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Thread: Do you have to PVE to PVP?

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Do you have to PVE to PVP?

    I am looking to rejoin rift but I hear there is no more pvp gear? I also heard that if you want your gear in any realistic time frame you have to raid/do dailies, etc. I just want to pvp though =(

  2. #2
    Plane Walker
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    Yep, it helps to do some PVE. But overall I'd say it's more the opposite, you have to PVP in order to PVE. PVP dailies and weeklies give a lot of currency, that most PVE players can't afford to miss, and PVP gear can be very good for PVE too.

    Overall, PVP (dailies, weeklies, drops) give pretty good rewards per time invested. Plus, your gear is downscaled or scaled up, to even things out a little and give everyone a chance. It still helps to do PVE, like notoriety dailies in order to get notoriety runes. But it's not too bad. I don't raid, and I feel competitive in PVP. When I do get owned and feel like I can't compete with someone, it's typically some very experienced PVPer or a premade, not PVE raiders.

  3. #3
    Champion CDagger's Avatar
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    Depends on the class. T1 Relic or T2 gloves are BiS for pvp, they change your stats a bit due to the bolster, but they provide a large amount of all three stats, as opposed to a singular stat. If I remember correctly, it looks something like 90 CP vs 100 AP and 100 Phys crit, for instance when I looked at the numbers for my Rogue Gloves.

    Also off hands for Rogues are going to be vastly better for the rogue if they use marksman, Ranger, Bard or Physician, as the weapon dps, or white numbers, are not affected by downbolster, despite being a huge part of the dps for a Marksman. It would also, if the bug persists this long, eventually be worth it to use it as a Main hand weapon, but that's only theoretical, as using a T2 mainhand is likely not worth it because you'll lose not only the stats of the weapon, but the rune and the enhancement, which is somewhere around 200 AP.

    That being said, to gear cap at T1, in any realisitic time frame, you are going to need to do both random ques, and most of the pve weeklies. Doing it that way will get you to full T1 in 3-4 months assuming you don't pop token vials and don't raid. Raiding cuts it down a bit, but also depends on what the rate of clearance you are able to get into is.
    Last edited by CDagger; 05-25-2015 at 02:11 PM.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    everyone needs to do a bit of both, these days. PvPers need to PvE, and PvEers need to PvP.

    however, if you are only interested in gearing for PvP...
    you will gear significantly faster, and for greatly reduced token cost if you go the PvE route.
    this is if you are just after "competitive" gear (not BiS).
    the PvP route will take significantly longer, and cost far more in tokens to upgrade, but you will have greater variety in stat choices (though lower main stat across the board).

    if what you are after is BiS gear for PvP you will need to raid, or accept that it is going to be a very long time before you have BiS gear.

    now the raider will tell you that "some" PvP gear is BiS... and this is true. for some accessory slots. for now.
    but the fact of the matter is you cannot get a complete set of BiS gear from PvP alone. the gear that does drop in PvP does not upgrade to the upper bolster level (T1 purple raid gear), and even if it did, it would take too long when even the casual raiders are already past this point.

    in terms of gear for PvP: raid, of resign yourself to being handicapped vs any raiding player.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    Words of advice: Most answers you will get here are going to be biased.

    So far, only Yakmir posted a non-biased answer. Ignore the others who use this thread as an excuse for their ranting.
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  6. #6
    Shadowlander
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    Everyone is forced to do pretty much everything.

    PvPers are doing raids/dungeons, and PvEers are doing conquest/WF's. So no one is happy.
    Last edited by Nearest; 05-25-2015 at 04:29 PM.
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  7. #7
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    Words of advice: Most answers you will get here are going to be biased.

    So far, only Yakmir posted a non-biased answer. Ignore the others who use this thread as an excuse for their ranting.
    Yakmir might seem the more unbiased, but his was also the lightest on detail (where the devil is), while reading between his lines can reveal some harsh truths:

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakmir View Post
    ...PVP dailies and weeklies give a lot of currency, that most PVE players can't afford to miss...

    ...Overall, PVP (dailies, weeklies, drops) give pretty good rewards per time invested...
    what this also says is: "PvPers have to do more PvE than PvEers have to do Pvp".
    this actually hits PvPers twice, because the PvP gear requires substantially more currency investment than the PvE gear does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakmir View Post
    Plus, your gear is downscaled or scaled up, to even things out a little and give everyone a chance.
    forgot to mention that the maximum upgrade of the PvP dropped gear is below the point that better gear is downscaled too.
    additionally, once you get better PvE gear, it will always be better than the PvP gear. even if Trion was to raise the downscale point and add another upgrade tier to the PvP dropped gear, the PvEers would still have better gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakmir View Post
    I don't raid, and I feel competitive in PVP.
    he doesn't have gear that is BiS for PvP.

    there is "unbiased"
    then there is "the cold harsh truth"
    Last edited by Kronos v; 05-25-2015 at 04:38 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    See, the answer is suppose to be "no".

    But here you have clauses and explanations. Leet.
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  9. #9
    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    Yakmir might seem the more unbiased, but his was also the lightest on detail (where the devil is), while reading between his lines can reveal some harsh truths:
    There is nothing to read in between the lines.
    The "details", as you call them, are nothing more than biased opinions with no substantial proofs or numbers to back them up.

    You say the BiS gear for PvP come from PvE. Please post numbers as well as the pieces of gear we are talking about to back up that claim.

    You say it cost more to upgrade PvP gear than to upgrade PvE gear. Well it doesn't, no need to post numbers because it can easily be verified.
    PvP boots cost 6 accelerators versus 8 for PvE.
    Main hand and ranged weapon cost 12 for PvP and 13 for PvE.
    The favor accelerators are irrelevant and worth less than the crafted amenders needed to upgrade the PvE gear.
    Last edited by Snap; 05-25-2015 at 05:17 PM.
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  10. #10
    Prophet of Telara Meowy's Avatar
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    In warfronts, you'd be fine with pvp gear vs a raider.

    In open world though...
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  11. #11
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    There is nothing to read in between the lines.
    The "details", as you call them, are nothing more than biased opinions with no substantial proofs or numbers to back them up.

    You say the BiS gear for PvP come from PvE. Please post numbers as well as the pieces of gear we are talking about to back up that claim.
    basic raid T1 chest (does not get bolstered down)
    Do you have to PVE to PVP?-pve-bis-chest.jpg

    upgraded NME chest (pve equivalent to the pvp dreambreaker)
    Do you have to PVE to PVP?-pve-chest.jpg

    upgraded dreambreaker chest (best you can get from pvp)
    Do you have to PVE to PVP?-pvp-chest.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    You say it cost more to upgrade PvP gear than to upgrade PvE gear. Well it doesn't, no need to post numbers because it can easily be verified.
    PvP boots cost 6 accelerators versus 8 for PvE.
    Main hand and ranged weapon cost 12 for PvP and 13 for PvE.
    The favor accelerators are irrelevant and worth less than the crafted amenders needed to upgrade the PvE gear.
    I can only assume you are looking at a single upgrade tier of the pvp gear (ephemeral -> dreambreaker) and not the total cost of the full upgrade path (marauder -> ephemeral -> dreambreaker ( -> empowered dreambreaker in some cases)). i would hope this is through ignorance rather than a deliberate attempt to deceive.

    pvp chest costs 17 Abyssal Crusaders Accelerators versus 13 for the NTE pve chest. (note these are not BiS, but it is the best you can get from pvp and its pve equivalent)
    main hand pvp 16 ACAs vs 13 for the pve of the same level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    So in your picture, you gain a whoping 0.5 AP from using Tier 1 rather than Dreambreaker.
    Some near-useless armor and about 100 phys crit which is worth less than 20 AP in terms of stats weight.

    Considering that this is the chest slot we are talking about, it means it has the biggest difference in stats of all the pieces (except for 2 handed weapon) and you can get it without stepping in any PvE content.

    Pieces that aren't obtainable with Fragments of Horrors (Neck, Rings, Earrings and Cape) all have even less of a disparity between them if any at all.

    So much for BiS gear. I guess I win against you at PvP because I have ~100 more AP/SP than you, not because I am simply better than you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    I can only assume you are looking at a single upgrade tier of the pvp gear (ephemeral -> dreambreaker) and not the total cost of the full upgrade path (marauder -> ephemeral -> dreambreaker ( -> empowered dreambreaker in some cases)). i would hope this is through ignorance rather than a deliberate attempt to deceive.

    pvp chest costs 17 Abyssal Crusaders Accelerators versus 13 for the NTE pve chest. (note these are not BiS, but it is the best you can get from pvp and its pve equivalent)
    main hand pvp 16 ACAs vs 13 for the pve of the same level.
    Cost aren't all the same but for the most part, it cost less to upgrade from Marauder to Dreambreaker. The only extra cost is for empowered pieces. Which you only want the main weapon to have anyways since the set bonus is utterly worthless.

    You still don't have to bother with the expensive crafted amenders when upgrading PvP gear.
    Last edited by Snap; 05-25-2015 at 09:21 PM.
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  13. #13
    Prophet of Telara
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    Weapon dps needs to get bolstered down. That is why you are seeing huge numbers from non caster classes. Rogue/Warrior damage is actually broken..

  14. #14
    Plane Walker Sekirach's Avatar
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    short and honest answer to your exact question - Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    See, the answer is suppose to be "no".

    But here you have clauses and explanations. Leet.
    its is supposed to be, but its not. therefore the debates.

  15. #15
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meowy View Post
    In warfronts, you'd be fine with pvp gear vs a raider.

    In open world though...
    True. But OP or other people shouldn't choose Rift for open world PVP, not because of any issues, but because it hardly exists.

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