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Thread: Allow Raids to queue for WFs

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser Avind's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Allow Raids to queue for WFs

    Why?

    5 player premades are obviously suffering under the present matchmaking system (judging by their level of QQ )

    Seriously though, grouping with other players is what builds a pvp community. It's great that premades are no longer penalised with ridiculous queue times. Allowing larger groups to queue will introduce more organisation into warfronts as well as an opportunity for theorycrafters to test out exotic raid comps.

    Some may feel that premades are an unfair advantage and that increasing their size makes it harder for those that solo queue. This may be the case for some players that are unwilling to go outside their comfort zone and adapt to new challenges but increasing the amount of organised groups will by extension increase the prevalence of good gameplay; this would serve to raise the bar in general pvp.

    With the death of open world pvp there's basically no reason for pvp guilds to exist. Allowing larger groups in wfs would go a long way towards revitalizing the organised pvp scene.


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  2. #2
    Plane Touched Fusscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avind View Post
    Why?

    5 player premades are obviously suffering under the present matchmaking system (judging by their level of QQ )

    Seriously though, grouping with other players is what builds a pvp community. It's great that premades are no longer penalised with ridiculous queue times. Allowing larger groups to queue will introduce more organisation into warfronts as well as an opportunity for theorycrafters to test out exotic raid comps.

    Some may feel that premades are an unfair advantage and that increasing their size makes it harder for those that solo queue. This may be the case for some players that are unwilling to go outside their comfort zone and adapt to new challenges but increasing the amount of organised groups will by extension increase the prevalence of good gameplay; this would serve to raise the bar in general pvp.

    With the death of open world pvp there's basically no reason for pvp guilds to exist. Allowing larger groups in wfs would go a long way towards revitalizing the organised pvp scene.
    I'd much rather see WFs be smaller scale, with no more than 10 players per side. 15 man WFs are already a zergfest.
    Fusscle of Cheat Engine

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Mukoswave's Avatar
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    I hope they implement this, it would be nice to have a premade for wfs like port scion. I honestly don't know why people QQ about premades, seems too me that people automatically assume that once they are against a premade they lose.
    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    I admit, even I am not genius enough to design a game with PvP, that gets filled with players who hate dislike PvP engaging in it, and ruin the PvP for the people who want to PvP. I mean, let's hand it. That is pretty insane genius. I am thinking of the potential I could have in life if I mastered this. If I could design something and get people who don't even want to do it, flooding my gates doing it on their own will.

  4. #4
    RIFT Guide Writer Meaghanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukoswave View Post
    I hope they implement this, it would be nice to have a premade for wfs like port scion. I honestly don't know why people QQ about premades, seems too me that people automatically assume that once they are against a premade they lose.
    I QQ about premades because they take screenshots and use them as ways to boost their self esteem on these forums. Being carried by 2 or 3 raid geared healers, I sure hope you go 60 - 0 in a WF.

    Also, it takes ZERO skills to be in a premade and win. Having someone wipe your arse for you while you (the MM or Reaver) stand behind 3 healers that are in voice with you is not skillful.

    I like it when my pug team stomps a greedy premade looking for kills vs. wins. You know, considering it's all about the Elo and wins now

    (Don't tell me the kills are for the weekly. It only takes several good matches to get the kills.)

    To the OP:

    Allowing more sheep into a premade would in my opinion kill warfronts even more. As it is, they're on their last bit of ability to make it fun for those of us that don't do premades.

    If that many people want premades then make it 2 seperate queues again, for good. Not when X amount of time passes by then have premades queue with pugs.

    Hey, if premades want to form and have more friends than the rest of us, hell, make them FIND and form another premade to queue against. It's that simple. But keep it in a premade queue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avind View Post
    This may be the case for some players that are unwilling to go outside their comfort zone and adapt to new challenges but increasing the amount of organised groups will by extension increase the prevalence of good gameplay; this would serve to raise the bar in general pvp.
    Also, this made me laugh. Go outside their comfort zones? How about people that will only queue with a butt wiper in a premade go out of THEIR comfort zone and solo or duo queue? Duo queues still allow you to have your diaper changer.
    Last edited by Meaghanne; 05-11-2015 at 10:49 AM.
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  5. #5
    Champion of Telara Veldan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusscle View Post
    I'd much rather see WFs be smaller scale, with no more than 10 players per side. 15 man WFs are already a zergfest.
    This has been my thought for years.

  6. #6
    Rift Chaser Fopod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusscle View Post
    I'd much rather see WFs be smaller scale, with no more than 10 players per side. 15 man WFs are already a zergfest.
    It would take more than just that...
    Almost every maps are all about 1 choke point.

    They should also change the objectives on the maps to make zerging a bad tactic (Like Blighted Antechamber), make maps larger with more ways to go from one side to the other (Like Port Scion) and reduce the amount of players in the warfronts (Library of the runemaster is a freaking joke. 30 people in a tiny room... who thought that would be a good idea? Seriously?)

  7. #7
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    In my Rift experience since beta.

    Casual PM's are not the issue. So yes, allowing actual friends to que together is a wonderful idea and not an issue to the casual fun of others. I embrace going against you and your friends playing X souls and just everyone having fun.

    Then there is the reality of the raid-geared pvp players who play perfect compositions, play with TS or some other communication enabled program, and have assist macros.

    Who here likes to be squirreled, rooted, and killed in roughly 2 seconds or less by 3 fotm dps in max raid gear? Even with a dedicated healer you'd die in about 4 seconds. Oh and they just knew to target you because they have a focus macro so all three or four dps just hit you at once. Sometimes you really do die in 1 gcd. It's on to the next player after that.

    Casual PM's and Pugs cannot compete with this. Really its not even competition. There's a reason almost everything in life has tiers and rankings. To make matters worse the PM system is broken, as is the matchmaking system. We all know this. It's broken on so many levels. Consider the fact those voicing their opinions on Rift Forums consists of about 10% or less of the whole population, yet we've all seen/listed players and items and mechanics in game that are completely broken. That is to say, every ELO broken player you've seen is only a small slice of the pie. Logic would tell you there are tons of players out there with broken ELO's, and thus, matchmaking is completely flawed just by this alone.

    Back on topic, however. Trion basically allows players in top gear with focus macros, best form of communication, and playing FOTM specs to roll over players so that the casual PM's can get in there too. I guess its up to you to decide if you like that or not.

    Personally I'd lower it to 2-3 players max. Even 2 players can decimate teams. There are more casuals then PM's. On that alone I'd base the fun factor and make a decision on what to do. Last, as a pvper, I don't care if you are my friend if you are with or against me. The challenge is in how good a player I'm playing. If its a friend, so be it. Even more fun and challenging.

    And yes, I've destroyed whole teams over and over again playing with a full PM of really good players. It gets so boring I usually want to solo que. Idealistically if there were tons of great PM player teams out there, I'd be all for PM's. There hasn't been for the longest time and its silly to imagine (with Trions current direction-which is their own fault really) that we are getting that anytime soon.

    Oh and for Ocho: The reason your stats show PM's win-loss outcome isn't decided by being a PM or not is because you took completely casual PM players to include just husband and wife comps doing whatever and compared them to constant PM players playing with max everything. You are not correctly comparing, or rather, you are getting a false statistic for biased reasons so you can state information that hides the truth of what everyone wants to really know-which is about the maxed out PM players they run into. While I realize the improbability of weeding out that completely casual b/f g/f duo group from the real raid geared max everything constant PM's, it is possible. The constant PM players are known. Give us their normal win-loss ratio. That's the PM everyone is discussing. Not..lol, truly casual players-you won't find a complaint about them anywhere. Your stats just want to clump them into the discussion even though no one cares what win-loss ratio Billy is at who plays with his wife because its something they do together for casual fun. I think you get the point.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 05-11-2015 at 12:18 PM.

  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer Meaghanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fopod View Post
    It would take more than just that...
    Almost every maps are all about 1 choke point.

    They should also change the objectives on the maps to make zerging a bad tactic (Like Blighted Antechamber), make maps larger with more ways to go from one side to the other (Like Port Scion) and reduce the amount of players in the warfronts (Library of the runemaster is a freaking joke. 30 people in a tiny room... who thought that would be a good idea? Seriously?)
    Daglar designed Library of the Runemasters. It's one of my favorite maps, but back when melee was a wet dream, it was perfect. It does get crowded but I'm with you on the larger scale maps. I hate Codex but that size is good, but only if moving in groups not solos.
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  9. #9
    Rift Chaser Fopod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meaghanne View Post
    Daglar designed Library of the Runemasters. It's one of my favorite maps, but back when melee was a wet dream, it was perfect. It does get crowded but I'm with you on the larger scale maps. I hate Codex but that size is good, but only if moving in groups not solos.
    This is what I don't understand...

    What do you find perfect or even good in Library of the Runemasters?
    Everything in there is an annoyance...
    1. Microscopic room
    2. Overload of players
    3. Complete lack of strategy
    4. Doing objective HURTS you
    5. Barely any place to go for melees without giving every ranged players LoS.
    6. Choke points...
    The only good thing about it are the tiny pillars on the middle ring that can be used for LoS.

    I just don't understand...
    How can people like those kind of maps?
    Like Whitefall Steppes... how can anyone enjoy that map???
    Why do people hate Blighted Antechamber??? The only melee friendly map with more than 1 objective!!!

    :/

  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer Meaghanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fopod View Post
    This is what I don't understand...

    What do you find perfect or even good in Library of the Runemasters?
    Everything in there is an annoyance...
    1. Microscopic room
    2. Overload of players
    3. Complete lack of strategy
    4. Doing objective HURTS you
    5. Barely any place to go for melees without giving every ranged players LoS.
    6. Choke points...
    The only good thing about it are the tiny pillars on the middle ring that can be used for LoS.

    I just don't understand...
    How can people like those kind of maps?
    Like Whitefall Steppes... how can anyone enjoy that map???
    Why do people hate Blighted Antechamber??? The only melee friendly map with more than 1 objective!!!

    :/
    I mainly play healer so maps like Codex are a pain unless people use coordination to move as a small group from point to point to fight, otherwise you're only healing effectively a handful of people. Black Garden allows enough movement along with Karthan Ridge to have both melee and ranged be effective.

    Maps like Library and KR where fights happen close together in groups, healing them is more effective imo. Library is one of the first warfronts we're exposed to leveling, I've leveled many toons through PVP back when max levle was 50. Library and Black Garden were the most fun to me, so maybe it's personal preference.

    But with spec changes and meta changes in PVP, I can see your point. Port Scion is a bit of a mess on the bridge choke point but that's a number buffer, stand there, AoE heal or damage and get screen shot worthy numbers. Other than that, worthless.

    I like Blighted more than Codex tbh, hate Codex almost as much as Whitefall Steppes. Blighted is great for a few specs that don't shine in other maps. I like playing Shaman or arb/dom on my mage in Blighted.
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    CQ needs a enema.
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