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Thread: PvP fix.

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Thumbs up PvP fix.

    PvP was great in this game. WAS. Now? Its garbage 90% of the time. Balance? Where? Don't even get me started on that Bronze Tomb abomination....
    Easy fix here Trion. Gear score matching for PvP.

    1. 800-1k hit, 1k-1.2k, 1.2k and above brackets.

    2. (Gonna piss A LOT of people off with this but...) Eliminate premade teams. Solo que only.

    3. ELIMINATE ASSAULT ON BRONZE TOMB! I'll go out on a limb here and say you will not find more than 5 players game wide that like that WF IF you can find that many. Save your coders, engineers, and complaint department a lot of time and trouble and just get rid of that buggy, "Ascended Disgrace" causing piece of garbage... I understand that it wasn't possible to test it fully on the PTS, i have no doubt you did the best you could with it..but there comes a point when you need to let things go. Kinda like throwing out a wilted flower...Or a rotten dead skunk.

    Not a rage thread, You guys at Trion do a great job MOST of the time...but seriously bring back vengeance/ valor institute a gear score to keep things more balanced and get rid of Bronze Tomb.
    Samentha Rissing, Born on the Vaiyuu - Faeblight

  2. #2
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    '96 - '07: People played team games on voice comm and groups and nobody batted an eye. Now 3 people queue together on a 15 man team and this game's players lose their mind.
    New round up of some high rank matches
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  3. #3
    Ascendant Artewig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appokolyte View Post
    1. 800-1k hit, 1k-1.2k, 1.2k and above brackets.
    Not sure how this would work. If you don't include gear from bags, people could just take gear off, queue, then put gear on. If you do account for gear in bags, what if you have barely any dps gear but 1200 hit tank? Then you get put in the upper tier and get wrecked.

    Another thing. Hit doesn't necessarily determine gear quality. If you have all T2 non-hit pieces and all 100 hit pieces + 175 hit weapons, you'd be put in a lower bracket even though the quality of your gear is much higher. A system based on hit like that is incredibly exploitable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Appokolyte View Post
    2. (Gonna piss A LOT of people off with this but...) Eliminate premade teams. Solo que only.
    Ocho has already said this won't happen so gl. Plus, premades aren't nearly as much of an issue with working matchmaking and competent players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Appokolyte View Post
    3. ELIMINATE ASSAULT ON BRONZE TOMB! I'll go out on a limb here and say you will not find more than 5 players game wide that like that WF IF you can find that many. Save your coders, engineers, and complaint department a lot of time and trouble and just get rid of that buggy, "Ascended Disgrace" causing piece of garbage... I understand that it wasn't possible to test it fully on the PTS, i have no doubt you did the best you could with it..but there comes a point when you need to let things go. Kinda like throwing out a wilted flower...Or a rotten dead skunk.
    I hate the wf in it's current state. That being said, I think it should be improved rather than removed. I like the style and the map itself. It has a ton of potential, people just need to get their minds off how it needs to be removed and start thinking about how to go about fixing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    '96 - '07: People played team games on voice comm and groups and nobody batted an eye. Now 3 people queue together on a 15 man team and this game's players lose their mind.
    Too many players now aren't willing to put in the work. They will jump at anything to prove that something is preventing them from succeeding. "This duo had 300k combined damage and 8 deaths between them, but they queued together so their team must have had an advantage."
    Last edited by Artewig; 12-29-2015 at 10:48 PM.
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  4. #4
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    '96 - '07: People played team games on voice comm and groups and nobody batted an eye. Now 3 people queue together on a 15 man team and this game's players lose their mind.
    hiya mate, back then, im willing to bet that THOSE people fought mostly OTHER groups, and rarely lone players.

    in my counterstrike days, we had our own clan. we mostly took on other clans, pubbed only when there was nobody else to challenge.

  5. #5
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artewig View Post
    Not sure how this would work. If you don't include gear from bags, people could just take gear off, queue, then put gear on. If you do account for gear in bags, what if you have barely any dps gear but 1200 hit tank? Then you get put in the upper tier and get wrecked.

    Another thing. Hit doesn't necessarily determine gear quality. If you have all T2 non-hit pieces and all 100 hit pieces + 175 hit weapons, you'd be put in a lower bracket even though the quality of your gear is much higher. A system based on hit like that is incredibly exploitable.



    Ocho has already said this won't happen so gl. Plus, premades aren't nearly as much of an issue with working matchmaking and competent players.



    I hate the wf in it's current state. That being said, I think it should be improved rather than removed. I like the style and the map itself. It has a ton of potential, people just need to get their minds off how it needs to be removed and start thinking about how to go about fixing it.



    Too many players now aren't willing to put in the work. They will jump at anything to prove that something is preventing them from succeeding. "This duo had 300k combined damage and 8 deaths between them, but they queued together so their team must have had an advantage."
    I agree with almost everything you said, BUT my post wasn't meant to be an absolute fix it was meant to get the PVP community talking about the issues. It has succeeded if only mildly. Most of the WF's now are steamroll fests. Either you're on the team doing the steamrolling or you're getting rolled, and sooo much of that is people not even trying. (Not people with **** gear or people new to it that don't get the objectives i'm talking about the afk'ers that squat at base and jump occasionally to avoid the afk tag.)

    Anyway while my "solutions" may not be ideal..they may provide a starting point. Maybe...then again what do i know i'm just a gamer.
    Samentha Rissing, Born on the Vaiyuu - Faeblight

  6. #6
    Plane Walker
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    I dont understand this whole "Pvp is broke". Could it be better, YES.....but what game could you not say that about. Balancing in my mind is an impossible task
    It will never be 100% balanced unless you make 4 default classes with everyone having the same stats gear doesnt count. Just basic pre made classes heals, tank, dps and support. All classes have the same 4 specs to pic with same abilities. Have some sort of cosmetic skins that can only be unlocked with time/wins ect. This is the only way to be 100% balnced. That gear out of it and have it all be skill.

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple sicklemehellmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenx2020 View Post
    I dont understand this whole "Pvp is broke". Could it be better, YES.....but what game could you not say that about. Balancing in my mind is an impossible task
    It will never be 100% balanced unless you make 4 default classes with everyone having the same stats gear doesnt count. Just basic pre made classes heals, tank, dps and support. All classes have the same 4 specs to pic with same abilities. Have some sort of cosmetic skins that can only be unlocked with time/wins ect. This is the only way to be 100% balnced. That gear out of it and have it all be skill.
    There's a game thats going to try something similar to this next year.
    "I love it!" - Frank Drebin

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sicklemehellmo View Post
    There's a game thats going to try something similar to this next year.
    uhh Guildwars already did this, from years ago.

    this is cool and all but it's really a double-edged sword...
    while it's cool that everyone has an equal footing at least gear wise, at the same time people are also complaining about the lack of gear progression... or the lack of sense of achievement in watching your character grow stronger and stronger.

    basically it's the same question as "Would raiding MoM be fun and enjoyable when the second you zone into MoM you are instantly given full BiS T3 gears and weapons all pre-upgraded to relic for you." sure pvp is different in a way but it just wouldn't fly too well in a mmo environment...
    Last edited by FateStayNight; 12-30-2015 at 02:33 PM.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple sicklemehellmo's Avatar
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    You overunderestimated my sarcasm.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appokolyte View Post
    2. (Gonna piss A LOT of people off with this but...) Eliminate premade teams. Solo que only.
    .
    As I've said in a different thread, all they would have to do is to split premades among both teams.

    So the players would still 'play together' (i.e. in the same game), just not on the same team.
    I mean if you play a baseball game and 6 MLB players comes to play with you, what are you gonna do? Put 6 MLB players and 3 amateurs against 9 amateurs?
    of course not. That'd would be a roll, absolutely zero challenge for them, and zero fun for anyone. What they would do is obviously to put 3 MLB players and 6 amateurs in each teams. Let them play on the same game, but some have to play against each others too.

    But premades would complain that it's all about teamworks, competing, working together and all that crap... Yet there is a "ranked" mode that I assume is collecting dust more often than anything, which would be ideal for that.

    But most premades would rather just roll pugs.
    And I've been in heavy PVP guilds in other games before, it's pretty much always that. Populations were lower, so we could 'snipe' a premade...

    So we heard of some premade that had been rolling pugs for hours, so we grouped up and queued... wiped the floor with them once, and then they didn't queue anymore.

    Because what they did to random pugs ( rolling them ) isn't fun when it happens to them.. yet they don't mind inflicting it on others.

    If premades would be split amongs both teams, they,d still "play together", just split on different teams. And if they are against and would rather play as a team because competitive and all that... There's a ranked mode for that.

    I queue with a friend sometime and we wouldn't mind if it'd put us on different teams half the time.


    And the thing is, the matchmaker doesn't work. Even if it works sometime it wouldn't be enough ( when a solid premade is on, sometime there would not even be a way to put the other players, the premade + any 10 would win against any 15 )... But it doesn'T even work, so even when the premade isn't THAT dominating, when there IS a way to split the remaining players that would make a game fair... it doesn'T do it.

    At least half of the "zerg" maps ( karthan ridge for example, the one with the stones to carry, not the point to cap ) end up with a team having like 10x more kills.
    It's not even rare that the losing team kills just about no one at all.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker
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    Can we just find a way to eliminate useless players from queueing wfs? A blue/green no earring is just not gonna help anyone. It sucks for him and it sucks for his teammates. Can we just have a 1200 hit requirement or something for wfs? These days it is so easy to get 1200 hit. We are not asking everyone to be pros but at least be a bit useful.

  12. #12
    Plane Walker Hectyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurgi of Prydain View Post
    Can we just find a way to eliminate useless players from queueing wfs? A blue/green no earring is just not gonna help anyone. It sucks for him and it sucks for his teammates. Can we just have a 1200 hit requirement or something for wfs? These days it is so easy to get 1200 hit. We are not asking everyone to be pros but at least be a bit useful.
    This is a slippery slope you're describing with this concept.

    The game lacks the population to segregate players in multiple queues based on gear & such- so your solution is to use the quality of gear to determine whether a player is even eligible for instanced pvp?

    What about at lower levels?

    What effect would eliminating a considerable portion of those interested in warfronts have on the frequency of warfront queues?

    Does having appropriate gear ensure a specific standard of performance?


    I think most of us know the answers to these questions- and none of the answers contribute to any positive resolution of the problem.

  13. #13
    Champion MissGreen's Avatar
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    In the past two weeks all my games have been balanced if not close but no cigar....
    trust me...I think it still is based on the motivation of the team/teams...I really feel the game is fine with pvp and the wf's , I think people just are or not choosing to step **** up when its needed and that includes switching roles, Rift programmers have 0 to do with it...imo, I mean some classes need to be balanced for sure , like my lock but im not going there in this thread. I think the overall game is and always will be based on your teams effort as well as your own. That goes for any game though...
    "I've had so many names, old names that only the wind and trees can pronounce" - Pan's Labyrinth

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple JICHAEL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somerandomnamee View Post
    It's not even rare that the losing team kills just about no one at all.
    That is a problem with the PvP (Pocket healer vs Pocket healer?) in this game. It takes away all aspects of what makes PvP in all other games.. positioning, decission making, twitch skills etc etc.
    H / K O X B O X

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  15. #15
    Champion LSUdogg's Avatar
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    hell, i don't even have 1200 hit. guess i can't pvp anymore.
    "That which does not kill us makes us stronger." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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