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Thread: The stalemate meta

  1. #1
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Default The stalemate meta

    The core concept of Rift is versatility and the mantra "bring the player, not the class" is repeated often when referencing the fact that every calling is capable of fulfilling any role with a 2s cast and a loadequip macro. This obviously takes role locking/limiting off the table as an option but something needs to be done to curb the current "stalemate meta".

    It's at the point where almost every other match one of the two teams in a warfront is likely to have 2 Libs, 2 Chloros, a Puri, a Warden, a Dom, a Cab, and a VK out of 12 players. I was in one match earlier where there was a 4 person and a 3 person premade on the opposing team and of those 7 players (on a team of 10) 6 were healing and the 7th was a tank.

    This doesn't just occur in Bronze Tie Tomb, this is likely to happen in any game type on any map. Obviously there are situations where this setup actually costs said team the game, but that does not make the gameplay any more enjoyable. I've always been a proponent of the "a win is a win" ideal, but I cannot support that here. At the end of one of these matches, I feel the same, win or lose. ****ty.

    I mentioned earlier that role limiting/locking is not an option, and you don't receive enough rewards from PvP as it is for structural changes there to make any impact. Typically the horrible gameplay a tactic like this produces is enough of a deterrent on its own to prevent it from becoming popular but Rift PvP has been neglected for so long that the bar is low enough to walk over at this point in regards to player enjoyment.

    I've tried looking at it from numerous angles and have yet to think of anything I view as an acceptable/effective option.
    • Team wide heal debuffs for every player in a healing role above 30% of the team: No.
    • Increased damage taken for every 30s a player is alive: No.
    • Reduced point gain for teams with less kills than their opponent: No.
    • All matches reaching timer result in a tie: No.
    • Increasing ability costs based off healing received per life: No.

    The best option I have come up with is fiddling with respawn timers. Having dynamic respawn timers that are adjusted based off some function of healing/damage done/taken (either individual or team based) might allow for stalemates to be broken after the first domino falls without horribly altering the actual PvP gameplay itself (which as already mentioned is in a bad place and doesn't need to be made worse). Obviously sitting in the graveyard for 60s because your team decided to stack heals isn't an exciting prospect but it is the most palatable one I have come across thus far.

    Am I crazy? Am I seeing an issue where one doesn't exist? Do other players actually enjoy this and I'm in the unlucky minority? Have you come across better solutions in other games or can you think of something original to solve this?
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  2. #2
    Champion of Telara McChaffe's Avatar
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    Nah, it's an issue, but the respawn timers could prove an issue because of the amount of possible ways a team could die or how players could die when moving from room to room. I've seen VKs on both teams successfully wipe out groups of five players by using the fountains in the map, which could prove disastrous for a defending team if their respawn is 60 seconds.

    When it comes to dealing with the issues in the last room, I think a king of the hill, having the objective transformed into a PvE boss or possibly allowing anyone to channel on it without being interrupted (exlcuding knockbacks, which would still work) that sends the objective on a cap timer where a defender has to run up and channel to defend it could possibly work better.

    Respawns in the map are already buggy, so I personally don't want Trion to do any changes to the respawn system until those issues are fixed.
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  3. #3
    Phs
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    A hidden healing debuff that reduces the effectiveness of heals, on person being healed, from the more unique healers they are healed by (including all aoe and st heals, hots, and shields). Thereby rendering stacking numerous healers pointless.

    eg. After 3 unique healers (st and or aoe) if something new starts tagging you, everything on you is dropped in effectiveness by some number.

    Specifically also targets Whitefall holding.
    Last edited by Phs; 01-01-2016 at 01:14 PM.

  4. #4
    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    What if aoe heals had their mana increased in pvp or something?

    At least ST crosshealing requires looking at the screen for a bit. I know the problem isn't just aoe healing, but I tend to think the ease of it compared to how much it helps is an issue.

    Also nerf preserver's restore. The trend of stacking multiple functions into one ability needs to die in a fire.

  5. #5
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    Also nerf preserver's restore. The trend of stacking multiple functions into one ability needs to die in a fire.
    >:] my favorite thing to do against reavers still

  6. #6
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phs View Post
    A hidden healing debuff that reduces the effectiveness of heals, on person being healed, from the more unique healers they are healed by (including all aoe and st heals, hots, and shields). Thereby rendering stacking numerous healers pointless.

    eg. After 3 unique healers (st and or aoe) if something new starts tagging you, everything on you is dropped in effectiveness by some number.

    Specifically also targets Whitefall holding.
    I debated an approach like this but there's too much tiny splash healing. How many Bard hybrids do you see in wfs? BM hybrids, unaware Mages using LGV or Withering Vine in dps specs, Salvation (be it full on Justicars or Inqs subbed into it), Arb, Tact, Titian, Oracle... There's just so many ways for this to affect "regular" comps without the devs going in and individually tagging every one of these abilities to not trigger the mechanic based on some pretty specific conditions (which I don't see happening).
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    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riane View Post
    >:] my favorite thing to do against reavers still
    reavers and the one nice person that goes dom to try and counter stalemates.
    Last edited by spaceboots; 01-01-2016 at 01:47 PM.

  8. #8
    General of Telara littlepoit's Avatar
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    this is why i don't want to see dom nerfed (i ' d be ok with a smart and targeted nerf but in 5 years i have never seen trion nerf anything without destroying a spec).
    the trinity is fine but support is really the icing on the cake... it makes the game smarter and more diverse.

  9. #9
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    reavers and the one nice person that goes dom to try and counter stalemates.
    nice person?! :<

  10. #10
    Plane Walker
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    I think role slot limitations might be a feasible idea, though it's slightly counter to Rift's fundamental appeal of choosing any role you want regardless of your class calling.

    In a match of 15v15, there could be limitations to 3 healers and 2 support for each team, though anyone is free to change so as long as slots are open. That way you actually have to coordinate who's the more effective healer for the match depending on the damage being done, etc. Limiting the WF to 2 tanks each may also work, though it's more likely that you will only have 1 or 2 tanks at most on your team anyway.

    What's effectively preventing this as a solution is simply in the matchmaking process itself. You will oftentimes have people who aren't at the same gear/skill level vs. the other team, and in no reasonable way will this be able to take place when multiple premade teams can join.

    Something I read before posted by ChamberDown (or someone like that, forgot his/her SN really) was to implement diminishing returns on healing. That way your individual healing effectiveness decreases and you can no longer continue to simply heal yourself back up however much until after you have died and respawned. Having it as a stacking debuff or to have certain orbs/crystals/objectives that place a stack on this debuff to the other team would help. Stacks might be able to be removed by clicking on certain crystals/orbs, that way making healing more reliant on going elsewhere on the map and not sitting in mid/on an objective. A stack might be placed every 15/30s, with each time decreasing your individual effective healing by 2-3% per stack.
    Last edited by Wonski; 01-01-2016 at 05:14 PM.
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  11. #11
    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    problem with role slot limitations theres usually only 2 or three wfs going on a time. Skip queues and see. One of the good points of rift pvp is that the merc system is forced. Wow is close, but theres is still optional.

    I don't want to wait to die to a t3 player mashing his any key harder than me.

  12. #12
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
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    Healing diminishing returns sounds pretty damn terrible. If that's the case, if a DPS hasn't died x amount of times or has x amount of KBs, let's diminish their output so they have to die to be effective again...

  13. #13
    Telaran
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    Really? I feel lucky to be on a team that has more than 1 healer.

    If we are going to need heals we might as well need dps too, I get 3 shot way to frequently

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riane View Post
    Healing diminishing returns sounds pretty damn terrible. If that's the case, if a DPS hasn't died x amount of times or has x amount of KBs, let's diminish their output so they have to die to be effective again...
    Not only that but healers have been reduced to punching bags already, and still need more nerfing ? Role locking is what is needed, they cannot possibly spoon feed dps anymore than they have.
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  15. #15
    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluntmaster View Post
    Not only that but healers have been reduced to punching bags already, and still need more nerfing ? Role locking is what is needed, they cannot possibly spoon feed dps anymore than they have.
    Huh? Healers suffer the same problem as dps in pvp ... too much burst. Even you just roll your face on the keyboard and bring someone full hp.

    You're getting burst, everyones getting burst. Archonix is giving burst to everyone! Who cares about power creep.
    Last edited by spaceboots; 01-01-2016 at 08:33 PM.

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