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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Conquest and Premade Group Testing

  1. #166
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Dee View Post
    Raiding guilds do not have conquest on their calendar, and never had. Raids: 2, 3, 4, 5 or 8 nights per week, farm farm, farm, or progress, progress, progress.
    If they do the weekly they are on their own, if one or more guildie joins along: there is your epic battle.
    yes, I made that point elsewhere earlier.

    its easier for raiders to pug queue at timer whenever they aren't doing something else and get a free heart for no effort once a month or so than it is for them to participate. as the apologetic ducks showed us, despite their claim of wanting challenging content, raiders are more than willing to take the easy path for their rewards but still cry fowl should any lowly pvper ever suggest getting anything even remotely comparable for actually participating in content.

    the irony is, despite Trions stated desire that they want more players to participate in more content, pvp remains the one area where you are actually rewarded for not participating, almost to the point of it being encouraged.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  2. #167
    Champion of Telara McChaffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    yes, I made that point elsewhere earlier.

    its easier for raiders to pug queue at timer whenever they aren't doing something else and get a free heart for no effort once a month or so than it is for them to participate. as the apologetic ducks showed us, despite their claim of wanting challenging content, raiders are more than willing to take the easy path for their rewards but still cry fowl should any lowly pvper ever suggest getting anything even remotely comparable for actually participating in content.

    the irony is, despite Trions stated desire that they want more players to participate in more content, pvp remains the one area where you are actually rewarded for not participating, almost to the point of it being encouraged.
    Pretty much this post. Improved PvP progression and rewards tied to participation would fix this and revive CQ.


    Keep winning rewards, but don't have them be the prime factor in a player's currency income.
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  3. #168
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    another observation on the "new meta" of CQ brought on by these changes...

    new leaders, pug leaders, and even some pre-existing leaders struggle to herd the cats on their team. players in general lack the discipline required for a zerg to function as a well oiled machine.
    the result as players scatter all over the map and very little actual pvp as zergs are barely capable of even maintaining a circle derp of extractor farming.

    on the other hand, well known and highly respected premade leaders continue to be able to draw their team in and easily out perform the other teams - even those with experienced but less respected leads. they just lack the solid core that the premade provided them beforehand.
    victory will continue to go to whichever faction has Rgi (or one of the very small number of highly respected leads), while the other factions will be fodder - scattered, afk, and continuously haemorrhaging players.

    in the matches with an absence of any experienced leads, 4 hour long circle derps of extractor farming is now the norm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  4. #169
    General of Telara Sheo's Avatar
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    I logged in yesterday finally and did 2 cq.
    Both was awful, I didn't stay all the time.
    First peak time: running around eye in circles, sometimes they listen (but maybe I just told where they wish to go ) I left for a 2 bgs, return, still 7-800 kills left, leave again for 1 bg, come back. This cq lasted maybe 2-3 hours, when oath was able to push timer finally. (still ~500 kills left) They win, our team left, no fight in the eye, I managed maybe 2-300 kills whole cq. Including extractors.
    Second: late night: same as previous except I couldn't stay until the end, as running in circle makes me sleepy, so I left after an hour and went to sleep.

    I tried to herd them, others tried to herd them, we ended in split and wipe a lot of time. Just a few look on map at all. We don't stop (yeah I can try to solo a raid lol) even when enemy raid behind us. We don't go back if that extractor not on the "chain". What pugs raid doing: running in a particular circle around eye and nothing can bothers or distract them only wipe.

    This is cq without premades.
    Sheona/Faynee <VANEN> , <Apotheosys>

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    you have completely and utterly failed to understand or accept that CQ is 100% entirely intended to be large scale zerg on zerg pvp. that grouping players into raids, and for multiple raids working together, is the expected mode of CQ.

    if you want small scale pvp, there is warfronts. you don't need to take up a raid slot in CQ to have that kind of pvp.
    Its design and intent failed. Conquest Power kept Conquest busy during SL, but Conquest did not long survive NT. You can blame the exodus of many PvP players for that if you wish, but you should also recognize that whack-an-extractor while avoiding other zergs is hardly fun, and the occaisional good zerg-fest in the middle hardly makes up for the great deal of tedium in between.

    You could tell me that I just need to join a PM, and I would tell you to take a hike. The great majority of the players in Rift appear to be they type (like myself) that do not wish to join 19 other people just to have a chance at success in any given activity. Trion has to choose between catering to the vocal and orgnized minority (PMs) or the quiet and disorganized majority (solo players) when it comes to Conquest.

    Regardless of the debate in these forums, the final choice will be determined by how many solo players come back to Conquest now that the domineering premades have been hobbled.

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Greetings all,

    A while back we proposed running a test, disabling the ability to join Conquest in groups larger than 5.

    Here is a synopsis of that original idea:



    This turned out to be more complicated than we had anticipated; however the work has now been completed and, starting with the next update (tentatively scheduled for July 1 for NA and July 2 for EU), we’ll be limiting the max size a group can queue for conquest to 5. Once this change goes live, we'll evaluate both your feedback on the forums and hard game data on how this plays out. We will then follow up with you all on the topic.

    We look forward to seeing how this test turns out! Look for more about this action within the next couple of weeks.
    Premades still stacking onto same sides. Don't know if they are using exploit or they have good RNG to land on same team. It was during off hours.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by McChaffe View Post
    Because a large majority of players would have either finished their weeklies thanks to good leads or that a large number of players still deem them to be far to time consuming to complete. The amount of time it can take to get the kill weekly done as a pug is horrendous.

    These three hours matches wouldn't be a major problem is people actually had things they could get done during them. But all form of rewards are either tied towards winning CQ, which can be done by joining timer and not participating or getting kills. The latter of which is extremely hard to do when your team quits after the first wipe.

    CQ needs dailies to provide a form of reward that doesn't involve getting kills or winning, but involves helping your team by doing objectives. I'd gladly pug into CQs to get dailies done when I don't want to lead.

    Placing most of the rewards on winning rather that participation is hurting CQ. There should be rewards for participating+the extra bonus of winning and looting the chest.
    If Trion is well managed, it will appreciate good player feedback and implement good ideas such as your own. Quests provide structure and guidance to players not really knowledgeable or invested in the content. It provides avenues for them to experience content in different ways as they seek to gain rewards. And it provides alternative ways for players to enjoy content that they have done many times before and are starting to get bored with.

    Sadly, Trion has not demonstrated a tendency to implement good ideas presented in the forums. I do hope to see that change.

    In addition to your suggestions, I propose:

    Conquest Marks: Conquest marks are distributed to the players every 5 minutes based on how many extractors their faction holds - 1 for each uncontested extractor, 0 for contested extrators. These marks accumulate and can be turned in for rewards the way Marks of Notoriety (from doing ZEs) and Commendations of Renown (from IAs and featured IAs). The rewards would be similar to the XP and plat awarded when turning in Marks of Notoriety/Commendations of Renowm.

    Conquest Power: Bring back Conquest Power, but instead of awarding boosts that PvPer and Raiders will feel they absolutely must have, award QoL buffs:

    - buff 1: lowers the players AH deposits by 2/4/6%
    - buff 2: lowers the amount of time it takes to craft an item by 5/10/15%
    - buff 3: lowers the amount of time it takes to harvest a resource (ore/plant/hide/etc) by 5/10/15%
    - buff 4: lowers the cooldown on portal teleports (abilities and trinkets/generators) by 3/6/10%

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by McChaffe View Post
    Because a large majority of players would have either finished their weeklies thanks to good leads or that a large number of players still deem them to be far to time consuming to complete. The amount of time it can take to get the kill weekly done as a pug is horrendous.

    These three hours matches wouldn't be a major problem is people actually had things they could get done during them. But all form of rewards are either tied towards winning CQ, which can be done by joining timer and not participating or getting kills. The latter of which is extremely hard to do when your team quits after the first wipe.

    CQ needs dailies to provide a form of reward that doesn't involve getting kills or winning, but involves helping your team by doing objectives. I'd gladly pug into CQs to get dailies done when I don't want to lead.

    Placing most of the rewards on winning rather that participation is hurting CQ. There should be rewards for participating+the extra bonus of winning and looting the chest.
    If Trion is well managed, it will appreciate good player feedback and implement good ideas such as your own. Quests provide structure and guidance to players not really knowledgeable or invested in the content. It provides avenues for them to experience content in different ways as they seek to gain rewards. And it provides alternative ways for players to enjoy content that they have done many times before and are starting to get bored with.

    Sadly, Trion has not demonstrated a tendency to implement good ideas presented in the forums. I do hope to see that change.

    In addition to your suggestions, I propose:

    Conquest Marks: Conquest marks are distributed to the players every 5 minutes based on how many extractors their faction holds - 1 for each uncontested extractor, 0 for contested extrators. These marks accumulate and can be turned in for rewards the way Marks of Notoriety (from doing ZEs) and Commendations of Renown (from IAs and featured IAs). The rewards would be similar to the XP and plat awarded when turning in Marks of Notoriety/Commendations of Renowm.

    Conquest Power: Bring back Conquest Power, but instead of awarding boosts that PvPer and Raiders will feel they absolutely must have, award QoL buffs:

    - buff 1: lowers the players AH deposits by 2/4/6%
    - buff 2: lowers the amount of time it takes to craft an item by 5/10/15%
    - buff 3: lowers the amount of time it takes to harvest a resource (ore/plant/hide/etc) by 5/10/15%
    - buff 4: lowers the cooldown on portal teleports (abilities and trinkets/generators) by 3/6/10%

    Edit: Just did my first CQ since the change (as well as the first time in months) during 8:00 Am or so EST. The population was low, with less than 10 players per team, but we went for extractors and encountered some PvP along the way. The match likely lasted less than 20 minutes. Won a few battles, died a couple of times, got crushed by Hikos (or was it Snugglepuss), and eventually we managed to get the win.

    Verdict: CQ is significanty better for the pugs during the slow times.

  9. #174
    Prophet of Telara Zaber's Avatar
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    Did cq last night, and I got to lead one of them as we had no leader people stay even we was the under dog as other 2 team was not so over power people stayed and got in with a tie and didn't take 2 to 3 hours some people that say.

    It rare to see people stay when your under dog of cq after the first day even with me leading was not so great, as people didn't feel that they didn't had a chance as there was no big group out there feeling that they can't do it, or feel like that one the teams going get 20 more like in stacking that we had in the old system.
    Last edited by Zaber; 07-03-2015 at 05:50 AM.

  10. #175
    Plane Walker Shanoah's Avatar
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    Default sorry....lengthy post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nefelia View Post
    Its design and intent failed. Conquest Power kept Conquest busy during SL, but Conquest did not long survive NT. You can blame the exodus of many PvP players for that if you wish, but you should also recognize that whack-an-extractor while avoiding other zergs is hardly fun, and the occaisional good zerg-fest in the middle hardly makes up for the great deal of tedium in between.

    You could tell me that I just need to join a PM, and I would tell you to take a hike. The great majority of the players in Rift appear to be they type (like myself) that do not wish to join 19 other people just to have a chance at success in any given activity. Trion has to choose between catering to the vocal and orgnized minority (PMs) or the quiet and disorganized majority (solo players) when it comes to Conquest.

    Regardless of the debate in these forums, the final choice will be determined by how many solo players come back to Conquest now that the domineering premades have been hobbled.
    You really feel the "quiet and disorganized majority" prefer not to have a more organized cqnquest experience? I disagree wholeheartedly with you.

    I remember my first few conquests, loading in and running around like a deer in headlights. Being run over by random zergs, wandering around aimlessly while trying to figure out the map and the objectives. It was a very welcome revelation to discover that there was a group of people who did understand the map and the objectives, and were willing to help the lost sheep wandering around. I was encouraged to learn new and more useful raid specs, I enjoyed running with a variety of different leaders and groups (RoD, ABL), and I enjoyed the sense of camaraderie that came with working together.

    I was happy that you could join in with a large group of people who were ready to work together on the cq pvp objectives.... most of the time looking for good fights, but thankful that there were other ways to participate depending on the circumstances (low cq population, logging in too late to join a pm, not in the mood for the zerg..whatever the situation was). The fact that we could form before the match started allowed time for the raid to be a little more casual, and actually sit around talking for a few minutes (or listening, as some people prefer). You could actually get to know people a bit, and I have made some great friends through that experience alone.

    I appreciated that Trion has tried to give players a variety of pvp experiences...from dueling, to warfronts (with a variety of raid sizes, objectives and maps), and also encouraging larger scale PvP, aka Conquest. Trion has taken a number of steps over the years to encourage a better balance in conquest, and I support those efforts.

    I can't help but feel that the 5-man queue limit really does dumb down conquest to the point of frustration for any player who has an understanding and an appreciation for what conquest was intended to be. It is catering to the vocal minority of people who will find something to complain about...regardless of the circumstances.

    Speaking as someone who has always found a way to enjoy conquest, and as a regular conquest "leader" I find this new 5 man queue limit to be a more frustrating experience, that will discourage more people from stepping up and trying to lead. First, I'm not the kind of person to join in and start overcalling another leader, although I'm usually willing to step up and lead if asked. Those who are willing to call are much more likely now to be trolled, ridiculed, ignored, blamed and abandoned in a match, while the factions chaotically run around extractor capping and turret farming for kills. How is this better for conquest?????

    Setting up an organized raid within the match is now more time consuming, frustrating, and a bit unwieldy (particularly with the current private group function not working). I can understand why pugs might be somewhat happier with it, because they don't have to care what specs they use and they are somewhat less likely to get run over by an organized group of players, but it doesn't make anyone a better player. It does not encourage people to get to know other players because there is no direct interaction or accountability that you have from intentionally joining and working with other people. And from what I keep hearing from people who did participate, many have mentioned they are more likely to timer join, hoping for the win, but beyond that have even less of an incentive to join conquest now.

    I sincerely have not seen that the 5 man queue limit is any kind of improvement for conquest so far, and I hope that Trion will continue to look for other solutions to improving the conquest experience, as there are quite a few other suggestions that have been made over time.

    -shenoah@deepwood
    Last edited by Shanoah; 07-03-2015 at 05:54 AM.

  11. #176
    Ascendant butkus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Planetx View Post
    Premades still stacking onto same sides. Don't know if they are using exploit or they have good RNG to land on same team. It was during off hours.
    i seen a few teams get stacked but nothing like it was before the fix,i think it just rng.actually cq seems "more fair" now then its ever been.yesterday i ran a few cq,fights were pretty even and lasted a fews mins per.yes one team will always be stronger but things are way more balanced now.

    i cant say this was a bad change,it might end up being good for the game.if they put some gear back into cq like we had lessors back in sl,i think cq with be an active place again.
    Last edited by butkus; 07-03-2015 at 05:54 AM.
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  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanoah View Post
    I remember my first few conquests, loading in and running around like a deer in headlights. Being run over by random zergs, wandering around aimlessly while trying to figure out the map and the objectives. It was a very welcome revelation to discover that there was a group of people who did understand the map and the objectives, and were willing to help the lost sheep wandering around. I was encouraged to learn new and more useful raid specs, I enjoyed running with a variety of different leaders and groups (RoD, ABL), and I enjoyed the sense of camaraderie that came with working together.
    This was the exact same experience for me, but you and Dachro helped me learn a few of the ins and outs of CQ, although I still have a lot to learn.

    Maybe this is just me being optimistic, because that is just the type of person I am, but I really feel like the majority of premade leaders felt like they had a "duty" to help others learn CQ pre 3.0. Now I feel like most premade CQ leaders are burnt out, and only lead to get their weekly CQ win and kills in, I know I am in this boat.

    It is sad that 3.0 and now the 5 man premades have ruined the teaching/learning experience many of the CQ vets enjoyed.
    #endthedoublestandards

  13. #178
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    From what ive observed before, one of the main problem with the 20 man PM for CQ before is that one leader is trying to hoard all the geared players to join his pm (t1/t2 geared, max dreambreaker and such). Guess what happens now? well there wont be enough "geared" players now to contest that PM. Sure there may be some but not many.

    Well sure during peak times there may be at least another PM that could contest the previous one but how about during off peak?

    The 5 man PM is a welcome change. sure it isnt what everyone wanted especially those who frequently say that they wanna "play with their friends" and all that crap who just really wants a quick roflstompiownedyou <10 min cq. but it somehow get rids of that hoarding problem.

    I'd rather see a cq that lasts for 1-2 hours than a 5-10 mins with only a small group of "USUALS" who benefit from it
    Last edited by Lurker123; 07-03-2015 at 08:44 AM.

  14. #179
    Champion of Telara McChaffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker123 View Post
    From what ive observed before, one of the main problem with the 20 man PM for CQ before is that one leader is trying to hoard all the geared players to join his pm (t1/t2 geared, max dreambreaker and such). Guess what happens now? well there wont be enough "geared" players now to contest that PM.
    This isn't the case in Hellokitty@Hailol. Most of the leads who form there take whoever messages first or whichever player has a spec they need. Recruiting based off gear is dumb as most players are on the same level in CQ.
    Everything after Storm Legion was a mistake. (™)

  15. #180
    Plane Walker Shanoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker123 View Post
    From what ive observed before, one of the main problem with the 20 man PM for CQ before is that one leader is trying to hoard all the geared players to join his pm (t1/t2 geared, max dreambreaker and such). Guess what happens now? well there wont be enough "geared" players now to contest that PM. Sure there may be some but not many.

    The 5 man PM is a welcome change. sure it isnt what everyone wanted especially those who frequently say that they wanna "play with their friends" and all that crap who just really wants a quick roflstompiownedyou <10 min cq. but it somehow get rids of that hoarding problem.

    I'd rather see a cq that lasts for 1-2 hours than a 5-10 mins with only a small group of "USUALS" who benefit from it
    All of the leaders who form in the HelloKitty@Hailol channel have been discouraged from asking for gear/level/hit checks. They are allowed to ask for specific raid specs and that's really about it. Sure, they will often invite friends first..because it's a social interactive game, and it's more fun when you have people you know are willing to work together.

    Most of the leaders also openly share the hellokitty@hailol channel information in /1 chat at the end of a conquest match...the channel is truly open to anyone who was interested in having the chance to join a premade. They are/were welcome to stay in the channel as long as they were not considered toxic to the community.

    Speaking from personal experience, my raid would usually fill up after only one posting, indicating that there were more players interested in premades than there were available premades. I never denied bringing anyone who sent me a tell on a first come, first serve basis.
    Last edited by Shanoah; 07-03-2015 at 11:52 AM.

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