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Thread: It's time to rebalance

  1. #1
    Plane Touched Liandell's Avatar
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    Default It's time to rebalance

    It's seriously time to rebalance the power disparity between ranged dps souls and melee. This has gone on for long enough. I don't understand why certain ranged souls continually get damage buffs when they are the most immune to CC, have the strongest CC in the game, are able to dps better than most melee from the safety of range, and have the same mitigation/hp as melee. What's the point of playing a melee class when everything else can be done better by a ranged equivalent?

    Inquisitor is getting buffed yet again, despite its channels already being powerful, it being able to easily subspec into a 20 second cc break, and having a fear that doesn't reliably break on damage. Why is it getting buffed without hesitation when it sounds like the devs are getting cold feet on the shaman readjustments? We don't need more ranged damage sources. Why does dark passage get to remove crowd control whereas RB's rift travel and riftwalk are greyed out when CC'd (and we actually need to be in range for some abilities).

    Pyro has some of the best CC in the game, very strong burst, and is again able to cc break once every 20 seconds due to the ease of subspeccing into ride the wind as well as having flicker. It also has a better personal absorb shield than any of the warrior melee souls, as well as damage reduction upon burning charge. Mages can also spec dom and have the most broken repertoire of CC I have seen in any MMO, and can do it all from the safety of range. The change to pain armor wasn't enough, doms are still the fun police of pvp!

    And so on... (buff MM ;)

    Most of the ranged souls in the game (with a few exceptions) are able to do more more effectively and safely than their melee counterparts. There's very little reason to risk your neck playing melee when your equivalent ranged soul can do it so much better while hiding behind healers and even facetank damage better than you.

    I'm tired of this being rift pvp:

    http://www.farrismarketing.com/wp-co...-shoot-out.jpg

    If anyone has suggestions on how to bring ranged souls better in line with their melee counterparts, chime in!
    Last edited by Liandell; 12-26-2015 at 11:58 AM.

  2. #2
    Plane Walker
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    Make ranged abilities limited to 3/5/7-35 meters instead of near-melee-35 meters. That way you have to actually stand back from melee in order to do damage. It's for the same reason a leap/plunge/port to your target in a melee spec is 2-20/30 meters.

    At the same time I don't want to be one-shot by a melee who puts me into a stun then bursts me down, and I just think that TTK is way too quick nowadays for all specs, especially with Pyro and Inq ranged specs.
    Last edited by Wonski; 12-26-2015 at 12:21 PM.
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  3. #3
    Ascendant butkus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonski View Post
    Make ranged abilities limited to 3/5/7-35 meters instead of near-melee-35 meters. That way you have to actually stand back from melee in order to do damage. It's for the same reason a leap/plunge/port to your target in a melee spec is 2-20/30 meters.

    At the same time I don't want to be one-shot by a melee who puts me into a stun then bursts me down, and I just think that TTK is way too quick nowadays for all specs, especially with Pyro and Inq ranged specs.

    "and I just think that TTK is way too quick nowadays"

    you can say that again!

    " a leap/plunge/port to your target in a melee spec is 2-20/30 meters"

    as a warrior main with a rogue alt i can tell you that warrior charges have a distance requirement and los but rogues ports do not.ports are night and day better then any warrior charge.
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  4. #4
    Rift Chaser DeLivia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butkus View Post
    "and I just think that TTK is way too quick nowadays"

    you can say that again!

    " a leap/plunge/port to your target in a melee spec is 2-20/30 meters"

    as a warrior main with a rogue alt i can tell you that warrior charges have a distance requirement and los but rogues ports do not.ports are night and day better then any warrior charge.
    Rogue also only has ports in Riftstalker, which is a tank soul. Going those 11 points into RS just for a teleport certainly won't give any advantage over someone who'd spend those 11 points elsewhere. Any serious melee rogue would stick with Flash of Steel in BD or Leaping Plunge in Sin, which function precisely the same way as Warrior charges.
    Last edited by DeLivia; 12-26-2015 at 01:26 PM.

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser ChamberDown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liandell View Post
    It's seriously time to rebalance the power disparity between ranged dps souls and melee. This has gone on for long enough. I don't understand why certain ranged souls continually get damage buffs when they are the most immune to CC, have the strongest CC in the game, are able to dps better than most melee from the safety of range, and have the same mitigation/hp as melee. What's the point of playing a melee class when everything else can be done better by a ranged equivalent?

    Inquisitor is getting buffed yet again, despite its channels already being powerful, it being able to easily subspec into a 20 second cc break, and having a fear that doesn't reliably break on damage. Why is it getting buffed without hesitation when it sounds like the devs are getting cold feet on the shaman readjustments? We don't need more ranged damage sources. Why does dark passage get to remove crowd control whereas RB's rift travel and riftwalk are greyed out when CC'd (and we actually need to be in range for some abilities).

    Pyro has some of the best CC in the game, very strong burst, and is again able to cc break once every 20 seconds due to the ease of subspeccing into ride the wind as well as having flicker. It also has a better personal absorb shield than any of the warrior melee souls, as well as damage reduction upon burning charge. Mages can also spec dom and have the most broken repertoire of CC I have seen in any MMO, and can do it all from the safety of range. The change to pain armor wasn't enough, doms are still the fun police of pvp!

    And so on... (buff MM ;)

    Most of the ranged souls in the game (with a few exceptions) are able to do more more effectively and safely than their melee counterparts. There's very little reason to risk your neck playing melee when your equivalent ranged soul can do it so much better while hiding behind healers and even facetank damage better than you.

    I'm tired of this being rift pvp:

    http://www.farrismarketing.com/wp-co...-shoot-out.jpg

    If anyone has suggestions on how to bring ranged souls better in line with their melee counterparts, chime in!
    I think the real issue is that EVERYONE plays ranged specs. So if you're one of the few who actually plays melee, you get tabbed/focused extremely quickly. What I would suggest, is diminishing returns on ranged abilities. Such as..

    30m+ Ranged soul maximum damage
    25-30m Ranged soul -20% maximum damage
    15-25m Ranged soul -30% maximum damage
    5-15m Ranged soul -40% maximum damage
    0-5m Ranged soul -75% maximum damage

    This prevents the ranged soul "Face Tanking" and actually makes strategic rooting/gap closing prevent ranged DPS burst. It also means that these clumps of 10 ranged DPS will be dealing MUCH less burst to melee players who cross the combat threshold and get into the middle of all those players. This obviously would need some thought, since some classes like NB are only capable of ranged DPS from 20m, but you get the idea. An additional benefit to this setup is that ranged DPS won't just stack up and take the reduced damage, they'll spread out, which means it should help break up these annoying heal locks that are constantly happening all the time.

    That would be something I could get behind, I love playing melee, it's just not practical right now, save a few maps.

    *EDIT* I realize these values might seem pretty harsh, they are just an example. Could be tweaked based on testing and all that.

    *2nd EDIT* Another idea that just popped into my head is new gametypes that put a debuff on all DPS players reducing their damage to zero if outside a 5m hit box. This could be a way to force a melee on melee gametype, which I think would be a blast to play. Although I don't know how this could affect players who don't have/carry any melee specs..
    Last edited by ChamberDown; 12-26-2015 at 04:07 PM.
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  6. #6
    Rift Chaser Xamaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChamberDown View Post
    I think the real issue is that EVERYONE plays ranged specs. So if you're one of the few who actually plays melee, you get tabbed/focused extremely quickly. What I would suggest, is diminishing returns on ranged abilities. Such as..

    30m+ Ranged soul maximum damage
    25-30m Ranged soul -20% maximum damage
    15-25m Ranged soul -30% maximum damage
    5-15m Ranged soul -40% maximum damage
    0-5m Ranged soul -75% maximum damage

    This prevents the ranged soul "Face Tanking" and actually makes strategic rooting/gap closing prevent ranged DPS burst. It also means that these clumps of 10 ranged DPS will be dealing MUCH less burst to melee players who cross the combat threshold and get into the middle of all those players. This obviously would need some thought, since some classes like NB are only capable of ranged DPS from 20m, but you get the idea. An additional benefit to this setup is that ranged DPS won't just stack up and take the reduced damage, they'll spread out, which means it should help break up these annoying heal locks that are constantly happening all the time.

    That would be something I could get behind, I love playing melee, it's just not practical right now, save a few maps.

    *EDIT* I realize these values might seem pretty harsh, they are just an example. Could be tweaked based on testing and all that.

    *2nd EDIT* Another idea that just popped into my head is new gametypes that put a debuff on all DPS players reducing their damage to zero if outside a 5m hit box. This could be a way to force a melee on melee gametype, which I think would be a blast to play. Although I don't know how this could affect players who don't have/carry any melee specs..
    A majority of players play ranged specs vs melee because they are simply so much better. Why play paragon when you can do the same damage with pyromancer from 35 meters and have considerably better cc and anti-cc?

    It is beyond me how any can rationally justify pyromancer or marksman as being balanced in pvp. I jumped on my horribly undergeared mage today (basically fresh 65), still in all warlords gear and some other random pieces i have gotten from instant adventures. I was actually shocked at how overpowered it was despite my lack of gear. I was bursting down players with considerably more gear than myself within seconds and if focused even though i was extremely squishy i could just teleport away every 20 seconds and break all cc or if that was on cooldown just hit ride the wind and get a full cc break AND a speed boost.

    "But Pyromancer is squishy glass cannon spec"

    Um.... no, just 4 points in stormcaller will give you 5% damage reduction IN ADDITION to 20% damage reduction for 15 seconds when activating Heat Wave. Oh yes and Burning Shield AND an absorb bubble which procs when you activate internalize charge.

    Ranged life is just too hard isnt it......
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  7. #7
    Plane Walker Hectyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liandell View Post
    Most of the ranged souls in the game (with a few exceptions) are able to do more more effectively and safely than their melee counterparts.
    Don't blame Trion- blame the playerbase.

    Sure, lots of us would prefer more of a melee & ranged dynamic in warfronts- but the majority cries out for nerfs whenever a melee spec fits the design for which it is intended- high damage, durability and the ability to stay on target.

    Riftblade. Bladedancer. Warlord. The many justicar hybrids.

    All of these (as well as many others) were reduced to "niche specs" simply because many players felt that they overperformed in the pvp environment- and some did to a certain extent- but no compromise or common ground can be achieved with the varying perspectives, and the end result is the current situation.

    Since Rift went F2P, the majority of players prefer "easy-mode" ranged specs that they learned in Conquest....

    Kind of sad, really.

  8. #8
    Ascendant butkus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLivia View Post
    Rogue also only has ports in Riftstalker, which is a tank soul. Going those 11 points into RS just for a teleport certainly won't give any advantage over someone who'd spend those 11 points elsewhere. Any serious melee rogue would stick with Flash of Steel in BD or Leaping Plunge in Sin, which function precisely the same way as Warrior charges.
    like i said rogue ports are night and day better then warrior charges and the ports in riftstalker are in a class by themselves,matter of fact riftstalker makes for a good soul to hybrid with.
    I did not invent Warladin I perfected it!
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  9. #9
    Rift Chaser DeLivia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butkus View Post
    like i said rogue ports are night and day better then warrior charges and the ports in riftstalker are in a class by themselves,matter of fact riftstalker makes for a good soul to hybrid with.
    You're still comparing teleports in a tank soul to charge abilities in DPS souls. Teleports might be better, but that's also the reason it's in a tank soul to begin with.

    Besides, I could counter with Rift Summon, which is even better than any teleport in Riftstalker. Teleporting to the enemy instead of the other way around attracts a lot more enemy focus. But you're right, Riftstalker hybrid specs are OP, doesn't matter that it hits like a wet noodle and you're completely useless to your team. Buff warrior pls.
    Last edited by DeLivia; 12-27-2015 at 07:49 AM.

  10. #10
    Ascendant ecru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butkus View Post
    like i said rogue ports are night and day better then warrior charges and the ports in riftstalker are in a class by themselves,matter of fact riftstalker makes for a good soul to hybrid with.
    uh no one goes deep into rs anymore. why is this even being talked about?
    Last edited by ecru; 12-27-2015 at 09:51 AM.
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  11. #11
    Telaran
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    I go deep... real deep!



    no seriously, just nerf warriors

  12. #12
    Shadowlander
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    It's been 14 months since NMT release and there's been a grand total of zero melee changes.

    I wish you luck.
    Last edited by Nearest; 12-27-2015 at 10:12 PM.
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  13. #13
    Plane Touched Xibitz's Avatar
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    Default Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nearest View Post
    It's been 14 months since NMT tide release and there's been a grand total of zero melee changes.

    I wish you luck.
    At least Paragon is decent when it comes to melee....until a Pyro cc you from the safety of distance and proceed to annihilate you with no chance of getting out of it.

    I find it funny while ranged classes are currently OP, there's many players that don't hold up well 1v1 against melee, especially if you have a pull.
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  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer
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    Move all the extra break frees deep into melee souls, or at least the ones on shorter cooldowns than a minute. Now it's usually the ranged souls which have those while melee are the ones that would need them more. I would also remove the CC components from interrupts and have them as separate abilities that take a gcd to use.

  15. #15
    Champion
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    gief warlord back plox

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