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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Conquest and Premade Group Testing

  1. #91
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umfufu View Post
    I too am curious how many of these "True PVPers" that constantly defended a kind of not really working as intended system, will come play CQ, now their win is not so secure/safe anymore, and actually DO have to PVP for their wins.

    I would have thought those who really babbled here on the forums about how they love PVP, and their desire to PVP, would welcome this change.

    It may not be perfect at the start, but I am sure Trion will make adjustments down the road as the real obstacles start to show.

    I for one, welcome this change and only wished they did this like a year ago.
    what makes you think us premade players don't also play as pugs already?
    we know what its like to be a pug, because we pug too.
    we know what it'll be like without premades, because we play in CQ matches without premades.

    we aren't predicting the future as describing what happens now.
    the only difference is that instead of some matches lasting four hours with pugs farming turrets, it will be all matches, all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artak View Post
    I'm sure there will be less complaining but only because they only do CQ for the marks and not for the pvp and this will make it even more PvE based than it already is. I mean heaven forbid people have to do pvp for pvp quests and maybe die in the process.
    I almost posted a reply to this about 5 times but didnt wanna be rude. I just cant take it anymore.

    CQ = PVE There is little to no pvp to be found in this game mode in its current state. Go kill x extractor and then go kill y extractor is NOT pvp, this is called PVExtractor. I have no problem with pms or fighting against them, I just dont think the pm players realize what "they" (the groups, not the individuals) are doing to this game mode. I think very highly of the leaders I have played with in this mode, the pressure they have to perform is high and they always seem to handle it admirably. The vast majority of the time it is in the best interest of the team to avoid pvp and that is a huge problem in what is supposed to be a pvp event.

    This is however not the case when there are no leaders or pms. When this odd situation arises there is medium to large scale pvp going on all over the map. This odd situation also leads to very long games and is not idea either but at the very least there is pvp involved.

    PVP = FUN I would glady que up for cq every single time it was available if it had fun in it,(aka, pvp) but currently it has very little pvp involved and for me that means joining at timer. I have enough lame dailies and weeklies that keep me from pvp to spend time in PVExtractor.

    I am not for breaking up the fun some people report to be having, I just dont see how killing a few extractors with 0 relevant competition is fun.

    I wonder what would happen if there was a actual que for cq. A system that would populate the 3 factions evenly before populating the map. A system that would then give 3 mins time to decide who is to lead and what role all present will play before allowing those present on the map to leave base. This system would also then seek to add new players in 5 man groups ONLY when all three sides would receive the same number of players. Place a timer on how late into a match that someone may be allowed to enter. Finally encourage pvp engagements more in this game mode.
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  3. #93
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheo View Post
    I don't consider fun farming extractors.
    Manugo seemed pretty popular....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Conquest and Raiding are apples and oranges. There isn't a competition between them.
    But you can compare apples and oranges:

    They are both round.
    They both have seeds.
    They are both fruits
    They both have vitamin C
    They both are used as ingredients.

    The same can be said for CQ and raids.

    They both put the first M in MMORPG
    They both require specific specs
    They both require team work
    They both require players to follow instructions

    They are different because raiders are allowed to kick players that choose to not follow instructions, play the correct specs, or even don't play at the correct time. Yet you developers continue to make it so the PvPers do not have the luxury to control the environment like raiders can.

    I agree that this is not a competition between raiding and CQ, and I agree that CQ is broken and needs fixed.

    Where we disagree is the fact that PvPers NEED equal and consistent treatment (very limited PvP progression, only one CQ map compared to 3 T1 raids and 1 T2 raid, gear from NTE's and raids are far superior than any gear that can be obtained via PvP. I can give you more examples if you would like.)

    It is also extremely frustrating for you and all of the other rift developers to cater to making raiding easier (making all of the t1 raids easier and allowing people who raid to gear up faster), while making it harder to PvP as a group.

    Overall the most frustrating part is the God complex of the rift developers regarding PvP. Instead of listening to all of the ideas from the current CQ players and leaders to fix CQ you and the other rift developers made the choice to completely ignore them. Not even a courtesy response such as "This is a good idea we will file it (in the round filing cabinet)".

    Below are some of the examples:

    http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...-conquest.html DrKirb's recent idea

    Kronos's idea

    alternatively, we could try something that encourages more premades, such as improved rewards.
    how about getting a number of rolls on the chest (if you win) or bonus currency/gear based on how large a group you queued in with.

    solo (pugs) one roll.
    2-5 (one party) two rolls or one roll + additional voidstones or marauder gear
    6-10 (two parties) three rolls or one roll + additional abyssal crusaders marks or dreambreaker/NTE gear
    11-15 (three parties) four rolls or one roll + frags of horror or T1 raid gear
    16-20 (raid) five rolls or one roll + frags of madness or T2 raid gear

    One of my ideas

    Bring back CQ power
    Allow crafters to gather some mats around the extractors that can be taken out side of CQ
    Increase loot from chest. (Right now there is no reason to loot the chest. The only thing you need a heart for are the T1 weapons, which gets down graded in PvP.
    If you win CQ have a random selection of items spawn in your CQ bag. (such as FoH, FoM, abys marks, decent essences). This will allow the winners to get something for CQ even if they can't loot the chest.

    Mckftw's idea

    Bring back CQ dailies or something that actually rewards participating during matches.

    KatFiveknives's idea


    What I suggest is that the teams are temporarily held, much like in a war front, until all 3 teams are approximately equal in size prior to releasing players into the map. A premade team will still have the upper hand (most likely) due to superior organization but at least the pugs stand a chance and can possibly work towards their weekly kills quest.

    Detpak's idea

    I think we all know that the weekly kills quest is destroying PVP. It's what makes people join and immediately start acting fruity. It would be like all of us got really trolly and suddenly had an outside agenda (oh wait...never-mind). That's what it's like to play with a large number of people who put their own quest ahead of what is best for the group and start chasing everything that moves.

    A new reward alternative to the carnage quest is the only way forward, I'm 100% convinced of this.

    Linolea's idea

    If server pop is low - max 5-man pre-made
    If server pop is medium - max 10-man pre-made
    If server pop is high - max 20-man pre-made

    Or something along those lines. This might help prevent the massive blowouts in the off-hours (i.e. Aussie prime time).

    The pre-made CQ cap could show in the CQ window 10-15 mins before the match to prevent confusion.

    Another one of my ideas

    A thought just popped into my head. What if they remove the kill limit and the 65 percent that starts timer. Instead after a random amount of time, between 20 minutes and 45 minutes the 5 minute timer starts. Once the 5 minute timer starts no one can join CQ.

    This will accomplish a few things.

    1. Shorten CQ. No more 3 hour ring around the extractors when no premades form.

    2. No more late night premades that push timer in 3 minutes.

    3. No more people joining at timer so of they want to have a chance of a win they will have to be in CQ before timer starts.

    These are just a few ideas from only 2 threads I can provide more if you want.

    Wouldn't it make good business sense to engage the main CQ population before making a major change that only helps the vocal minority?
    #endthedoublestandards

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaber View Post
    The people that don't want it are on the PM side that benefit having mass big groups, we don't know if majority cq players don't want it or do wait it, there a lot more people out there then just PM groups.
    I can show you a list of players that want to keep 20 man premades. This list was complied in game not on forums. Can you show me a list of players that want to get rid of 20 man premades?
    #endthedoublestandards

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asenturius View Post
    That is inded the main problem,i wager the majority of people who enter wf's or cq certainly don't do it for the fun of it but to earn their raid marks,the whole "bring people into all aspects of the game" philosophy is at fault,as someone allready mentioned before in this thread,if the weekliy CQ quests were removed for a month noone would step foot in there at all.

    This change will hopefully alliviete the pain for those who,for whichever reason,couldn't join the premades and were getting tired of being perma-roflstomped.

    back in sl myself and people i ran with did wfs/cq just for the fun of it,even after hitting the marks caps.then we head over and do some open world pvp daily's more or less just looking for some fights/kills.now i try to do the weekly's on my main then log off until reset.i level my alt threw wfs and think low level pvp is in a better spot then max level.gear is less of an issue in low level,if you need something craft it or go to the ah.then bang you pretty much have bis gear.max level your always behind gear wise/time wise if you dont pve.

    "This change will hopefully alliviete the pain for those who,for whichever reason,couldn't join the premades and were getting tired of being perma-roflstomped."

    know why that is?becasue most of the cq leaders/pvpers left game when the x-pac started.sl you had a few pms going at it all the time,now you see less and less,so its pm or go home.
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  7. #97
    Prophet of Telara Zaber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hailolyergory View Post
    I can show you a list of players that want to keep 20 man premades. This list was complied in game not on forums. Can you show me a list of players that want to get rid of 20 man premades?
    You say majority of the CQ players that don't want it, I am sure you have a list too? where's that list?
    Last edited by Zaber; 06-30-2015 at 02:14 PM.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kat Head View Post
    I almost posted a reply to this about 5 times but didnt wanna be rude. I just cant take it anymore.

    CQ = PVE There is little to no pvp to be found in this game mode in its current state. Go kill x extractor and then go kill y extractor is NOT pvp, this is called PVExtractor. I have no problem with pms or fighting against them, I just dont think the pm players realize what "they" (the groups, not the individuals) are doing to this game mode. I think very highly of the leaders I have played with in this mode, the pressure they have to perform is high and they always seem to handle it admirably. The vast majority of the time it is in the best interest of the team to avoid pvp and that is a huge problem in what is supposed to be a pvp event.

    This is however not the case when there are no leaders or pms. When this odd situation arises there is medium to large scale pvp going on all over the map. This odd situation also leads to very long games and is not idea either but at the very least there is pvp involved.

    PVP = FUN I would glady que up for cq every single time it was available if it had fun in it,(aka, pvp) but currently it has very little pvp involved and for me that means joining at timer. I have enough lame dailies and weeklies that keep me from pvp to spend time in PVExtractor.

    I am not for breaking up the fun some people report to be having, I just dont see how killing a few extractors with 0 relevant competition is fun.

    I wonder what would happen if there was a actual que for cq. A system that would populate the 3 factions evenly before populating the map. A system that would then give 3 mins time to decide who is to lead and what role all present will play before allowing those present on the map to leave base. This system would also then seek to add new players in 5 man groups ONLY when all three sides would receive the same number of players. Place a timer on how late into a match that someone may be allowed to enter. Finally encourage pvp engagements more in this game mode.
    Great ideas abound in these forums for creative improvements to make CQ a better place. I hope the devs read and take to heart the calls for a different approach.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kat Head View Post
    I almost posted a reply to this about 5 times but didnt wanna be rude. I just cant take it anymore.

    CQ = PVE There is little to no pvp to be found in this game mode in its current state. Go kill x extractor and then go kill y extractor is NOT pvp, this is called PVExtractor. I have no problem with pms or fighting against them, I just dont think the pm players realize what "they" (the groups, not the individuals) are doing to this game mode. I think very highly of the leaders I have played with in this mode, the pressure they have to perform is high and they always seem to handle it admirably. The vast majority of the time it is in the best interest of the team to avoid pvp and that is a huge problem in what is supposed to be a pvp event.

    This is however not the case when there are no leaders or pms. When this odd situation arises there is medium to large scale pvp going on all over the map. This odd situation also leads to very long games and is not idea either but at the very least there is pvp involved.
    In the past couple weeks I'd concede CQ is very PvE based but as a whole since it was reenabled after NT much less so. The vast majority of PMs with a halfway decent lead do not avoid pvp at all(with some obvious exceptions like at timer or when one faction is close to pushing timer or if there aren't enough people to fight against).

    Furthermore to your assertion that leaderless factions results in medium to large scale pvp and longer CQ matches I have one thing to say....bullstuff. If medium to large scale pvp is indeed taking place then a CQ will not last the 3-5 hours some leaderless CQs actually last because if actual pvp is happening as you claim then the kills required for timer would not last that long.

    And finally on MANY MANY MANY occasions particularly when there are multiple PMs I have seen two factions slugging it out at an extractor with red kill circles all over the map and the extractor showing 20 players of each of those two factions as being present on the map and what does the 3rd usually leaderless faction do? do they sandwich or even just charge right in the middle? nope, they IGNORE IT AND KILL EXTRACTORS. They do not wish for pvp at all and will choose PvE given the chance.
    Last edited by Artak; 06-30-2015 at 02:18 PM.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaber View Post
    You say majority of the CQ players that don't want it, I am sure you have a list too?
    Just like I said in my reply to you I do.

    You can find it http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...removal-3.html post number 40.
    #endthedoublestandards

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by palemoons View Post
    last time i checked, seastone still had low pop during primetime... or are you counting the people from other shards who quietly farm mats on seastone as seastoners too?
    Most of the time I check half or more of the shards are listed as low pop, occasionally derpwood is low pop. Does that mean all shards are closing soon ?
    Open World PVP !
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  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hailolyergory View Post
    Just like I said in my reply to you I do.

    You can find it http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...removal-3.html post number 40.
    And that not majority of the CQ players? still looking for that list. that majority if it was, then CQ would never happen it would of been dead. The list showed me show me people show me a a small % that do cq, Thank you.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artak View Post
    And finally on MANY MANY MANY occasions particularly when there are multiple PMs I have seen two factions slugging it out at an extractor with red kill circles all over the map and the extractor showing 20 players of each of those two factions as being present on the map and what does the 3rd usually leaderless faction do? do they sandwich or even just charge right in the middle? nope, they IGNORE IT AND KILL EXTRACTORS. They do not wish for pvp at all and will choose PvE given the chance.
    The most fun to be had in this game is when there are multiple PMs which are not stacked. Since leaving HK, I know exactly what it feels like to join a leaderless group. It's painful to say the least when people randomly follow others around from extractor to extractor.

    If the Devs actually work on a new queue system, we could avoid what might be a painful mistake.
    Last edited by detpack; 06-30-2015 at 02:33 PM.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaber View Post
    And that not majority of the CQ players? still looking for that list. that majority if it was, then CQ would never happen it would of been dead. The list showed me show me people show me a a small % that do cq, Thank you.
    Considering most CQS have less that 100 players per CQ a list of almost 250 players is pretty good.

    But I am in a good mood so I will humor you and make a deal. You get me a list of 200+ level 65 players (note I said players not characters) and then I will take the time to add to my list. Until you can provide me with a list close in numbers that want this change I will continue to claim that the majority of CQ players want 20 man premades.
    #endthedoublestandards

  15. #105
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    With them limiting cq to 5 mans it opens up a small enough gap for them to release some new pvp content or allow people to do more content. It is easier for me to get my weekly done with cq stillmoor and IG out of the picture. Takes 1 - 2 weeks vs. 1 month. I didn't even bother to do cq kills back when IG was in rotation. Hopefully they find some new content to give pvpers now that it is somewhat less time consuming to do cq. Even if I get a bad team and cq ends in 10mins. I can make about 50 kills+ on extractors where as with IG I just didn't even bother at all to queue in. I don't see a problem with queue in at timer as well since the biggest problem was post mades queue in at timer and get the win. Now if a faction is winning game it is more likely they will win
    Last edited by Planetx; 06-30-2015 at 02:41 PM.

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