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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Unintended Features

  1. #1
    Champion Fallse's Avatar
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    Default Unintended Features

    I think we can all appreciate that there are lots of things that the small PVP community at large would like a bit of dev love on I will just post 3 as I just spent a few hours doing WF's with friends and found these to be used often and in the most obnoxious of ways:

    1) BT - Simple change in the event of a tie team with most kills gets the win - it is PVP after all. Same in Karthan in the event of a tie team with most kills gets the win.

    2) WF - Stone has debuff on a 2 min timer ... after 2 min if the stone is not capped it kills the carrier and resets mid. I have yet to see anyone use this tactic in a non trolling fashion - lets not make it easy to grief the masses.

    3) Karthan - The terrain on the left needs fixing so that either the path up to that area is more clear or it is totally blocked 99% of the playerbase cant get there and its a troll move to hang up there with a stone when its the stronger team doing it and just farming kills. Again lets not make it easy to grief the masses.

    I believe there was a thread a while back about "fun police" if there is a way to troll the average player there will always be a small but annoying few that do it at every chance ... I cant imagine these changes would take much dev time and would lessen the trolling on the average player.

    Thanks for Reading.

    - Edit 2 other things

    1) Have a button to just q for PVP weeklies its a small qol thing
    2) Have a LFG Tool like the tool for NTE's where the Group leader can set the roles needed and then people just join IE 1 Heal 4 DPS / 2 Heals 3 DPS etc ... this would give people a easy way to group up for PVP
    Last edited by Fallse; 01-02-2016 at 08:15 PM.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched KiwiRage's Avatar
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    Support, at least for 1 and 2, never really had much trouble with 3 myself, but have heard some talking about it every now and then.

    Queueing for pvp weeklies only QoL change would be nice.
    Not really sure about the group queues though, will most likely end up the same as we already have it(people forming in x-events and other chat channels to avoid bads).
    Last edited by KiwiRage; 01-02-2016 at 08:34 PM.

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    Rift Team Ocho's Avatar
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    I'll certainly forward these ideas on.

  4. #4
    Champion of Telara Exxyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallse View Post
    I think we can all appreciate that there are lots of things that the small PVP community at large would like a bit of dev love on I will just post 3 as I just spent a few hours doing WF's with friends and found these to be used often and in the most obnoxious of ways:

    1) BT - Simple change in the event of a tie team with most kills gets the win - it is PVP after all. Same in Karthan in the event of a tie team with most kills gets the win.

    2) WF - Stone has debuff on a 2 min timer ... after 2 min if the stone is not capped it kills the carrier and resets mid. I have yet to see anyone use this tactic in a non trolling fashion - lets not make it easy to grief the masses.

    3) Karthan - The terrain on the left needs fixing so that either the path up to that area is more clear or it is totally blocked 99% of the playerbase cant get there and its a troll move to hang up there with a stone when its the stronger team doing it and just farming kills. Again lets not make it easy to grief the masses.

    I believe there was a thread a while back about "fun police" if there is a way to troll the average player there will always be a small but annoying few that do it at every chance ... I cant imagine these changes would take much dev time and would lessen the trolling on the average player.

    Thanks for Reading.

    - Edit 2 other things

    1) Have a button to just q for PVP weeklies its a small qol thing
    2) Have a LFG Tool like the tool for NTE's where the Group leader can set the roles needed and then people just join IE 1 Heal 4 DPS / 2 Heals 3 DPS etc ... this would give people a easy way to group up for PVP
    For the ties, I dont think its really an issue

    I have 8 ties, over nearly 500 matches, but the idea is okay i guess, but its risky, then you'll get team, that wont do objectives, turtle, and just farm kills, knowing that will net them a win =o

    I agree that there should be a damage buff on the carrier after a few minutes, in whitefall,
    I'm pretty sure there was a similar debuff on carrier in the past? might have been removed or lost in coding somewhere ;o

    For the KR part, I've never seen the part you are talking about where people could stand invulnerable at one place to farm kills, also, if you get a team that only farm kills, it kinda happens rarerly with MatchMaking, did'nt see much lately, if it happens on either my side or other side, you'll see me yelling to either team to end the game =o, and people generally listens, unless you get people who just dont care but as i said, happens very rarely =o

    Also, for the Premade Q, i dont think its really an issue, I get to face premade all the time with my high elo, and you get matched with other high elo players ;o

    Just last nite, when i joined, people complained about the Hikos premade again, and we dominated them easily in whitefall, next match they dominated us in bg, and finally we won a fairly balanced codex(not 100% sure which wf it was lol) against them

    Tricks that helps vs premade, Mark their top dpser, so he cant dps your team down
    Some of the premades, have real high dpsers, that sometimes needs to be focused more than healers, if u want your team to stay alive, Try to tell your team, of your observations, so if you have decent teammates, they can counter other team's premade =o

    Also, some premades, dont run with only top notch players, some premades run with some pveers, not as strong as pvper ;o

    Keep in mind, there's always next match
    Yes there is matches where you cant do anything, just move on =o

    Sincerely, Exxy
    Last edited by Exxyy; 01-02-2016 at 11:06 PM.

  5. #5
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    Problem with kill count determine a win is that it can be abused in many ways.

    For example, in BT, 2nd round the attacking side if they have more kills and is at least tied in tomb count they can literally just stand around afk at respawn and it's a win. A better way of forcing a win/loss in the case of a tie is compare the time spent to cap the last tomb... say both teams are 2-2 tie, whichever team that spent the least time to cap the 2nd tomb wins, 1-1 tie compare the time spent to cap the first tomb and so on.

    Karthan Ridge it can be abused a bit differently. This encourages spawn camp after capping just 1 node and then have 2 tanks pick up the stones and run back to their own spawn, slap some heals and now if they dont come to you you win, but if they do you can farm kills even from the ledge of your own spawn.

    I however agree with the WF thing, either bring back carrier healing debuff, or put an expiration time and remove the ability to intentionally drop the flag for other teammate to pick up... eg stone drop caused by using a port or stealth will force the stone to get instantly sent back to the last position either in mid or back to the enemy camp it the flag was taken.

    Whitefall is one of the trollest wf when people take a flag and went back and stand in front of their spawn, stack heals and just farm kills, and run the time out and cap at the last few seconds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallse View Post
    1) BT - Simple change in the event of a tie team with most kills gets the win - it is PVP after all. Same in Karthan in the event of a tie team with most kills gets the win.
    Someone on Rift team I think said some time ago that this map would be changed and the first capper would get the win ( if there's 2 points capped, whoever capped 2nd the fastest win the map, and so on ). I don't expect this to be fixed anytime soon... Given that there's bugs/design flaws everywhere in this map and it's still up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallse View Post
    2) WF - Stone has debuff on a 2 min timer ... after 2 min if the stone is not capped it kills the carrier and resets mid. I have yet to see anyone use this tactic in a non trolling fashion - lets not make it easy to grief the masses.
    I've seen this used all the time in a non-trolling fashion.
    The problem is that sometime it seems that it is trolling when it's not, for an obvious reason : fighting at spawns is easy.

    Say you take the stone in middle because 3/4 of the time no one gives a **** about defending the stone in middle. Then as you are running to base, your entire team is destroyed and your team doesn't get a single kill.

    So you hold the stone, because if you cap you're just giving them the next one. But then they come to base, and as always they just trickle in 2-3 at a time, and you kill their small attacks over and over again. They still control the middle with their respawns and again if you cap, they get the next ones and win. So you keep holding, and keep fighting them 15 vs 3.

    At the end of the game you have 3x more kills than they do, and they think you just trolled them for fun. But you only did whatever was needed to win. And if they got their **** together and attacked as a team 15v15 they would've rolled you at base and stole the stone, but they didn't.

    That being said, yes, I've seen it happen as trolling too... Team A wipes Team B at the middle, still controls it yet won't cap. Or just fight at the middle with stones while it's clear they have the better team.

    But first, I think it happens more often as a strategic move when it's the only way ( see example up there ^^ ) and second, if they do it to troll when they're owning you... what would the fix achieve? They drop it... and retake it and keep on wiping your team? Doesn't do much. If you can't kill the carrier, if your team can't kill a single guy, so you need that fix to kill him... how do you think you're gonna stop them from taking it again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallse View Post
    1) Have a button to just q for PVP weeklies its a small qol thing
    2) Have a LFG Tool like the tool for NTE's where the Group leader can set the roles needed and then people just join IE 1 Heal 4 DPS / 2 Heals 3 DPS etc ... this would give people a easy way to group up for PVP
    This, agreed 100%
    Been saying that for ages.

    I mean it's just basic common sense. Why is there an LFG tool for PVE?
    "Well duh, because you can't clear a dungeon if you don't have the right classes/roles on your team"
    And you can win a pvp game if you don't?

    It's the same deal, really.

    Maps should have a fixed 'ideal class balance' and only pop when enough players are queued for that map. And split 'heals' in 'aoe heals and single target heals' maybe. ( but either way is fine, improvement over what we have ).

    Karthan Ridge with 1 healer against 4 healers is just as stupid as NTE without a tank.
    ( I don't run dungeons but I imagine this is very stupid? ).
    Not having a support class in a 15v15/20v20 can also be very bad for your team.

    Plus, it'd help alleviate some healing burden maybe... You know, how if you heal once you're expected to heal the rest of your ****ing life because everyone else will want you to, and won't want to do it themselves? Well, with that, if you want to DPS, just queue dps, if you want to heal, queue heal...


    Well, again, I've been saying this for a long time...
    The same reason there's an LFG tool in PVE, is why there should be one in PVP as well.

    And I know some people will say 'duh, just make a premade beforehand?'...
    Not everyone is geared as ****. People in average/reasonable gear could not find a pvp premade, and if they tried people would just tell them to queue randomly, unless they're geared up the wazoo and/or a pvp superstar.

  7. #7
    Telaran Lurentia's Avatar
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    Definitely agree about the Whitefall Steppes thing. Too many teams will just get the first stone and hold it the whole match so they can farm the other team while still guaranteeing a win for themselves.
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  8. #8
    Ascendant butkus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    I'll certainly forward these ideas on.
    tell them to put in and afk system that really works because what we have now is just bad.watch the video i posted here a few days ago,i more or less sat Indian style the enitre match and did not get booted,just sad.
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  9. #9
    Champion Fallse's Avatar
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    Default @ Exxyy

    Dont misunderstand I run duo - 5 man all the time. I just thought if there was a tool for more casual PVP'ers it might help them.

    And yeah I know all to well the about the ELO thing I rarely and I mean really rarely ever get good players on my team as my ELO and my partners ELO on almost all our toons is fairly high so yeah but Im ok with that it is what it is.

    That bit of the post was meant more for assisting really casual PVP'ers.

  10. #10
    Champion of Telara Exxyy's Avatar
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    I understand Fallse

    Casual pvpers have to learn the hard way ;o

    And yeah, when i face people that dont even dent my hp, it must be frustrating

    But everyone can progress their gear and learn like I did =o

    I understand also why it could be frustrating to face top pvpers, but they are generally splitted on different sides =o

    But that is kinda how it is

    I see a lot of matches with 6-10 quality players in wfs, where some matches are pretty epic, and sometimes its the undergeared guy, who is willing to play tank, or last nite i asked someone so switch to healin to support my heals, and that saved the match, his/her heals were kinda low, but it made the difference =)

    You can always find a way to shine, and be useful to your team, not always by killing in Wfs

    Just as an example, I know a t3 paragon warrior that hits like a ****ing truck, but you can kite him so easily behind and he gets killed so easily, that it is ridiculous ;o

    Pvp is more complex than it seems =o

    Sincerely, Exxy

  11. #11
    Champion Fallse's Avatar
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    Default Funny Story

    We had a 5 man in PS the other night .. I was like lets go for a boss kill -

    Kill mini dragon Check
    Kill South Idol Check
    Kill MIni Check
    Kill North Idol Check
    /rw Zerg on my position about to go for boss kill everything else is done
    Kill Mini Check
    Get Boss ro 15% Wipe .... couldnt fight the opposing zerg and the boss with a 5 man o well ...

    It was fun and all - we ended up winning the match - but I dont think there was a single person in our raid that had ever succcesfully won a PS with a boss kill.

    Nuff said about the raid comp outside our 5 man.

  12. #12
    Champion of Telara Exxyy's Avatar
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    Seen that many times Pre-Nt

    Never after NT =)

    That sounds really fun tho

    Love, Exxy

  13. #13
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    pre-NT scion was basically a pve map sometime.

    At least half the games were :

    -Team A goes to boss B, while avoiding team B at all cost
    -Team B goes to boss A, while avoiding team A at all cost
    -Both teams DPS the bosses
    -At some point someone calls that their bosses is dying faster than the enemy boss, so they have to wipe enemy raid
    -Everyone disagree about what to do, eventually like 5 people try to go wipe their raid and the rest just want to DPS harder ( like, press the keys harder or something ).
    -The 5-man group fails, the boss group fails, enemy team downs the boss and the map is over with like 7 (pvp) kills total for a 10 minutes 20 vs 20.

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