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Thread: Why can't we get bis PvP armor for participating in pvp?

  1. #1
    Shield of Telara Talzoor's Avatar
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    Default Why can't we get bis PvP armor for participating in pvp?

    There have been a lot of posts about afkers in wf. The truth is, unless you directly design some mechanics to promote people to participate (in WF and CQ), they will afk. You can't physically control the players hand and make them do something, all you can do is add incentive.

    Speaking of incentive. I have a question for the Devs: Can we get Bis PvP armor for participating in pvp? Is there any chance of this happening?

    The "pvp is a joke" thread is a harsh title but its time to realize that this might be a real imagine in the minds of many current rift players.

    Ask yourself: "What is pvp for?" Lately it's become a source of additional fragments for players. So many disillusioned players are taking the easy path to afk in order to get marks for the best pve gear (which they may or may not use for pve). This is exactly why you can't and you shouldn't provide bis pve (player vs. environment) for pvp activities.

    Because you can afk your way into he best raid gear which is not fair.

    However, how is new situation fair to dedicated PvPers? Those who have to struggle with this new source of afkers.

    Those who play with guildies and coordinate to try to win? Those who join a pug and try to rally strangers for a win? How is it fair to those who truly enjoy your pvp and spend exorbitant amounts of time queueing wf after wf with no regard for the prizes and just wish to partake in an activity you (supposedly) want people to engage in.

    Now look at this.

    If I join a wf, afk and then happen to win. I'll get zero favor/prestige, however I will still end up with a winners chest, charge completed and a portion of my weekly done.

    This example shows you the direct prizes people are joining for. (An afk) chest/charge/weekly win. You are giving away free prizes for afking. You are endorsing their behavior. You don't endorse afking in raiding to win, why should you do it for pvp?

    In contract: If you made them actually purchase these chests or items with favor gated (yes gated or dare I say regulated) by prestige.

    Then they have two options: Actually participate for kills and or hold objectives for favor/prestige ticks in wf. Or join CQ and hope for a tie so they could build favor/prestige.

    This encourages actual player participation and involvement. Two currently trending problems could potentially be mitigated with the re-activation of mechanics you already have in place.

    Now as for the BiS pvp gear part.

    If I form a pvp guild or a cq guild shouldn't I be encouraged in my activity just as much as someone who builds a raiding guild?

    If I put in time building a roster of people, spend time finding/planning strategies for wf/cq map, spend time in the trenches of instanced pvp (or re-activated open world pvp). Shouldn't I be rewarded for that time?

    If I spend 200 hours grinding favor and prestige shouldn't I be able to spend that currency on a (activity related) item that's worth 200 hours? I mean you have a pvp server that is dying because the game doesn't reward you for doing what the server is made for, PVP.

    *NB4* This argument always comes to a point when someone who doesn't read anything I've written and blindly writes,
    "Grinding those hours in pvp doesn't entitle you to best in slot player vs. environment armor."
    (*spoiler* no one is ask for that. I don't think anyone is in favor of giving away BiS raid (PvE) armor from any activity other than raiding).

    However, no one. NOT ONE PERSON OR DEV has answered the question. If a dedicated person grinds X00 amount of hours worth of currency (favor/prestige) in PvP (player vs. player). Why doesn't that entitle them to a weapon/armor/trinket/earring/ring of equivalency in that activity PvP (player vs. player)?

    So I'll ask for the billion and 1 time.

    Someone/anyone please explain to me: Why can't we get best in slot PvP armor for participating in pvp?

    *please note*
    This is a real question for the devs so I hope for some kind of answer. As it will help me and possibly others determine if we want to continue in your community or not. Despite all my previous critiques I've given 3.0 a good run because you seemed to try to solve many of the pvp problems.

    However, I would like to know your future plans (at least a brief scope, what's on the table and what's not) for pvp before I begin to farm another set of gear in 3.2.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    the approach the devs take is that no gear is BiS of pvp or BiS for pve. there is only gear that is BiS for Rift.
    they are treating the game as a whole, not as component parts.

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    Ascendant asianguywithacamera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    the approach the devs take is that no gear is BiS of pvp or BiS for pve. there is only gear that is BiS for Rift.
    they are treating the game as a whole, not as component parts.
    Except the fact that weapons, BiS, are from pve. There is no way to obtain them via PvP. Only once 3.2 is released will PvP players have access to them but by then, pve players will have t2 weapons, which will be BiS. Again, PvP players are handicapped by the weapons.

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    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asianguywithacamera View Post
    Except the fact that weapons, BiS, are from pve. There is no way to obtain them via PvP. Only once 3.2 is released will PvP players have access to them but by then, pve players will have t2 weapons, which will be BiS. Again, PvP players are handicapped by the weapons.
    you mean the BiS weapons are from Rift. there is no way to obtain them outside of playing Rift. once 3.2 is released the Rift players will have access to new BiS weapons through playing Rift.

    don't get me wrong, I actually agree with your point - but trion doesn't.
    I'd much prefer for every item (including consumables) that are BiS for pvp to come from pvp.
    unfortunately, trion does not see it this way.

    also, a big problem isn't so much getting gear from participating in pvp, its getting those players in pvp to participate in the pvp. as long as trions "advancement though failure and AFKing" policy remains in place for pvp, we cant justify giving good gear for pvp.
    we need to change that before we can change the gear.

  5. #5
    Champion Bluntmaster's Avatar
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    play a tiny portion of the game, expect tiny rewards.
    #1 at selecting a target and pressing a button.

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    Until Trion deals properly with AFK in warfronts and CQ then everything a PVPr does will seem less worthy. You can report folks for being AFK .. if you tell them to participate you get a mouth full of foul language.

    Weekly kills is one of the biggest reasons for AFKing. They should have made it wins per week in any type of warfronts ..not simply Guns .. and more wins than 9.

    Proper participation should give rewards.

    I dislike premades who should not be in warfronts. CQ but not warfronts.

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara
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    The ELO matchmaking is broken. AFKing isn;t the main problem. It is the fact that Trion matchmaking system will put 4k average premade vs. 2.5k average team and call it fair. And actually they say that the ELO will not change much if even they win or lose so you can constantly be matched against the same team over and over and over. Pretty much making the PM grief the same players over and over again.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    At one point, this game followed a CRAZY scheme.

    PvP'ing got you the best PvP gear. And raiding got you the best PvE gear.

    I mean, absolute insanity. Mind blowing absurdness. Outlandish tomfoolery. Or do I dare even say...shenanigans?
    Last edited by Violacea; 04-11-2015 at 04:59 PM.
    New round up of some high rank matches
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  9. #9
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    At one point, this game followed a CRAZY scheme.

    PvP'ing got you the best PvP gear. And raiding got you the best PvE gear.

    I mean, absolute insanity. Mind blowing absurdness. Outlandish tomfoolery. Or do I dare even say...shenanigans?
    and if you recall, the pvpers still asked for more.
    particularly that the pvp gear be brought up to the same level as raid gear.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post

    don't get me wrong, I actually agree with your point - but trion doesn't.
    I'd much prefer for every item (including consumables) that are BiS for pvp to come from pvp.
    unfortunately, trion does not see it this way.

    That's not exactly true. This is why Trion created down bolsering. The answer to this, and many other threads, is just to have Trion fully implement their original vision of down bolstering.

    When 3.0 was announced, it was stated in patch notes that PvE gear would get down bolstered so that it would be no better than the best gear obtained via PvP. They have partially implemented down bolstering so that relic gear gets downbolstered, but they have fallen a bit short of their original vision since even non relic PvE gear is superior to the top PvP gear in instanced PvP.

    It seems all Trion needs to do is carryout their original intent of down bolstering and we would all be happy... Even if it doesn't end up perfect, a solid attempt to implement this will go a long way to solving the problem.

  11. #11
    General of Telara littlepoit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdain View Post
    That's not exactly true. This is why Trion created down bolsering. The answer to this, and many other threads, is just to have Trion fully implement their original vision of down bolstering.

    When 3.0 was announced, it was stated in patch notes that PvE gear would get down bolstered so that it would be no better than the best gear obtained via PvP. They have partially implemented down bolstering so that relic gear gets downbolstered, but they have fallen a bit short of their original vision since even non relic PvE gear is superior to the top PvP gear in instanced PvP.

    It seems all Trion needs to do is carryout their original intent of down bolstering and we would all be happy... Even if it doesn't end up perfect, a solid attempt to implement this will go a long way to solving the problem.
    you are right except trion goes MIA every time the question of down bolstering is raised. we know they are reading the forums they just chose to ignore our concerns. either they don't care or they sincerely think Raid gear players deserve an advantage in PvP.... (not sure what is worse).

  12. #12
    Plane Walker Sekirach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    the approach the devs take is that no gear is BiS of pvp or BiS for pve. there is only gear that is BiS for Rift.
    they are treating the game as a whole, not as component parts.
    and echoes of their selfrighteous laughter in the twitch as they kept explaining over and over still haunts me .

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Shaolonfeng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talzoor View Post
    Because you can afk your way into he best raid gear which is not fair.
    It is unfair, I've seen some players just join a warfront and just stand there at the Spawn area, sometimes they are chilling for easy marks and gear, sometimes they just sit there and hurl insults though-out the duration of the warfront and troll the living crap out of us. Gotta love /ignore right?

    I know of one guy that does nothing but troll all the time in general chat(s) the ques for a warfront and does absolutely nothing, ... maybe I should end my response here before I get too worked up lol. Besides, it doesn't really help to complain about this certain issue that will more than likely never be dealt with
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  14. #14
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluntmaster View Post
    play a tiny portion of the game, expect tiny rewards.
    so.... raiding should have tiny rewards too, right?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolonfeng View Post
    It is unfair, I've seen some players just join a warfront and just stand there at the Spawn area, sometimes they are chilling for easy marks and gear, sometimes they just sit there and hurl insults though-out the duration of the warfront and troll the living crap out of us. Gotta love /ignore right?
    (
    While we have all seen folks AFK for various reasons, it's still the exception. If this is a problem, we just need better tools for reporting and harsher penalties etc.

    But overall, I have not seen any concerns raised that are not solved by proper down bolstering. This single issue seems to solve most every problem.

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