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Thread: Forced PvE and PvP

  1. #1
    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
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    Default Forced PvE and PvP

    I'm starting a new thread for discussions about what I personally feel is the real issue with the current system and it harkens back to Conquest Power and the removal of it. You can find a link to that thread down below. I'm going to also give a link to my original reply in the Perspective thread.

    Conquest Power Removal: http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...r-discuss.html

    Original Reply: http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...er-them-9.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosbringer12 View Post
    This is exactly what people did not want though and this is also a big reason that contributed Trion to taking out conquest power in the first place. It can be argued that you can spend your time doing whatever you want to gain currency, but as it's already been stated many times, the majority of RIFT's playerbase and for a lot of mmos in general, it's mostly PvE players. This majority now makes up most of the people who are pvping these days because unless people are farming 10/11 or 11/11 HK they're not going to wrack up any of the new currency any other way. In this regard raiders are forced into PvPing and vice versa when they really don't want to. I think a lot of the AFKer's are these kinds of people who don't enjoy pvp one bit, but do it because that's the only good way progress into the new content.

    I think someone mentioned that there aren't any new upgrade paths for current pvp gear so some pvpers may even be forced into raiding if they want to stay on top. I'm sure really good pvpers will still beat people in HK gear, but it will reach a certain point (again) where skill won't matter anymore when the gear quality is far better. I recall people having issues with this back with rank 90s roflstomping new pvpers without much effort.

    Keep in mind that i'm not saying "screw pvpers" but i'm not sure what they can do to fix the current state of pvp, Right now it's not working out too well on top of all of the other issues it has.
    Right now warfronts are filled with people who both play and pay to PvE and don't enjoy pvping at all, but quite literally only do it because there's no other option to keep up on marks for raiding. These same people don't know how to do objectives in WFs and don't care to either because aside from getting marks there's no other motivation behind it. As i've seen a few people state already that it's nice to have one set of gear for both parts of the game, but it needs to be reverted back to where PvPers can progress only in pvp and vice versa for PvErs.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    Default The internet is still new.

    CQ sucks: always did, always will. It teaches nothing about pvp except that if you're lucky and hang with the crowd you might win. Zerg to the max.

    PvE players have no interest in PvP and visa versa. Me killing some cartoon just doesn't get it for me. Maybe if the cartoon could fight back with an AI intelligence, but not like it is now.

    I imagine that gaming won't look the same in 10 years. Hopefully, there will be a working AI controlling the backroom rather than what's there now.

    I look forward to the future because the present sucks.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Zehne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baald View Post
    PvE players have no interest in PvP and visa versa.
    Good to know you're not bashful.

    I for one am technically a raider first, and PvPer second.

    And I say technically because I PERSONALLY enjoy the success of an earned kill.

    But at the same time I PERSONALLY enjoy PvP when it is competitive. God knows I got sucked into several hours of PvP after my weeklies were done, just because it was enjoyable at the time.

    The problem with what you say is that you separate the game into PvP and PvE. There are many many facets of the game, and you pretty much lump all of them that aren't PvP into one you call 'PvE' and make a very personally biased blanket statement about it.

    All that said, I agree with the OP to an extent. There shouldn't be anything that 'forces' people into doing the stuff they don't want to do. There have been many suggestions in the past. My favorite is the one where:
    No WF/Expert charges, just charges(usable universally across the different aspects)
    No WF/Expert Weeklies, just Weeklies, you can do X number, but not all of them(pick the ones you want to do)

    Of course, things like NMR would have to stay NMR's, but separating the weeklies/charges would be the first 'step' in the direction of non-'forcing' of content.

    It would be hard to separate everything, for example there isn't a PvP equivalent of raiding(this is my personal bias), but at the minimum separating WF's from experts and weeklies would be a good starting spot.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
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    Yeah. The overall point of the thread is that we shouldn't be forced into playing content we don't like in regard to pve vs pvp. To narrow it down some more a lot of pvpers don't care to do dungeons and raids. They don't play rift to do those things, but may still enjoy doing other content like instant adventures or even dimensioneering ect.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    Default PVP sucks period

    I play rift for the PVE content, I do not mind doing PVP and WF's at all as long as I win now and then. The last few weeks WF's have sucked, getting tried of queuing and being dropped into a WF that is half over with, this is something I do not enjoy and looking hard at other games or matched with Pre-made's that wipe everyone out. Seeing scores at 260 to 16 in the first two minutes is telling me that the system is broke and Trion simply does not care about the majority of players in rift. Trion has totally dropped the ball here, Trion it would be nice if you stopped wasting your time trying to fix crap that does not need to be fixed and work out the bug's that need fixing then this game may be worth playing.

  6. #6
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    I'm pretty much in the same boat as Zehne. I'm a raider, and a 'PvEer', but I like PvP. I actually do well in matches, and have a great time, win or lose. To say that all PvEers hate and suck at PvP is just blatantly false (though might be true more often than not).

    The key to me is to do them when I want to PvP. Sometimes, I get my weeklies done, and have a great time doing it. Sometimes I don't feel like it, and I only get them half done. This week, I didn't PvP once, because I was busy with RL stuff, and wasn't feeling it. I wasn't going to subject myself or other players to doing something I didn't want to do, and as a consequence, I left a lot of marks on the table. If I was in a top 10, competitive raiding guild, that might be an issue, but I'm at the upper end of the gear curve in my guild, and I don't think waiting an extra week or two for a piece of gear is going to set us behind.

    The same goes for NTEs. I haven't done one on my main in about a month, because they frankly bore the hell out of me. Nightmare Stars and a handful of marks isn't worth the brain drain, so I just don't.

    The bottom line is that the system is compelling, but doesn't force anyone to do anything. Min/maxing is completely a personal and/or social choice. I think there are ways Trion can make it a little more forgiving and give people more flexibility, and that would be a great thing, but some people will go to great lengths to eek out ever last mark possible.

    tl;dr, I have the luxury of finishing PvP stuff at my leisure, so I do. I should probably be less of a slacker sometimes, but whatevs. I'd love to have the option to mix things up, a la combined charges idea.
    Last edited by Koraii; 05-26-2015 at 01:51 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosbringer12 View Post
    Yeah. The overall point of the thread is that we shouldn't be forced into playing content we don't like in regard to pve vs pvp.
    This so much.

    The gear unification was supposed to allow going back and forth between content, if you wished to. So you weren't locked out of content like in the past. The goal isn't to strongarm you into content you don't want to do however, which is exactly what they're doing.
    Anva/Daliza

  8. #8
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    This game is not competitive enough to "force" anyone to do anything, PvPer or PvEr. I'm a raider. Sometimes I do my PvP dailies/weeklies, sometimes I don't. More often I don't, and I never do CQ kills. But it doesn't matter, because raids aren't hard enough to warrant the extra effort and people are so bad in PvP that I don't need any tiny gear advantages I could get by investing 10-20 hours more per week.

  9. #9
    Champion Nuitaran's Avatar
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    I've had extensive conversations about this with Ocho in pm. I've posted a thread for open suggestions on how to make the situation better and allow more people to have more fun. Dozens of good suggestions were handed down. The dev team was somehow unaware that people feeling "forced" into content they don't want to participate in was making everyone unhappy. At this point they have gone silent on the subject. They are either taking our suggestions, or ignoring our concerns. Time will tell.

    For now, I do my warfront weekly, my warfront kills and sometimes my IA's. I'd rather be undergeared and happy than BIS and miserable. Now all we need to do is get the folks that don't want to PVP out of PVP and we are golden.
    Last edited by Nuitaran; 05-26-2015 at 05:46 PM.
    KABOOM!

  10. #10
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosbringer12 View Post
    Right now warfronts are filled with people who both play and pay to PvE and don't enjoy pvping at all, but quite literally only do it because there's no other option to keep up on marks for raiding. These same people don't know how to do objectives in WFs and don't care to either because aside from getting marks there's no other motivation behind it. As i've seen a few people state already that it's nice to have one set of gear for both parts of the game, but it needs to be reverted back to where PvPers can progress only in pvp and vice versa for PvErs.
    You don't need to keep up on marks. Mostly everyone is done with Raids after HK. There was only a handful of raiders who even managed to complete Tier 3 in SL and like 1 or 2 after. That is why you have Trion rehashing content for raids. It isn't worth developing new content for less than 5% of the player base.

    As for pvp. There are plenty of premades who have pvp and pve gear mixed that decimate time stamps per day. The problem will always be Trions poor matchmaking and blacklisting some players to carry the potatoes vs. these premades. It is quite apparent that the system is meant to screw a particular group of solo players over. I am not totally against premades but I do wish there was somethings in Rift I can enjoy at my on leisure and with the matchmaking system all ****ed up I am just forced to feed and afk for the weeklies regardless more than 50% of the time or jump on the premade bandwagon and get auto wins with 0 competition by avoiding the other premade. No gear change will help this out. Nothing is being made to fix autolosses, imbalanced team sizes, mismatched healers on both sides, and premade pug stomping and gloating like its an impressive achievement when it isn't even competitive pvp.
    Last edited by Planetx; 05-26-2015 at 07:50 PM.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Asenturius's Avatar
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    Let's be totally frank,if they didn't force pvp on the pve crowd less people than you may imagine would even bother to step foot in a warfront,let alone conquest...and they know it.

  12. #12
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asenturius View Post
    Let's be totally frank,if they didn't force pvp on the pve crowd less people than you may imagine would even bother to step foot in a warfront,let alone conquest...and they know it.
    How do you figure? There were no problems queuing during Storm Legion. If there's no one left to queue at the moment, that's entirely Trion's fault, for pushing so many PvPers away.

    I can agree on the CQ part, the teams I've seen in this expansion are far smaller.
    Anva/Daliza

  13. #13
    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    This game is not competitive enough to "force" anyone to do anything, PvPer or PvEr. I'm a raider. Sometimes I do my PvP dailies/weeklies, sometimes I don't. More often I don't, and I never do CQ kills. But it doesn't matter, because raids aren't hard enough to warrant the extra effort and people are so bad in PvP that I don't need any tiny gear advantages I could get by investing 10-20 hours more per week.
    Pretty much this.

    Nobody is holding a gun at anyone head forcing them to play a certain content in Rift.
    Cheesecakesandwich - Mage 70 | Wrecking - Warrior 70
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    I'm a grand connoisseur of the most delicate dish known as the poutine.

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