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Thread: Suggestion to Revitalize Conquest

  1. #16
    Telaran VenusFallen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marnos View Post


    I do not think these changes are necessary. I get that a sample of the pvp-oriented players dislike the gear normalization; however, pve-oriented players should not be penalized and/or discouraged from participating in conquest if it becomes a reasonable alternative to pve for gear progression. You want them to consider spending their off-raid gaming hours filling your teams, and you don't want them to be at a severe disadvantage (gear-wise).

    The suggestion to limit grouping before entering below a raid of 20 is a misnomer. It only seems like a plausible idea to mitigate team imbalance because the population is often very low - due to lack of incentive. When the team sizes are appropriate for the design, entering with a 20-player raid makes sense - and you should do it!

    The design of conquest in both stillmoor and steppes of infinity can and has worked - and it can work again with no changes to the design if proper incentive is implemented.

    ~Cheers

    Predict@Deepwood
    I should clarify, when I say separate gear, I mean to progressions. There is no magical stat in this game that gets added to PvP gear to make it only worthwhile in PvP, as such, PvE players are at no disadvantage for wearing their raid gear into PvP. What I suggest is separating the progressions, not making an inbalance between the two. I understand what I have suggested would go towards PvP gear progression, not PvE, but PvE geared folks would be at no disadvantage should they decide to CQ.

    Yes, currently limiting PM sizes to 5 man groups would help to solve some of the imbalance we see currently in CQ, and it would make the mode more solo que friendly, there by upping the population. I personally no longer CQ because I don't have a group of people to roll with. Solo queing, especially as a healer, is painful. If PM sizes were limited, I would feel personally that the teams would be more balanced, and therefore would que more myself.

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  2. #17
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marnos View Post
    I respectfully disagree. Conquest may not be your or other players' favorite activity in Rift, but I know many people who do enjoy it for the vision the developers intended: organizing raids and playing as a team in order to compete and conquer other teams of organized raids. I have also learned that players do not necessarily appreciate this until they have been a part of it. Which has lead to misunderstandings about the imbalances that occur on occasion in conquest.
    Translation: "Zerg-surfing is really fun for some people, yo."

    The problem with zerg content in a game like Rift is that it only works for people who are in the zerg. This isn't like Guild Wars 2, where independent actors or pick-up players can be self-sufficient. Rift has a (rough) trinity class system, which means that all players are EXTREMELY reliant on raid structure for their survival.

    Alright, well guess what -- a vast majority of people don't want to get into Hello Kitty's TS and listen to your inside jokes and your banter and your fart jokes and whatever else. They want to log in, do their own thing, and log out. The zerg content you love so much does not facilitate that, and never will, by virtue of Rift's core design. Tying rewards to content which has such niche appeal -- you people really are a TINY minority -- doesn't "revitalize" that content, because it was never "vitalized" in the first place. What it does revitalize is the resentment over being forced to do terrible content that nobody likes.

    Maybe try the content which requires "raid organizing and playing as a team" but isn't predicated on stepping on a ton of ants who are scrambling to pick up a few crumbs, or look for a game that's actually made for that kind of content.

    Quote Originally Posted by VenusFallen View Post
    I should clarify, when I say separate gear, I mean to progressions. There is no magical stat in this game that gets added to PvP gear to make it only worthwhile in PvP, as such, PvE players are at no disadvantage for wearing their raid gear into PvP. What I suggest is separating the progressions, not making an inbalance between the two. I understand what I have suggested would go towards PvP gear progression, not PvE, but PvE geared folks would be at no disadvantage should they decide to CQ.
    The devs made an explicit choice to essentially eliminate guaranteed rewards for PvPers' effort in this game, over the objections of just about everyone who said that RNG gear progression (for inferior gear, at that) was not something that was desirable. Despite complaints about this setup since the moment it hit the server during Alpha testing, there has been not a single indication that they're willing to reconsider that choice.

    So I wouldn't hold your breath. The system is literally designed to be an endless grindfest. It's only natural, because it's the only way they can get most people to set foot in PvP (not that I don't just love losing control of my character 50% of the time). That's what happens when you more or less completely neglect an entire aspect of your game for years and years: it falls into such an irreparable state that the only compelling attraction is the carrot and stick.

  3. #18
    Ascendant Rgizil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    Alright, well guess what -- a vast majority of people don't want to get into Hello Kitty's TS and listen to your inside jokes.....They want to log in, do their own thing, and log out.
    No one even requires TS/vent for CQ, it hasn't been a requirement or even really asked for since ABL/RoD days

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    What it does revitalize is the resentment over being forced to do terrible content that nobody likes.
    aaaayyyy Just call me a Fortune Teller.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    Maybe try the content which requires "raid organizing and playing as a team" but isn't predicated on stepping on a ton of ants who are scrambling to pick up a few crumbs, or look for a game that's actually made for that kind of content.
    I actually believe HK is raiding; I haven't been on much but I think we raid like once a week or something. Don't quote me on that though.



    Having fun is what matters.

    You find it fun doing unfinished, untested, glitched bosses and rehashed content.
    We find it fun running around aimlessly for 2 hours bantering in vent and running around in troll specs.

    Making blanket statements about how terrible content is simply because you don't enjoy it, is close minded and childish. I don't like RP, does that mean its terrible? Are dimensions terrible content because not everyone does them?

    I suggest you try to keep more than 1 eye open towards what other people enjoy.
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  4. #19
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rgizil View Post
    No one even requires TS/vent for CQ, it hasn't been a requirement or even really asked for since ABL/RoD days
    Except if there were actually competition and matches weren't all one-sided it probably would be. It's not even about voice chat, you missed the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rgizil View Post
    You find it fun doing unfinished, untested, glitched bosses and rehashed content.
    We find it fun running around aimlessly for 2 hours bantering in vent and running around in troll specs.

    Making blanket statements about how terrible content is simply because you don't enjoy it, is close minded and childish. I don't like RP, does that mean its terrible? Are dimensions terrible content because not everyone does them?
    I'm not sure if you're serious. When has RP ever had rewards attached to it? Dimensions?

    I don't really care what you waste your time on, have at it. But don't prop up content which people don't enjoy -- i.e., Conquest -- by adding rewards that everyone is going to want, including (or especially) people who don't do Conquest. Been there, done that: it was called Conquest Power, and it was the most-hated reward schemes in Rift's history. T1 hearts dropping was perhaps even worse (because it was RNG -- which is what Predict is proposing, essentially).

    It's essentially the inverse of forcing PvPers to raid/PvE for gear. It's stupid and unfair and nobody wants that, so why is it any better the other way around?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rgizil View Post
    I suggest you try to keep more than 1 eye open towards what other people enjoy.
    You might find it difficult convincing me to do that.
    Last edited by Ianto Jones; 11-02-2015 at 03:50 PM.

  5. #20
    Plane Walker Hectyr's Avatar
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    In response to the OP, I really don't think a change in incentive/rewards will affect the current state of Conquest in a positive way. I remember in 2013- before CQ rewarded the possibility of getting an RIC or similar reward- there were consistently hundreds of players in every match. The primary rewards being sought after were favor & prestige- neither of which are relevant in 2015.

    So, what do you do? If you provide a reward that is attractive to all players (ala "conquest power") you create the divided playerbase faction consisting of those who dislike the content yet feel compelled to engage in it simply to maximize their gear potential for raiding, warfront performance. etc. Aren't there already enough activities that emphasize the "I don't like this activity, yet will do it to get the reward" concept that we hear far too often?

    Considering that the playerbase majority voted to dismiss Conquest Power in the past, I don't think replacing it with any similar reward will do more than repeat the previous scenario.

    Three of the first four contributors to this thread are/were Hello Kitty CQ leaders at some time or another, so I suggest you change the CQ climate yourselves to create an attractive playground for others to enjoy. Generate a pattern of ensuring equal size/power premades participate- resulting in more competitive matches- and as word spreads more players will enter the fray.

    "Competitive" equals "fun" according to many- and heaven knows Rift needs more fun.

  6. #21
    Champion of Telara McChaffe's Avatar
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    Dailies actually provide both a good way to break up Zerging a bit and allow the content to provide good rewards.

    (By spreading out dailies across various objectives in Stillmoor, zergs would be less effective if players were spread out to do dailies.)

    I could go into further detail, but would prefer not to do so for having done it in the past.
    Everything after Storm Legion was a mistake. ()

  7. #22
    Plane Walker Shanoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marnos View Post
    I, along with other players, do enjoy the game-play in conquest matches. Other areas of the game already have the cool rewards, we are just asking that conquest provide the same quality of reward for participation.



    I do not think these changes are necessary. I get that a sample of the pvp-oriented players dislike the gear normalization; however, pve-oriented players should not be penalized and/or discouraged from participating in conquest if it becomes a reasonable alternative to pve for gear progression. You want them to consider spending their off-raid gaming hours filling your teams, and you don't want them to be at a severe disadvantage (gear-wise).

    The suggestion to limit grouping before entering below a raid of 20 is a misnomer. It only seems like a plausible idea to mitigate team imbalance because the population is often very low - due to lack of incentive. When the team sizes are appropriate for the design, entering with a 20-player raid makes sense - and you should do it!

    The design of conquest in both stillmoor and steppes of infinity can and has worked - and it can work again with no changes to the design if proper incentive is implemented.

    ~Cheers

    Predict@Deepwood
    Quote Originally Posted by littlepoit View Post
    I'm fine with with CQ awarding marauder supply caches instead of frozen hearts.

    We are not preventing any of you CQ lovers from playing it and enjoying that content, just don't force others (CQ haters ?) that are not interested in that content to play it.

    As for the lack of population, maybe it's time to start forming smaller PM's to distribute population more evenly. 20 man worked while the CQ power abomination (aka forcing content down your throat) was active... Forget about it it's not coming back, it was unpopular and its removal was largely supported by the Rift population.

    Ultimately less population means smaller groups and less lag.... who knows, skill may start being a factor at some point and CQ might become relevant.
    You're so right, except that you seem to not realize that the people who have enjoyed Rift PvP for what it was have been forced to either PvE or leave the game to get any kind of cool rewards. But apparently it's ok to force the Pvp'ers into content that you personally enjoy.

    It makes no sense that you think less population would lead to better skill in conquest. The players who generally pug in these days have absolutely no clue what to do in pvp in general, and even more so in conquest. There has been a dramatic decrease in skill and pvp awareness.

    One example in the last conquest match...is that the nightfall pugs seemed to have no idea where TH was on the map.... even though it is the extractor just outside their base. There were no calls being made by anyone, and a headless random tiny zerg moved around the map in a completely predictable point to point manner.

    I also still don't understand why you feel compelled to complain about content that you profess to hate, and no longer have what you call a legitimate reason to participate in. You won't find Predict over on the Raiding forum complaining about being forced to participate in Raids to get gear...even though that's where the best gear is these days. He CHOOSES NOT TO PARTICIPATE and wishes those who do all the best in enjoying that content.

    Offer something constructive to the discussion and maybe it would end up being a better product for everyone to enjoy. Predict and several others have made some well thought out, constructive suggestions. There is some irony in that even the PvP'ers never appreciated having Pve'rs *forced* to participate, but there has never been a way to prevent them from joining in. Unlike in Pve where players can be vote kicked or left on the sidelines entirely from participating in Raids.
    Last edited by Shanoah; 11-02-2015 at 08:36 PM.
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  8. #23
    General of Telara littlepoit's Avatar
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    you will never see me create a topic about conquest. but when somebody hints at bringing back CQ power or worse that would force me to participate into a content i don't enjoy, i will express my opinion. and yes because it's an opinion it will be oriented or biased.

    You may not agree with it and that's perfectly fine.
    as to bringing something to the table i believe i already suggested a few ideas in the past all towards preventing mindless zerging.

    I'm really just a tiny voice in the vast world of CQ haters. they may not be vocal here but the current state of CQ i think speaks for itself. I don't really believe CQ lovers made a lot of suggestions regarding CQ revamp, they tend to defend the current structure of CQ especially when it comes to zerging (IE 20 man PM)

    Oh and i don't PvE .... at all. i don't even have the notoriety to purchase those precious runes. instant adventure or mob bashing is probably the most boring experience of Rift.
    Last edited by littlepoit; 11-02-2015 at 09:11 PM.

  9. #24
    Champion Marnos's Avatar
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    Default Incentive

    I do not want CQ Power to come back. There are plenty of nice rewards in the game right now, you just find it all dropping from the pve-raiding content. I do not care if it is rng or currency based. All that matters is that the incentive is present. I do not know all of the currency and upgrade items that are most sought after right now because I never see them, I do not care for pve raiding in Rift. What is the argument against giving conquest participants a chance to obtain raid rewards from it?

    ~Cheers

    Predict@Deepwood

  10. #25
    Soulwalker
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    That isn't what's keeping me away from CQ. Performance issues are horrible on my computer when too many people start fighting at once. 1 fps isn't fun

  11. #26
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    The new vendor gear currency will come with tomorrow's patch. That currency will be attached to all of the weekly quests. As much as I detest CQ & all other forms of PvP, I'll be there participating to the fullest of my admittedly limited abilities so as to max out those marks every week until I have no further need of them. I bet many other like me will do the same. So your population of potatoes to mash will increase, because the most efficient method to cap those marks remains in PvP.

  12. #27
    Ascendant butkus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hectyr View Post
    In response to the OP, I really don't think a change in incentive/rewards will affect the current state of Conquest in a positive way. I remember in 2013- before CQ rewarded the possibility of getting an RIC or similar reward- there were consistently hundreds of players in every match. The primary rewards being sought after were favor & prestige- neither of which are relevant in 2015.

    So, what do you do? If you provide a reward that is attractive to all players (ala "conquest power") you create the divided playerbase faction consisting of those who dislike the content yet feel compelled to engage in it simply to maximize their gear potential for raiding, warfront performance. etc. Aren't there already enough activities that emphasize the "I don't like this activity, yet will do it to get the reward" concept that we hear far too often?

    Considering that the playerbase majority voted to dismiss Conquest Power in the past, I don't think replacing it with any similar reward will do more than repeat the previous scenario.

    Three of the first four contributors to this thread are/were Hello Kitty CQ leaders at some time or another, so I suggest you change the CQ climate yourselves to create an attractive playground for others to enjoy. Generate a pattern of ensuring equal size/power premades participate- resulting in more competitive matches- and as word spreads more players will enter the fray.

    "Competitive" equals "fun" according to many- and heaven knows Rift needs more fun.
    bis pvp lessors
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  13. #28
    Ascendant butkus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uviktig View Post
    The new vendor gear currency will come with tomorrow's patch. That currency will be attached to all of the weekly quests. As much as I detest CQ & all other forms of PvP, I'll be there participating to the fullest of my admittedly limited abilities so as to max out those marks every week until I have no further need of them. I bet many other like me will do the same. So your population of potatoes to mash will increase, because the most efficient method to cap those marks remains in PvP.

    a new set of raid gear only makes current "pvp gear" even more half ***'ed.i have not seen a new upgrade path for pvp gear,yet. a raid weapon in the store takes about 5 months for a non raiding player to earn. i know i know go raid for your raid gear then right?i use to say the same thing back in sl,go pvp for your pvp gear.....
    I did not invent Warladin I perfected it!
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  14. #29
    Shadowlander Satansimple's Avatar
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    All I can say is, separate PVE and PVP (the way it should be) and give us pvp'ers some incentive we can all try and enjoy. And quit forcing each other to do content that we dont want to.

  15. #30
    Rift Master Nantucket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rgizil View Post
    I don't like RP, does that mean its terrible?

    You are once again my sworn enemy!
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