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Thread: Incentive vs. Punishment

  1. #1
    Shield of Telara Talzoor's Avatar
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    Default Incentive vs. Punishment

    I hear Trion is looking into a way with dealing with afking in wf.

    I hope they consider more incentives for the player to stay instead of thinking of new ways to punish the player for leaving.

    Incentives:

    Progressive PvP Objectives. Achievements for completing pvp tasks would be a driving force to stay in wf and participate.

    PvP Progression. What good is having achievement points/currency if you cant use them properly? Bringing back meaning to prestige/favor/pvp consumables would be a good way to enable progression with in the pvp world.

    PvP Gear Normalization. There is nothing that will get a person to quit faster or afk faster then the realization that they can't contribute at all. After doing zero damage to a T1 healer or going tank spec to guard a flag and getting time stamped by a T1 sin they will quit or leave. And that in a bolstered area ... can you imagine a non bolstered area like world pvp with T2 armor? Ya, even fodder knows when to call it quits.

    The PvP medium: PvP is currently acting as an alternative way to gain pve currency. It would be great if this place could be the great equalizer for players. You got rejected from a dungeon/rift raid or NTE? Meet me in pvp wf where I worked my butt off to earn my pvp perks (although it could backfire if that person worked their butt off as well to earn the same perks ).

    One World Rift: PvP and PvE integration.

    I have been told there is no pve or pvp there is only rift. Well lets add more activities that promote the intended, Trion desired, "new direction."

    For instance, 5 v 5 arena is currently too low participation to queue or keep. So lets "revamp" it with (something like).

    5 vs (the) world. It would work much like instant adventures and carry the same rewards.

    Queue as either 5 man or the world.

    If a 5 vs 5 pop. It would work on a battle rez only quick death match. Instant downbolster/upbolster to 60.

    However, It would still suffer from low queue times. So how do you mitigate that?

    You integrate. Descend Into Madness - Shade of Akyilo's Minions. (Get it? Because he uses that to control you in that one NTE). You know how in an instant adventure you have a "boss mission"? Well just imagine of that "boss" was actual players.

    In a 5 vs world (pug), it would work like a short survival match where 5 organized would face off against an onslaught of lower level players example: 5 lvl 60 (bolstered) aka Akyilo's minions vs. 10-15 lvl 50? (bolstered) pugs aka dauntless ascended heroes. It should give the feeling of being overwhelmed and promote a strong urge to stick together for the 5 man (think left 4 dead with uh...5 people).

    Re-spawn timers are very quick for the pugs and very slow for the 5 man (if at all) in this event. As these should be intermission battles in-between waiting for 5 v 5. Once all 5 are down or short timer has been met. The event is over and regular IA continues until the next pop.

    The flow would look like: 5 vs. world -> 5 vs. world -> 5 vs. world -> 5 vs. 5 -> 5 vs. world -> 5 vs. 5 -> 5 vs. world -> 5 vs. world -> 5 vs. 5 -> -> ->

    Maybe give the 5 v 5 a mote or IA credit every few pops. Link the world side to the IA weekly and bam! You have instant integrated pve and pvp variety.

    We don't need full meals for every activity. Small snacks work just as well.

    The point is. This entire forum section is full of ideas for incentives. Please recognize some of them before resorting to more punishments. Thank you.

  2. #2
    Champion Nuitaran's Avatar
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    Errmahgerrrd 5v15 death matches for premades?

    I have no idea if you even said that. I'm in the middle of milking hour and lost focus partway through your post. If there were 5v15 death matches I would premade again. I think it's been 3 years since I've been in a real PM.
    KABOOM!

  3. #3
    Shield of Telara Talzoor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuitaran View Post
    Errmahgerrrd 5v15 death matches for premades?

    I have no idea if you even said that. I'm in the middle of milking hour and lost focus partway through your post. If there were 5v15 death matches I would premade again. I think it's been 3 years since I've been in a real PM.
    Yes it would be awesome!!

    5 evil bosses the aka PM vs the world!!

    Come on who doesn't like a good survival game?

  4. #4
    Plane Walker Hectyr's Avatar
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    Wouldn't the most effective solution to solving the "afk in warzone" problem be to consider the source of the problem?

    Why do players afk in warfronts?
    Why do players only want to join conquest at timer?
    Why do players afk near zone events and NTRs?

    Because they're there for the rewards- not the fun.

    Consider this: when pvp & pve gear progression was separate, players participated in pvp because they liked the activity. When players enjoy the activity in which they are currently engaged, their motivation reflects their enjoyment.

    The worst part of this scenario is that the players who DON'T want to be there are diminishing the enjoyment of the players that DO want to be there.


    As long as gear unification remains in effect, there will be raid-focused players afking in warfronts and pvp-focused players queuing for dungeons with as little preparation as possible.

    Enjoyment leads to motivation.

    Motivation leads to participation.

  5. #5
    Shield of Telara Talzoor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hectyr View Post
    Wouldn't the most effective solution to solving the "afk in warzone" problem be to consider the source of the problem?

    Why do players afk in warfronts?
    Why do players only want to join conquest at timer?
    Why do players afk near zone events and NTRs?

    Because they're there for the rewards- not the fun.

    Consider this: when pvp & pve gear progression was separate, players participated in pvp because they liked the activity. When players enjoy the activity in which they are currently engaged, their motivation reflects their enjoyment.

    The worst part of this scenario is that the players who DON'T want to be there are diminishing the enjoyment of the players that DO want to be there.


    As long as gear unification remains in effect, there will be raid-focused players afking in warfronts and pvp-focused players queuing for dungeons with as little preparation as possible.

    Enjoyment leads to motivation.

    Motivation leads to participation.

    I couldn't agree with you more!! BTW Hectyr we need to compile all your recent posts. You have been on fire with knowledge! I am a huge fan.

    Trion has been pretty clear that they don't want to split the armors. So I try to stay clear of that resolution.

    Now I'm focused on Enjoyment -> Motivation -> Participation
    As you so hit the nail on the head.

    People don't necessarily "afk." They become demotivated to play because they feel like they can't contribute. I'll even admit, there are matches I join where I just don't feel like jumping into the fray. It just doesn't seem "worth it" to feed the opponent in some matches.

    Now I understand Ocho when he says this is a part of PvP. "Break the players will to fight." However in a mmorpg if the "Will is broken" at the beginning of antechamber for instance. You have LONG wait ahead of you. You then get the leaves, the spawn sitters, the people who are dropped in to the lopsided game.

    This lowers the fun value for everyone. People just sit around and wait for it to end on both sides.

    By adding in mini objectives such as the ones presented in the Progressive PvP Objectives. You can essentially motivate people to participate even in a hopeless situation.

    CQ power was the absolute best example of this concept. I'll be 100% honest and tell you I never felt like I lost a match in CQ pre 3.0 because my purpose there was to capture nodes and gather prestige. If I won. It was a bonus to my efforts. Heck I joined CQ early and stayed to the end almost every time so that I could build that power and get favor/prestige.

    CQ was very populated when I first joined, even at off hours, and that was because it wasn't just about "afk" for the 1 prize and leave. It was something that you wanted to participate in for personal improvement. In contrast to now where I admittedly timer camp for 1 weekly win and that's it. It's not even worth it for the carnage or the prize. If they kill the timer camp I probably wouldn't even enter it at all.

    Why? We don't need prestige, we don't really need favor, the prizes are kinda weak, there is no CQ power, if you are on a bad team it's a large waste of time in this new 3.0 grind scheme where time is limited for people like me.

    These are things Trion needs to consider.

    I hope they focus on the type of motivation needed to get people engaged in pvp again (all pvp CQ/WF/OW). It's not about giving people free boxes or a check mark off a weekly. The winners will still get the prize but goal should be for everyone who participates still gets a chance to better themselves by actively playing. No one should feel like it's a "waste of time" to participate in a video game.

    I know you guys hate me for bringing it up but I still think it was a brilliant mechanic. AAO or against all odds in warhammer. That was instant motivation to fight in an overwhelming hopeless battle. You may not win. You may feel like the Spartans vs. the Persians ala 300. But at the point the battle become more than just a weekly mark or a box. You are fighting for every kill as it adds to your prestige/favor (which doesn't mean much right now) but it could if they wanted add something like that.

    So again you hit the nail on the head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hectyr View Post
    Wouldn't the most effective solution to solving the "afk in warzone" problem be to consider the source of the problem?

    Why do players afk in warfronts?
    Why do players only want to join conquest at timer?
    Why do players afk near zone events and NTRs?
    I think Trion is more focused on the prize and not as focused on the fun. It's not about giving everyone a prize for participation. It's about offering them progression for the effort applied. The prizes should be secondary an afterthought, when you end your wf match/cq match ETC the first thing you should think is, "wow ... that was a fun match."

    I also want to add, I play a bit of Defiance, Trion's other game. And in a lot of their events they give you rewards based on contribution. They show the contribution scoreboard and who all participated. Everyone got a reward and xp but those who strove to contribute the most got the bonuses (again they had this in Warhammer and loved it there too).

    So Trion knows how to do it. It's just a matter if they will implement it here or not.
    Last edited by Talzoor; 04-25-2015 at 02:51 AM.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hectyr View Post
    Wouldn't the most effective solution to solving the "afk in warzone" problem be to consider the source of the problem?

    Why do players afk in warfronts?
    Why do players only want to join conquest at timer?
    Why do players afk near zone events and NTRs?

    Because they're there for the rewards- not the fun.

    Consider this: when pvp & pve gear progression was separate, players participated in pvp because they liked the activity. When players enjoy the activity in which they are currently engaged, their motivation reflects their enjoyment.

    The worst part of this scenario is that the players who DON'T want to be there are diminishing the enjoyment of the players that DO want to be there.


    As long as gear unification remains in effect, there will be raid-focused players afking in warfronts and pvp-focused players queuing for dungeons with as little preparation as possible.

    Enjoyment leads to motivation.

    Motivation leads to participation.
    someone needs to write this on an oversized inflatable novelty squeaky bat and run around the Trion offices bonking staff on the head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  7. #7
    Plane Touched detpack's Avatar
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    Here is something constructive to add here... If the WF Caches didn't cost over 300 credits, instead lets say 50. We could actually enjoy PVP and know that we were improving our gear as well.

    Sounds fair to PVPers.

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