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Thread: Current trend in the pvp community

  1. #16
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stihl View Post
    The grind is actually about equivalent to the R6/R8 grinds back in Vanilla, which also happens to be the last time favor purchased weapons were PvE relevant on progression content.

    Favor gain:cost ratios are a bit higher now, but Patron/Vials/DOPE didn't exist back then so technically you could buy Warmonger's weapons more quickly now than you could buy R8 weapons back then. The biggest limiting factor is the weekly cap on Warmonger's marks. You were also required to spend your favor on armor back then as well. That's also not taking into consideration CQ which is a decent source of favor and another thing that didn't exist in vanilla.
    It wasn't as bad back then because you didn't need favor for marks and favor for an upgrade component. I found an old screenshot for r8 weapons in an old forum post. You just had to buy the starting weapon with favor and then use that weapon + favor for the next tier. http://oi54.tinypic.com/213m6ht.jpg

    Ianno, I found it easier to get gear pre-SL PVP than I did for SL PVP. -shrug-

  2. #17
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riane View Post
    It wasn't as bad back then because you didn't need favor for marks and favor for an upgrade component. I found an old screenshot for r8 weapons in an old forum post. You just had to buy the starting weapon with favor and then use that weapon + favor for the next tier. http://oi54.tinypic.com/213m6ht.jpg

    Ianno, I found it easier to get gear pre-SL PVP than I did for SL PVP. -shrug-
    I thought it was more difficult in SL as well, I am just arguing the point that the current favor grind is actually pretty decently in line with other eras in Rift's history and isn't some ridiculous slog that has never occurred before. Especially when you take into consideration the existence of boosts that haven't always been around.
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    Rift Chaser Osirian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayzed View Post
    I've been reading the forms a lot more the past couple months and I've come to notice a major trend with the pvp community lately. I do a lot of both pvp & pve so i feel i have a pretty good understanding of the current state of pvp in rift.

    From reading the forms it pretty much seems like the majority of the "pvp community" is bunch of whiny babies.Basically wanting pvp gear to be super easy to get, super easy to uprade, super easy to fully gear multiple toons and wants it to be equal to T3 raid quality. As if they are treating rift like a first person shooter, or something along those lines. Where you can casually log in, put in very little effort, have max weapons, armor, stats, etc and also would like to be able to does this on multiple toons. I don't know about you, but thats dam sure not the type of game i want rift to turn into.

    This didn't use to be the case at all. Back in vanilla, SL, etc. Pvpers were very hardcore! They spent a long time grinding out "the best armor & weapons" and they were badass! I keep trying to figure out whats changed over time to cause this but the only thing i can think of is its a new group of players? I know trion has changed a lot over the years in pvp and maybe thats the cause of a lot of it. Maybe this is the different type of crowed the "free to play" model attracts vs the subscription player base? Im not sure.

    Never the less, This new trend of wanting everything to be super easy to obtain isn't good for rift or the life of the game. And with how much crying there is about these things i wouldn't doubt it if trion ends up giving in to the masses. But what do you think happens when you have all 4-5 of your chars fully geared out, BiS everything within 2-3 months? You will having nothing to work towards, you will start logging in less and less because you don't have anything to work for, so will others, thus resulting in the population getting lower and lower, people stop playing, etc.

    I understand that some things are a little to "grindy" or need to be adjusted and i hope we can get trion to address these issues. In my opinion, and im pretty sure ive heard trion say in the past they try and make it like this is, if you start your "gear grind" at the beginning of a tier, you should be maxed out on that tier just before the second tier is released with an avg amount of game play. If u play more then avg. you will reach the end of the tier quicker then the rest. I agree they need to work on some things but i really feel there is WAY TO MUCH crying and complaining about wanting to have "BiS armor/weapons" with very little work.

    If i were a new player wanting to check out rift, i would come to the forms to try and get a better look into the game, that being said. Anyone who comes to our forms is going to turn and run after reading most of our posts.

    Well sorry to rant, i just feel like this is getting out of hand. We need to be more constructive with our posts and telling trion devs what we want, what will make the game play better, etc.

    Thanks for reading.
    EASY FIX TO THIS...give everyone equal gear when they que. Then the real skill will be seen. I wouldn't mind a bit.

  4. #19
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osirian View Post
    EASY FIX TO THIS...give everyone equal gear when they que. Then the real skill will be seen. I wouldn't mind a bit.
    This was one of my favorite aspects of GW2. Upon entering the mists and entering instanced PvP, everyone had access to the same pool of equipment. Armor, accessories, runes, you could tailor your equipment however you desired but the closest thing to a gear advantage anyone had was understanding which stats to go for in regards to their spec/strategy.
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  5. #20
    Champion of Telara McChaffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stihl View Post
    Fill in those slots with T2/T3 marks? You do get them from PvPing.

    I mean I am just a filthy pve'r apparently, but If I can manage ~18m lifetime favor and


    a main stat heavy piece of gear for every tertiary stat in every slot, the true PvP folk can collect at least 1 set, right?
    You can do this, but since most of my mark income happens to be on my main, I have very little use of doing all of these weeklies across various alts since my main's already beyond the PvP gear that's now available.

    For alts, the system is utterly screwed. Doing it more than once takes an ungodly amount of time.

    (My perspective on this is skewed to alts since my main gearing so far in this expansion has caused me to out-gear the increase in PvP tiers. Also, we're arguing about gear that's a tier behind.)
    Last edited by McChaffe; 01-05-2016 at 08:20 PM.
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  6. #21
    Shield of Telara Talzoor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stihl View Post
    a main stat heavy piece of gear for every tertiary stat in every slot, the true PvP folk can collect at least 1 set, right?
    I have been playing my rogue constantly in pvp since 3.0 (sans a 3 month break). That means it's been over a year and I have yet to receive a bis cape. Also, just last week I got my non end heavy neck.

    The RNG is real. Just because things work out well for you, doesn't mean it holds the same for everyone else.
    Last edited by Talzoor; 01-05-2016 at 09:40 PM.

  7. #22
    Plane Touched Meliannia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    Stopped reading at whiny babies. Already realized I was about to agree with everything most likely.
    Stopped reading at whiny babies. Already realised I was about to read a post forom a short term memory attention seeking troll.

    The PvP community (or what's left of it after the appalling kiddy 3.0 joke expansion which betrayed all of the PvP ppl) has the one eternal justified gripe at Trion (not a whine, a justified complaint). Lest ye forget, when 3.0 came out Trion wiped out ENTIRELY the entire set and progression of PvP gear, Gear which ppl had put 3 to 4 hrs per day a Year+ of their lives into grinding and having fun doing it so and even Gosh SHOCK open world PvP quests!, Having your relic mymidion set erased from history caused a mass exodus of PvP ppl from the game , and subsequent bumming of the PvE goblin killercommunity, then the subsequent lack of action for 3 MONTHS form trion about this issue, then the subsequent botched attempts at putting appallingly badly geared supply caches into warfront for two further months, before they sorted it out with the gear u get now form random cache wins.

    This is no whine, just the fall out from 3.0. Which will forever be. And The Mel means Forever BE, the utter betrayal of the PvP community as a whole, and a nail into the coffin of half-decent PvP in Rift..

    Chew on that, pal.

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  8. #23
    Champion of Telara Ongar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stihl View Post
    This was one of my favorite aspects of GW2. Upon entering the mists and entering instanced PvP, everyone had access to the same pool of equipment. Armor, accessories, runes, you could tailor your equipment however you desired but the closest thing to a gear advantage anyone had was understanding which stats to go for in regards to their spec/strategy.
    GW 1/2 sees PvP as an eSports, not as a gear grind like most other MMOs.

    I think in Rift PvP people are too used to gear progression, to get rid of it, but the grind for it has to be reasonable.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayzed View Post
    From reading the forms it pretty much seems like the majority of the "pvp community" is bunch of whiny babies.Basically wanting pvp gear to be super easy to get, super easy to uprade, super easy to fully gear multiple toons and wants it to be equal to T3 raid quality.
    I'm one of those who would like to see PvP gear equal (or at least near-equal) to T3 gear. Do I want it to be easy? No. Do I want it to be quick? No. The last time bothered to post opinions about this I specifically suggested changes to link fully-upgraded PvP gear to player performance (no one should have a free ride to T3 gear, be they primarily PvE or PvP players).

    If the PvP community could get its collective head out of its posterior, it could likely propose suggestions far better than my own.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kartia View Post
    And we don't want equal to T3 we want pvp gear to be BIS for pvp.
    'We' excludes open world PvPers and PvPers who like to dabble in PvE content. Down-bolstering in Warfronts/Conquest is great for those who limit their activities to those instances only.

    Down-bolstering is a band-aid fix, but what we need is a structural solution.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ongar View Post
    GW 1/2 sees PvP as an eSports, not as a gear grind like most other MMOs.

    I think in Rift PvP people are too used to gear progression, to get rid of it, but the grind for it has to be reasonable.
    There is absolutely no reason that the two can not co-exist. Make Warfronts and Conquest level playing ground gear-wise while maintaining gear progression that would impact OWPvP and PvE.

    Oooh, idea: make a new random queue for gear-neutral warfronts. I would love to participate in those.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stihl View Post
    This was one of my favorite aspects of GW2. Upon entering the mists and entering instanced PvP, everyone had access to the same pool of equipment. Armor, accessories, runes, you could tailor your equipment however you desired but the closest thing to a gear advantage anyone had was understanding which stats to go for in regards to their spec/strategy.
    Trion made a half-hearted attempt at something similar a long time ago, but abandoned it ridiculously quickly when it ran into some difficulties. I'd definitely welcome the chance to PvP on equal ground.

  11. #26
    Soulwalker
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    Cool I can see both sides really.

    Quote Originally Posted by dayzed View Post
    I've been reading the forms a lot more the past couple months and I've come to notice a major trend with the pvp community lately. I do a lot of both pvp & pve so i feel i have a pretty good understanding of the current state of pvp in rift.

    From reading the forms it pretty much seems like the majority of the "pvp community" is bunch of whiny babies.Basically wanting pvp gear to be super easy to get, super easy to uprade, super easy to fully gear multiple toons and wants it to be equal to T3 raid quality. As if they are treating rift like a first person shooter, or something along those lines. Where you can casually log in, put in very little effort, have max weapons, armor, stats, etc and also would like to be able to does this on multiple toons. I don't know about you, but thats dam sure not the type of game i want rift to turn into.

    This didn't use to be the case at all. Back in vanilla, SL, etc. Pvpers were very hardcore! They spent a long time grinding out "the best armor & weapons" and they were badass! I keep trying to figure out whats changed over time to cause this but the only thing i can think of is its a new group of players? I know trion has changed a lot over the years in pvp and maybe thats the cause of a lot of it. Maybe this is the different type of crowed the "free to play" model attracts vs the subscription player base? Im not sure.

    Never the less, This new trend of wanting everything to be super easy to obtain isn't good for rift or the life of the game. And with how much crying there is about these things i wouldn't doubt it if trion ends up giving in to the masses. But what do you think happens when you have all 4-5 of your chars fully geared out, BiS everything within 2-3 months? You will having nothing to work towards, you will start logging in less and less because you don't have anything to work for, so will others, thus resulting in the population getting lower and lower, people stop playing, etc.

    I understand that some things are a little to "grindy" or need to be adjusted and i hope we can get trion to address these issues. In my opinion, and im pretty sure ive heard trion say in the past they try and make it like this is, if you start your "gear grind" at the beginning of a tier, you should be maxed out on that tier just before the second tier is released with an avg amount of game play. If u play more then avg. you will reach the end of the tier quicker then the rest. I agree they need to work on some things but i really feel there is WAY TO MUCH crying and complaining about wanting to have "BiS armor/weapons" with very little work.

    If i were a new player wanting to check out rift, i would come to the forms to try and get a better look into the game, that being said. Anyone who comes to our forms is going to turn and run after reading most of our posts.

    Well sorry to rant, i just feel like this is getting out of hand. We need to be more constructive with our posts and telling trion devs what we want, what will make the game play better, etc.

    Thanks for reading.
    I can see both sides of the argument but one thing I'll say is " no wants to spend months and months working hard and puting alot of time invested to finally get there character close to where they want it. Simply to have an expansion come out that negates all the effort you put into it. Just saying its a bit of a redundant cycle.

  12. #27
    Plane Walker dayzed's Avatar
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    To the above poster. Thats the way rift has ALWAYS been. Thats the way 90% of MMO's are. you grind current content, then after awhile the next tier comes out, and you grind that out.

    People are still saying they want pvp gear to be equal to pve gear. I'll say this again for the 10th time. There is no pvp/pve gear ITS ALL THE SAME! T3 raid is bought with marks you get from winning warfronts and doing pvp weekly quests the same as pve players get there gear.

    For the people comparing GW2 pvp, i think is is also i very bad idea. I don't want equal gear in pvp. I want the guy who has all the badass gear, who has put months and months of time into his gear to be able to steam roll newbs who join WF's. I think this is fair and is real pvp.

    There are some problems with pvp atm, no doubt about that. But the community as a whole needs to get on the same page together and actually focus on the real problems that need to be addressed. There is way to many little dumb topics being brought and asking to be addressed.

    Example, just one the first page of the pvp forms.

    1. PUT AN END TO PREMADE PVP TEAMS.
    2. GET RID OF IT. (remove bronze tomb wf)
    3. Ideas for PvP: Bringing back the open-world fun
    4. Remove Elo or fix the warfront que please
    5. Please add healing bonus to 3/3 PvP set.
    6. Unintended Features (wanting things changed in wf maps)

    And on each of these posts you have people saying yes, fix this! others says no no!

    The posts are all over the place and it doesn't seem the community as a whole knows what the hell they want. Just a bunch of people posting little ideas and others saying "yea, yea!" then completely contradicting themselves on other posts.

    Who are the "leaders" in the pvp community? They should be getting together and focusing on the real issues and helping come up with real solutions to give to the devs. If i were a dev and i wanted to help make pvp in rift better i wouldn't know where to start at all! We need to be more clear on what we want to change. not 10k diffrenet ideas.
    Last edited by dayzed; 01-06-2016 at 11:52 AM.

  13. #28
    Ascendant Xclvsive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayzed View Post
    . I think this is fair and is real pvp.
    It's rift pvp*

    I wouldn't say rift has real pvp, real pvp isn't about roflstomping noobs, which is what rift pvp is all about, rift pvp isn't at all competitive and is all fun & games.

    Real pvp requires an abundance of skill, there isn't a large gear gap and you need to actually pay attention. Think of FPS games like call of duty, that has real pvp.
    Last edited by Xclvsive; 01-06-2016 at 07:28 PM.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riane View Post
    The current system of gear unification is awful and I hate it. This is coming from someone who has always completed current tier of raiding and had BIS gear so right now I benefit the most in PVP, so that should say a lot.

    I miss the old system that relied on just pvping to get your pvp gear. I think they can still do "pvp" gear right now and not have to worry about the old valor/vengeance ********. Keep the Marauder's Caches but reintroduce pvp gear. They just did it for weapons, so clearly they can do it for mark gear.
    Its kind of too late. Long time players like me have quit the game due to the increasing grinds and ridiculousness of keeping up, matched with an game dev team that tries to convince everyone the gear from pve to pvp wasn't "that big a deal" yet most good players know how much it is if you pay attention/know how you performed with same gear in old pvp gearing system vs. now, and against people you know their skill level.

    The funny thing was the issue was never supporting the game with money, which I did. Its the routes they have taken and the fact if I can't support the game with money and be on an even level with pve players, plus now to get the even leveled gear you are spending a wazoo of cash that is not even close to being reasonable for what you are getting. i.e. if the game was purely 15/month the whole system would be more balanced now then it is with players who can jump ahead. Also a point to those who claim gearing isn't that bad with X and X and X since most players can't do so you end up with those that grind it out and those that instantly get everything.

    Throws competition out the door and a good bit of fairness, making for increasingly unbalanced wfs. Oh look we've had those forever and a day now with no improvement. I...wonder....why.....


    As for fixing things if they just made pvp gear stats slightly lower then pve equivelent raid gear, but added a small amount of vengeance, both pve and pvp gear would be about equal with both sides able to obtain what they want in the category of play they want and still compete equally in pvp. No need for valor, which would make the pve gear not as good as the pvp gear. In this way pvp players could also still go raid, but wouldn't have the BIS pve gear, but gear that could get by since its stats are slightly lower (marginally) with vengeance that does nothing in pve.

    BTW some of the smartest players who've left the game over a year ago suggested this already. They were also some of the best players. Methinks the devs should have listened to them and avoided the mass exodus of players this game received due to the changes. Even if they got an influx of pve players with the f2p model, they lost a ton of pvper's whereas they could have retained or gained more pvp players. An unwise, unprofitable decision.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 01-06-2016 at 07:42 PM.

  15. #30
    Plane Walker dayzed's Avatar
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    lol the difference in game vs on this form is so crazy to me. If you didn't pvp and you read this forms you would think a pve player could just hop into a warfront and destroy everyone, when nothing is further from the truth.

    im pretty dam well geared and i still get rolled in warfronts by all other classes. I just don't see this huge difference, at all.

    and Xclusivee you said "think of call of duty" as pvp. Were not talking about first person shooter pvp here man, were talking about MMORPG pvp. Huge difference.

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