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Thread: Marksman, CC and Utility.

  1. #1
    Ascendant Gilgad's Avatar
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    Default Marksman, CC and Utility.

    Just curious as to why Marksman does so much damage, and has so much CC? Either nerf the damage, or nerf the CC. No soul should have so much mobile damage and have the most cc in a dps soul in the game, it is ridiculous. Primalists don't even have a debilitate or a stun in vulcanist, we have an interrupt and a root.

    For the love of god, why do marksmen need:

    AOE Knock back
    AOE Quad knock back that deals damage
    Double purge (Best purge in the game)
    Interrupt, that also silences
    Non-Cleansable 8 second root.
    50% Movement speed that shields and also removes movement imparing effects and makes you immune for 5 seconds.
    Leap back which also makes you immune to movement imparing effects for 5 seconds and also removes them.
    A full cleanse.
    AOE Armour debuff
    And most of all, when you attack something, you get faster.

    Seriously, either Nerf the damage, make it less mobile, or nerf the amount of utility this monster has, it is insane.

    Make it like vulcanist utility!

    A cleansable 5 second root.
    An interrupt.

    Marksman is literally the most anti-melee ranged build i've ever seen, it speeds up when it attacks you, it can root you and you can't do anything, silence you, knock you back repeatedly with multiple abilities, leap back, purge you, out dps you, like what the hell.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Ballzyboy's Avatar
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    Yeah it's op, mb 10 threads like this, be original plz .

    Prima was design for raids, and only for this, you don't need silence, stun or root, a kick is enough (in raid ofc). Some players i know participated to build primalist. Design isn't only from the dev.
    Last edited by Ballzyboy; 12-17-2015 at 02:58 AM.

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    Ascendant Gilgad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballzyboy View Post
    Yeah it's op, mb 10 threads like this, be original plz .

    Prima was design for raids, and only for this, you don't need silence, stun or root, a kick is enough (in raid ofc). Some players i know participated to build primalist. Design isn't only from the dev.
    The thread is not about comparison between primalist and marksman. It is simply a question as to why MM as has much utility as it has, whilst still having as much mobility and damage it does.

    My reference to vulcanist was only because I am salty that I literally can't do anything to a marksman on my vulcanist.
    Last edited by Gilgad; 12-17-2015 at 03:05 AM.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple Ballzyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgad View Post
    The thread is not about comparison between primalist and marksman. It is simply a question as to why MM as has much utility as it has, whilst still having as much mobility and damage it does.

    My reference to vulcanist was only because I am salty that I literally can't do anything to a marksman on my vulcanist.
    I play/played all specs, i can tell you i dps/kills near the same on the differents ranged st dps, with inq, vulca, pyro, mm, tempest (a bit less with tempest ^^)

    Some have more utilities, some more burst, some more sustain dps... finally it's near the same for all.

    to compare to the other ranged st dps

    pyro burst far higher than mm, less sustain dps and can use 2 cc 1 stun then 1 silence insta after the immun, mm can't. root cleasable, but with the meta-game without preserver and puri you can easily cover your root with your pick up, as warlock or reaver or whatever. both have a "tp/jump"
    Pyro have an equal shield from the mm move speed one. etc

    inq, burst higher, purge less effective from mm, far more survival, aoe fear, st fear, etc etc

    tempest, funy burst, mb less than mm, but that cool and fun to play anyway, uncleasable root too if i remember well, i didn't play since a moment

    i did this fast, i mb miss lot of points.
    Last edited by Ballzyboy; 12-17-2015 at 04:14 AM.

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple Ballzyboy's Avatar
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    About survival (moves, spells etc etc) : inq > pyro > mm > tempest > vulca

    About burst : vulca > pyro > inq > mm > tempest

    About sustain dps st : vulca > mm > inq > pyro > tempest

    About cc : mm > inq > pyro > tempest > vulca

    Can continu but i'm angry ^^ see you

    ( all in pvp ofc... i don't speak about raiding parses)
    Last edited by Ballzyboy; 12-17-2015 at 04:14 AM.

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    Rift Chaser DeLivia's Avatar
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    Before they nerf any ranged soul, I really hope they take a good look at melee and how it performs across all souls. Right now, ranged souls have too much CC and melee has too little.

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    Ascendant Gilgad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballzyboy View Post
    About survival (moves, spells etc etc) : inq > pyro > mm > tempest > vulca

    About burst : vulca > pyro > inq > mm > tempest

    About substain dps st : vulca > mm > inq > pyro > tempest

    About cc : mm > inq > pyro > tempest > vulca

    Can continu but i'm angry ^^ see you

    ( all in pvp ofc... i don't speak about raiding parses)
    Highest burst? Yes vulcanist, for 3 ticks.

    Highest sustained burst? Marksman, because it is literally endless burst, considering the normal hits do more damage then its "Burst" ability.

    Highest sustained? How is vulcanist the highest sustained? Are my 7k vorpal salvo's really going to sustain much along with my 10k skill shot every 10 seconds? Or is a Marksman, that literally goes - 17k > 12k > 6k > 12k > 19k > Repeat, with NO Cd's used, going to sustain more?

    CC and utility - Yes MM>Everything by far.


    Quote Originally Posted by DeLivia View Post
    Before they nerf any ranged soul, I really hope they take a good look at melee and how it performs across all souls. Right now, ranged souls have too much CC and melee has too little.
    The real idea of this thread is to reduce the amount of CC and utility MM has, it is ridiculous that a RANGED soul, has so much CC & Utility & Mobility & Damage.

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    Rift Disciple Ballzyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgad View Post
    Highest burst? Yes vulcanist, for 3 ticks.

    Highest sustained burst? Marksman, because it is literally endless burst, considering the normal hits do more damage then its "Burst" ability.

    Highest sustained? How is vulcanist the highest sustained? Are my 7k vorpal salvo's really going to sustain much along with my 10k skill shot every 10 seconds? Or is a Marksman, that literally goes - 17k > 12k > 6k > 12k > 19k > Repeat, with NO Cd's used, going to sustain more?

    CC and utility - Yes MM>Everything by far.




    The real idea of this thread is to reduce the amount of CC and utility MM has, it is ridiculous that a RANGED soul, has so much CC & Utility & Mobility & Damage.
    ok, i let you with your absolut thoughts, mm op, nerf plz

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    Ascendant Gilgad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballzyboy View Post
    ok, i let you with your absolut thoughts, mm op, nerf plz
    Good thing i screenshot a lot of things then.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple Ballzyboy's Avatar
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    A spec isn't only his dps and burst & cc, you need to see all over this. match up... maps.. mecanics etc
    i kill 100% of mm as pyro, is it mean pyro>mm? no ofc...

    Apo don't use mm because his dps isn't that godyy. (ok it's not the same in pvp and pve but just to tell)

    Mm was more more op on 1.x than 3.5.

    And wtf about vulca, it's is not only 7k vorpal salvo's...
    Last edited by Ballzyboy; 12-17-2015 at 05:48 AM.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Ballzyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLivia View Post
    Before they nerf any ranged soul, I really hope they take a good look at melee and how it performs across all souls. Right now, ranged souls have too much CC and melee has too little.
    Melee perform enough, the players and the meta-game are the probs
    Last edited by Ballzyboy; 12-17-2015 at 05:30 AM.

  12. #12
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    All ranged specs are out of control. Low cooldown, ogcd stuns/debils need to go period; no matter which spec they are in.

    The hardest part about keeping MM inline is it's damage model. It is purely sustained direct damage. No dots, no delayed damage, no travel time, no cds. It's "burst" is the fact that Sentry Battery and Deadeye Shot land at the same time because it's a cast into a channel. Being direct damage it is also very weak to cc/los. It is a very fine line between that sustain being worthless/pressure/overpowered.
    Last edited by Stihl; 12-17-2015 at 05:35 AM.
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    Rift Chaser ChamberDown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgad View Post
    Just curious as to why Marksman does so much damage, and has so much CC? Either nerf the damage, or nerf the CC. No soul should have so much mobile damage and have the most cc in a dps soul in the game, it is ridiculous. Primalists don't even have a debilitate or a stun in vulcanist, we have an interrupt and a root.

    For the love of god, why do marksmen need:

    AOE Knock back
    AOE Quad knock back that deals damage
    Double purge (Best purge in the game)
    Interrupt, that also silences
    Non-Cleansable 8 second root.
    50% Movement speed that shields and also removes movement imparing effects and makes you immune for 5 seconds.
    Leap back which also makes you immune to movement imparing effects for 5 seconds and also removes them.
    A full cleanse.
    AOE Armour debuff
    And most of all, when you attack something, you get faster.

    Seriously, either Nerf the damage, make it less mobile, or nerf the amount of utility this monster has, it is insane.

    Make it like vulcanist utility!

    A cleansable 5 second root.
    An interrupt.

    Marksman is literally the most anti-melee ranged build i've ever seen, it speeds up when it attacks you, it can root you and you can't do anything, silence you, knock you back repeatedly with multiple abilities, leap back, purge you, out dps you, like what the hell.
    Seems to me you aren't being very objective here.

    -Crossfire is a situational skill typicaly used to break up clusters, but often times gets you focus killed
    -Inquisitor has a double purge as well, and might I add you can spec into it with any pvp build you want by going 12 Inquisitor. With 6 in Necro, you pick up a single purge on a 5s CD. Warrior and Vulcanist suffer more in the purge department.
    -You can only be debilitated once every 45s (you get a debuff that prevents this after the initial). This is the only skill we have that rogues have to stop incoming damage in Marksman, and we're forced to burn our interupt to do it, or we can gamble and wait for you to blow a hard hitter like ethereal beam and take damage until then.
    -The root is 5 seconds. Pyros have the 8s one
    -On the double only removes "movement impairing effects" its not a break free
    -Retreat only makes you immune to movement effects while leaping back. it's definitely not a 5s duration leap back.
    -The full cleanse is on a 2m timer and is an ascended skill that all souls have access to. this is not a marksman problem.
    -The speed buff you refer to is 15%, and is quickly consumed by Calculated Shot to deal the burst that you seem to think is game breaking.

    Speaking of mobility, yes Marksman has some solid mobility, but it gets snared during its burst for 4s once every minute, and it has to stand still every 4 seconds for a 1.5 second cast to maximize it's finisher damage. The other souls have drawbacks for mobility as well, such as not casting bolt of retribution for inquisitors (almost full mobility then save some channels not during Radical) or using instant flame bolts or hard hitters like ethereal blast and fulminate for pyros, or using literally everything but charged pulse for warriors tempest, or viral stream for warriors with reaver, or holding ethereal beam/molten wave for vulcanist.

    It sounds like to me you are miffed that Vulcanist has little to no utility, and you are correct. But instead of attacking a soul that probably made you angry in a warfront recently, talk about each classes ranged soul utility, and then talk about Vulcanist's and ask that it be addressed. Because quite honestly, Inquisitors and Pyromancers are far more annoying to me than Marksman in PvP. Thats both from playing AS them, and playing WITH them perspective..
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  14. #14
    Rift Disciple Ballzyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChamberDown View Post
    Seems to me you aren't being very objective here.

    -Crossfire is a situational skill typicaly used to break up clusters, but often times gets you focus killed
    -Inquisitor has a double purge as well, and might I add you can spec into it with any pvp build you want by going 12 Inquisitor. With 6 in Necro, you pick up a single purge on a 5s CD. Warrior and Vulcanist suffer more in the purge department.
    -You can only be debilitated once every 45s (you get a debuff that prevents this after the initial). This is the only skill we have that rogues have to stop incoming damage in Marksman, and we're forced to burn our interupt to do it, or we can gamble and wait for you to blow a hard hitter like ethereal beam and take damage until then.
    -The root is 5 seconds. Pyros have the 8s one
    -On the double only removes "movement impairing effects" its not a break free
    -Retreat only makes you immune to movement effects while leaping back. it's definitely not a 5s duration leap back.
    -The full cleanse is on a 2m timer and is an ascended skill that all souls have access to. this is not a marksman problem.
    -The speed buff you refer to is 15%, and is quickly consumed by Calculated Shot to deal the burst that you seem to think is game breaking.

    Speaking of mobility, yes Marksman has some solid mobility, but it gets snared during its burst for 4s once every minute, and it has to stand still every 4 seconds for a 1.5 second cast to maximize it's finisher damage. The other souls have drawbacks for mobility as well, such as not casting bolt of retribution for inquisitors (almost full mobility then save some channels not during Radical) or using instant flame bolts or hard hitters like ethereal blast and fulminate for pyros, or using literally everything but charged pulse for warriors tempest, or viral stream for warriors with reaver, or holding ethereal beam/molten wave for vulcanist.

    It sounds like to me you are miffed that Vulcanist has little to no utility, and you are correct. But instead of attacking a soul that probably made you angry in a warfront recently, talk about each classes ranged soul utility, and then talk about Vulcanist's and ask that it be addressed. Because quite honestly, Inquisitors and Pyromancers are far more annoying to me than Marksman in PvP. Thats both from playing AS them, and playing WITH them perspective..
    98% agree with you

  15. #15
    General of Telara Sheo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stihl View Post
    All ranged specs are out of control. Low cooldown, ogcd stuns/debils need to go period; no matter which spec they are in.
    +1
    worst where 1-2 player tries to melee, but all the enemy team ranged and almost impossible to keep him/them up, because 3 pyro, 2 caba, 2 mm, 1 stormcaller, 2 inq all TAB targeting and choose the closest target and load all the burst / cc into this puny melee player. He may dies before he can reach enemy front line.

    ranged, middle aoe zerg fest the best bgs, right?
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