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Thread: To much CC in Warfronts

  1. #46
    Rift Chaser
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    im ok with CC, im NOT ok with getting stunned, feared and rooted by ranged specs all the time.

  2. #47
    Shadowlander Faeruna's Avatar
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    When I defend or attack a flag in domination-type WF's, battles tend to be small and arena-like. Clashes like these are often all about the defender delaying the capture of their flag for as long as possible until help arrives. The outcome of the fight, be it successful defense or successful capture will be decided by many factors. The 'dance' that happens between each side in this kind of fight is the most fun part of all PvP in Rift (at least it is for me).

    The outcome of the dance is determined by many factors such as gear difference; LoS and positioning, mitigation, burst, available CD's; being outnumbered; being co ordinated with others, deception and so on. The factors that we can control are the factors that act as our leverage to apply pressure. The extent to which we can effectively use and control these factors represents our skill. The battle for advantage across each and every factor is what PvP is all about and is what makes it so much fun - it often feels like a 'dance', a deadly one.

    Having CC as a tool to swing factors one way or another adds a layer of control, subtlety and complexity to a fight. It gives me MANY more ways to outplay an opponent which means it raises the skill cap substantially and places a burden on players to know what CC is available to each current spec in the meta and act accordingly. Concretely, a skilled well geared player can even offset being outnumbered (probably the worst disadvantage possible) with CC. - possibly just barely being able to 1v2 or 1v3.

    Adding more ways to outplay others is desireable imho. Rift PvP without CC would mean that there would be far less control over the factors that determine victory. Things like numbers, mitigation and gear would become more important, whilst positioning and LoS would be weighted more heavily than now, though remaining as important.

    If you want to lower the skill cap by removing most of our control over these factors, if you think that would make PvP more fun? Then ok sure. However I disagree.

    I want the dance to be complex, deadly and satisfying. I want to outplay others using as many layers as possible.
    Last edited by Faeruna; 05-15-2015 at 01:58 AM. Reason: Spelling, punctuation etc.

  3. #48
    Plane Walker Nickalispicalis's Avatar
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    There is a lot more CC in the game now then ever before. That much is true. Unlike other games, you are limited in your counters. Its part of your spec, or you are SOL.

    I think I saw some sort of break free pot in the AH being sold. They don't appear to be common though. The game needs more of ways to counter. This what RIFT lacks.

    Incidentally, somehow a Pyro was able stun three times in succession, in time space of about 30 seconds with no DR. How it is that possible ?

  4. #49
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickalispicalis View Post
    Incidentally, somehow a Pyro was able stun three times in succession, in time space of about 30 seconds with no DR. How it is that possible ?
    Two Pyros.

  5. #50
    Plane Walker Nickalispicalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palemoons View Post
    There MUST be CC in any kind of pvp, disrupting your opponent is as important as actually defeating them.

    However, when range classes have mobility and (admittedly better) CC, that too, from 30-35m range, it creates a huge imbalance against melee classes, most of which have melee-only CC skills.

    I just want to melee, knowing that I wont be rooted for 8 damned seconds by some random pyro.
    Indeed most CC is suppose to break on damage. The one's that Pyro's use doesn't. You get to sit there helplessly as they melt you down.

    I think CC is fine in a game, but there needs to more counters, not just break free and whatever your spec gives you. In RIFT there isn't and herein lies the problem.

  6. #51
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickalispicalis View Post
    Indeed most CC is suppose to break on damage.
    the only CC that is meant to break on damage is the mez style CC (squirrel/fear/sleep). they tend to have a longer duration than stuns.
    stuns are never meant to break on CC, but usually have a shorter duration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  7. #52
    Rift Disciple Zzuul's Avatar
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    Maybe my memory of WoW is foggy (maybe 4 years ago) but I remember getting CC'd and owned faaaaarrr more often there than in Rift. Kick was doubly awesome as a Shadowpriest...goodbye shadow magic (all my useful spells) for an eternity. Oh, my trinket is down...yayyyyyyy /slit wrists.

    Oh and being nearly insta-gibbed by Chaos Bolts or Lava Bursts...seeing it coming and being like NOOOOOoooooo*BAM*. 25k crit Cinder Burst is a walk in the park compared to the damage those could do to your HP bar.

    Those are two of the reasons I quit WoW.

    CC in Rift is more of an annoyance, except when used in a clutch moment to FUBAR that healer, or stop that runner etc. Which is when it should be used.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylune View Post
    Explain to me why you think getting CC makes you good? I see it the other way around. If you need CC to win a fight you are not good, you are bad. Also you cannot make your own souls if you want to be competitive. You are forced to choose something that will do burst dps, and have utility. Is there any wonder why there are no full storm sorcs? Why are they all pyro or support? Why are there almost no sab rogs? Why are tank classes a complete waste? None of that is true.

    I agree with 2nd break free, I have tempest, gives me leapback. Doesn't change the fact that I am still locked down. I have to get back into the fight or I cannot heal. I don't heal= we lose. I am then waiting on CD and still getting CC and I would love to be rooted. At least I can cast. Nope i get debilitated, stunned or feared(I walk in place). So again having 2 of these does me no good. Unless they were both on 10 sec cd.

    I have yet to see anyone give an actual good reason why any CC is in the game. It's useless in PvE. Useless in dungeons and raids. So why even have it? 3 pages and not one reason.
    I use CC (utility) all the time, be it pve or pvp. Teams about to die in pve, healer got sudden aggro. My timely aoe fear sends the enemies running, the healer recovers, and we don't wipe. I do this all the time. Also the healer and tank do wipe-two adds are running free after us. I kite, utility run, stun CC, pew pew whew I just barely killed them and rez the team, saving time. I can come up with numerous examples across the board on all four callings with CC in pve alone.

    ....and I mostly pvp, so pvp has a ton more examples of skill outplaying each other. I win 80% of my 1v1's (meaning of the ones I actually win) in wfs because I out'cc'd the other player, utilizing my CC correctly, timed it, or in some cases waited to use it, to outplay some others.

    If you want a practical example I made a 50 physician, 26 bard that has an instant, 8 second mesmerize that breaks only on damage. I would keep 2 superb players, up to 6 really average players, busy trying to kill me while I kept objectives capped. Alternating the mesmerize kept people sitting around for 8 seconds at a time while all I do is heal up and shield up. I play my chords, building healing points and healing, keeping them from capping. I also took the same build into the last big player based tournament and beat Mageerza's team (instead of a BM mesmerizing I, the healer, was doing it, letting us have two full dps, one of which also squirreled with insta procs). All I had to do was make it 9 seconds because everyones healer was a physician in the 3v3. If you understand the math you'll understand why. You kill the dps, not the healer.

    Honestly you should be starting a thread titled, "I want to get better with X soul or calling-someone help me with builds and/or how you maximize utility and CC." Plenty of players will help, and even experienced players can learn some tricks. I certainly do from other players when I read the forums.

  9. #54
    Plane Touched Kat Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zzuul View Post
    Maybe my memory of WoW is foggy (maybe 4 years ago) but I remember getting CC'd and owned faaaaarrr more often there than in Rift. Kick was doubly awesome as a Shadowpriest...goodbye shadow magic (all my useful spells) for an eternity. Oh, my trinket is down...yayyyyyyy /slit wrists.

    Oh and being nearly insta-gibbed by Chaos Bolts or Lava Bursts...seeing it coming and being like NOOOOOoooooo*BAM*. 25k crit Cinder Burst is a walk in the park compared to the damage those could do to your HP bar.

    Those are two of the reasons I quit WoW.

    CC in Rift is more of an annoyance, except when used in a clutch moment to FUBAR that healer, or stop that runner etc. Which is when it should be used.
    Learn to Juke ! Spell school lockouts add a ton of skill to playing a caster and is something this game needs. Of course, those type of "kicks with lockouts" should be limited to melee souls.

    That was one of the things I enjoyed about shadow priest was how easy it was to juke with them. Spam mind flay and randomly interupt your channel often at various points. I loved the less mobile tanky type of caster like Warlock and Shadow Priests, Juking is fun and feels skillful. I loved the feeling of juking a interupt and then utilizing my 20 seconds of free casting.

    -or-

    as shadow priest if you get kicked on shadow you still have your holy tree. Flash heal, holy fire and whatever your bubble was called. Point being, as shadow being kicked while casting shadow was not that bad. You could also bait kicks with your holy tree spells and then free cast shadow damage. Getting kicked as Affliction was a different story, you were basically worthless.

    Dispel flame shock and try to be out of los of Shadow burn after the chaos bolt lands and you should be fine. Where is your team while you are getting one shot ?
    Open World PVP !
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  10. #55
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    I think there's not enough CC in warfronts, too long immunity periods, and what CC does exist is mostly faceroll ranged CC, and often simple aoe CC. Rift's biggest flaw, and why PVP here ultimately feels very casual.

    Don't take it all as a complaint, I think it would be near impossible to improve much, without getting rid of class flexibility.

    Although at least getting rid of the aoe CC would be nice. There's no reason to have any in the game. Aoe CC is a bad concept and adds nothing to PVP or PVE. Remove Aoe CC, reduce PVP CC immunities, I think that would make the game better.
    Last edited by Yakmir; 05-18-2015 at 10:40 PM.

  11. #56
    Telaran xamen's Avatar
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    I think the amount of CC in PVP is fine. I believe it seems so prevalent because it seems that almost every soul has a CC ability. Perhaps these abilities could be consolidated in a few support souls at the expense of some other utility (i.e. dps output)?

  12. #57
    Telaran Belarios's Avatar
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    Healers need equal CC and break frees to dps.

  13. #58
    Rift Disciple Zzuul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kat Head View Post
    Learn to Juke ! Spell school lockouts add a ton of skill to playing a caster and is something this game needs. Of course, those type of "kicks with lockouts" should be limited to melee souls.

    That was one of the things I enjoyed about shadow priest was how easy it was to juke with them. Spam mind flay and randomly interupt your channel often at various points. I loved the less mobile tanky type of caster like Warlock and Shadow Priests, Juking is fun and feels skillful. I loved the feeling of juking a interupt and then utilizing my 20 seconds of free casting.

    -or-

    as shadow priest if you get kicked on shadow you still have your holy tree. Flash heal, holy fire and whatever your bubble was called. Point being, as shadow being kicked while casting shadow was not that bad. You could also bait kicks with your holy tree spells and then free cast shadow damage. Getting kicked as Affliction was a different story, you were basically worthless.

    Dispel flame shock and try to be out of los of Shadow burn after the chaos bolt lands and you should be fine. Where is your team while you are getting one shot ?
    Fighting in mid...

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