cost 2,400,000 favors to buy and 390,000 to upgrade.

    at 3000 favors on average per warfronts that's 800 warfronts to buy and another 130 to upgrade it.

    930 warfronts to get ONE pvp "bis" item, of which you'll lose about 465 of them.
    And you can't upgrade a SINGLE PIECE OF GEAR until you get to that point, or you just push back your weapon even more.


    So, you do pvp and pve both? Ok.
    When they release a patch that makes you have to farm almost a thousand dungeons without getting even +1 attack power on your character, please come bump this thread and talk about how this is perfectly fine and anyone complaining about that system is just a whiny baby.
    Last edited by somerandomnamee; 01-05-2016 at 05:49 AM.

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    Plane Walker dayzed's Avatar
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    I'm at work right now so I don't have enough time engage in this conversation fully but for the above poster and others saying you have to do 800 warfronts just get one weapon without getting any gear upgrades is a complete lie. You get 50 T3 marks per warfront win so let's say you only win 400 if your bad, that's 20k T3 marks which you can buy 2-3 pieces of raid gear within that time. And that's just warfront wins. That's not including the weeklies.

    Yes, the weapons are over priced, I never said they weren't and I never said that they didn't need to do some adjusting. I will respond further once I'm off work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dayzed View Post
    I'm at work right now so I don't have enough time engage in this conversation fully but for the above poster and others saying you have to do 800 warfronts just get one weapon without getting any gear upgrades is a complete lie. You get 50 T3 marks per warfront win so let's say you only win 400 if your bad, that's 20k T3 marks which you can buy 2-3 pieces of raid gear within that time. And that's just warfront wins. That's not including the weeklies.

    Yes, the weapons are over priced, I never said they weren't and I never said that they didn't need to do some adjusting. I will respond further once I'm off work.
    The T3 marks, you mean, the things you win with your daily warfront charges?
    I.E. if you want to win 400 x of them, you need 400 daily charges, which means 1 year and a month?
    (You see where I'm going with that?).

    I didn't look much into the raid gear stuff, but assuming your information is correct, that's 4 months per piece of raid gear.

    It's something, but I don't see how it's an improvement over my point, i.e. you can play for months without getting a single upgraded item if you go for the weapon.
    (and if you don't go for the weapon you're just gimping yourself really).

    My example was about playing 10 warfronts a day, but if you play that much you only earn favors after your 1 daily charge.


    I also think the weapons are overpriced, but that's not even the main problem in my opinion;
    The problem is that going for the weapon stall every other progression. You can't upgrade your chest piece and go for the weapon at the same time.
    Save for the weapon? Keep all your gear at dreambreaker level ( which is terrible compared to the BIS ).
    Upgrade all your gear? Now your weapon will take you like 6-8 months to get instead of 2.

    The weapon is obviously your best piece of gear to get, so optimally, you don't upgrade anything for like 2 months. This doesn't feel like progression at all.

    As expensive as the weapon is, it would've been a much easier pill to swallow if it was a whole different currency, so you could save for the weapon AND upgrade the rest of your gear at the same time. It'd still be 2 months, but your character would still improve during those 2 months.

  9. #9
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
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    The current system of gear unification is awful and I hate it. This is coming from someone who has always completed current tier of raiding and had BIS gear so right now I benefit the most in PVP, so that should say a lot.

    I miss the old system that relied on just pvping to get your pvp gear. I think they can still do "pvp" gear right now and not have to worry about the old valor/vengeance ********. Keep the Marauder's Caches but reintroduce pvp gear. They just did it for weapons, so clearly they can do it for mark gear.

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    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Stopped reading at whiny babies. Already realized I was about to agree with everything most likely.
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  11. #11
    Ascendant Bliter's Avatar
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    The current trend in Rift pvp is to have pve players dictate what pvp is to pvpers.
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    Champion of Telara McChaffe's Avatar
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    I'm already logging in less and less because the grind is ****ing ridiculous.

    As stated in this thread, do the math. The complaints on gearing from PvP are warranted because the grind is very bad.
    Last edited by McChaffe; 01-05-2016 at 06:06 PM.
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    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McChaffe View Post
    I'm already logging in less and less because the grind is ****ing ridiculous.

    As stated in this thread, do the math. The complaints on gearing from PvP are warranted because the grind is very bad.
    The grind is actually about equivalent to the R6/R8 grinds back in Vanilla, which also happens to be the last time favor purchased weapons were PvE relevant on progression content.

    Favor gain:cost ratios are a bit higher now, but Patron/Vials/DOPE didn't exist back then so technically you could buy Warmonger's weapons more quickly now than you could buy R8 weapons back then. The biggest limiting factor is the weekly cap on Warmonger's marks. You were also required to spend your favor on armor back then as well. That's also not taking into consideration CQ which is a decent source of favor and another thing that didn't exist in vanilla.
    Last edited by Stihl; 01-05-2016 at 06:36 PM.
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  14. #14
    Champion of Telara McChaffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stihl View Post
    The grind is actually about equivalent to the R6/R8 grinds back in Vanilla, which also happens to be the last time favor purchased weapons were PvE relevant on progression content.

    Favor gain:cost ratios are a bit higher now, but Patron/Vials/DOPE didn't exist back then so technically you could buy Warmonger's weapons more quickly now than you could buy R8 weapons back then. The biggest limiting factor is the weekly cap on Warmonger's marks. You were also required to spend your favor on armor back then as well. That's also not taking into consideration CQ which is a decent source of favor and another thing that didn't exist in vanilla.
    You also have to deal with RNG for the correct gear. I've still yet to ever see specific gear drops that I could use.
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  15. #15
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McChaffe View Post
    You also have to deal with RNG for the correct gear. I've still yet to ever see specific gear drops that I could use.
    Fill in those slots with T2/T3 marks? You do get them from PvPing.

    I mean I am just a filthy pve'r apparently, but If I can manage ~18m lifetime favor and


    Current trend in the pvp community-pvp-sets.jpg

    a main stat heavy piece of gear for every tertiary stat in every slot, the true PvP folk can collect at least 1 set, right?
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