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Thread: Why can't we get bis PvP armor for participating in pvp?

  1. #46
    Shield of Telara Talzoor's Avatar
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    To the point. There should be a way to get BiS pvp gear while participating in pvp. It's simply ludicrous to have it any other way. Add in a new (possibly) tiered pvp currency or re-activate some of the ones you already have in place. Add in some of the pvp quests/achieves that people like Nefelia have suggested.

    Incentive to progress in pvp coupled with better normalization will garner more participation in wf/cq, closer battles, et cetera. Resulting in better entertainment for the user and in turn generates a stronger player base for Trion. Making steps in this direction may also open the doors to currently non-bolstered pvp activities (ow pvp - pvp rifts).

    There is no reason why Rift can't be recognized for its pve and pvp.

  2. #47
    Shield of Telara Talzoor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallse View Post
    Clearly the calculation is that the small amount of time to make any of these PVP adjsutments is not worth it. For months Trion has refused to even comment on the PVP issues. Therefore we can assume nothing will change.
    This could be a hard truth. I understand that they are a business first. I made my suggestion with that in mind. However as a user or a player it's my responsibility to tell them honest picture from my perceptive. As a business it's their responsibility to gauge what is the most lucrative option. We present the ideas, they find the way to make them lucrative and applicable.

    Trion may just as well not want to change anything. I was just hoping to hear it from them before making my own decision.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallse View Post
    For months Trion has refused to even comment on the PVP issues. Therefore we can assume nothing will change.
    Let's not be overly cynical. To be fair, Trion has "recently" posted on PvP issues here in the PvP forum about CQ, major essences, ELO and of course a large discussion about the supply caches where they reversed their decisions after hearing from the community. I fully get that the dialogue isn't what we all want, but let's fairly characterize it at least....

    I think the supply cache is a good example of how the PvP community pretty much came together and strongly voiced their desires - coupled with reason. Let's try to do the same thing here and just make a persistent case about how it would be win win for all if Trion were to finish their downbolstering programming. Kronos even gave them specifics on how to implement. I really do think we can get Trion to make these adjustments... It may take longer than we want, but persistence and reason will get us further than the alternative.

  4. #49
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallse View Post
    3) Limit weeklies and double the rewards so PVE players are not forced to PVP to progress
    (This would take a huge bite out of the plague of afkers / semi afkers / etc)
    I'm not so sure that removing the PvEers would be such a good move.
    there might not be enough of a Pvp population left to sustain any kind of queue without them.

    the problem is that Trion is trying to lead the horse to water and make it drink.
    they are trying to do this in both directions, pushing PvPers into PvE and PvEers into PvP.
    those PvPers who accept the push into PvE don't have a choice about participating, once there. the content cant be AFKed to completion, and individuals can be punished if they try (kicked, place on exclusion - ignore - lists).

    the same isn't true for PvEers pushed into PvP.

    so what we have in PvP is horses led to the water (warfronts), but not drinking.
    not only are they not drinking the water, they are effectively pissing in it (not participating).
    we used to enjoy that water, finding it cool and refreshing.
    but we don't enjoy drinking the horse piss and are not only refused any effective means of dealing with it, but have had to watch as the PvE horses have been actively encouraged to continue pissing in it (reduced match (AFK)durations, free wins on losing (AFKing) streaks).

    how does this effect gear from PvP?
    well, PvP cant be considered a "serious" endgame activity as long as players can AFK their way to gear.
    any gear attainable through PvP has to be reduced to the same essentially meaningless level as the activity that awarded it.
    if you want BiS PvP gear from PvP, you have to first address this issue of AFKing your way to success.
    this means taking a hard line against AFKers

  5. #50
    Shield of Telara Talzoor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    if you want BiS PvP gear from PvP, you have to first address this issue of AFKing your way to success.
    I don't agree with the idea that you need to first address the afk issue before you address the bis pvp gear. As I don't see those issues depended on each other.

    I do agree that both the AFK and non BiS PvP gear from PvP are both problems. However, both issues are correlated to (or depended on) pvp progression if you think about it.

    With additional incentive, to pvp, for pvp progression. It could pave the way towards increased engagement. Two problems could potentially be solved with one solution.
    Last edited by Talzoor; 04-14-2015 at 04:47 PM.

  6. #51
    Shield of Telara Talzoor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Debilitato View Post
    PvP players can't get BiS weapons (some armors) for PvP because:

    Open world pvp servers facilitate kill trading - time based gear progression

    Instanced warfronts facilitate team trading - 30 people negotiate turns getting bis gear

    Conquest is one of those maps where 2 teams can collaborate to make sure 1 team definitely loses - negotiated BiS
    In response to this part. If it was a pvp separate progression, they could put a weekly cap on it, just like they do for all the rest of the currency. If it ow-pvp make it daily quests (or even better) tie it into the GUILD quests to encourage guild ow pvp (pvp quests) in open world.

    Its easy for them to control the progression rate and avert people from "kill trading" by offering pvp objectives instead of kill quest in ow pvp.

  7. #52
    Plane Walker Shanoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluntmaster View Post
    Imagine having your work degraded or down bolstered so that youre on even ground with people who WONT put in any effort to get better.
    Imagine being forced to raid with random pugs who afk, won't/can't play useful raid specs, completely ignore objectives and mechanics, and stand around calling you a hacker/cheater because you actually do try to work together to accomplish the objectives (kills/win)

    Which is the bigger challenge/greater frustration? Welcome to PvP!

  8. #53
    Champion Fallse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdain View Post
    Let's not be overly cynical. To be fair, Trion has "recently" posted on PvP issues here in the PvP forum about CQ, major essences, ELO and of course a large discussion about the supply caches where they reversed their decisions after hearing from the community. I fully get that the dialogue isn't what we all want, but let's fairly characterize it at least....

    I think the supply cache is a good example of how the PvP community pretty much came together and strongly voiced their desires - coupled with reason. Let's try to do the same thing here and just make a persistent case about how it would be win win for all if Trion were to finish their downbolstering programming. Kronos even gave them specifics on how to implement. I really do think we can get Trion to make these adjustments... It may take longer than we want, but persistence and reason will get us further than the alternative.
    You are correct in that ELO / Essences / CQ have been discussed - I guess I just don't really count that as those are so far removed from the issues that most of the PVP'ers I hang out with think are important. ELO matters only in so far as the matchmaking system and that has NOT been addressed, CQ well that's a disaster, essences eh ok that is more meaningful but still a minute detail in the overall scheme of the PVP communities issues.

    I don't mean to sound trite - its just that we all know what the big complaints are ... there are threads ad nauseum about them - and those seem to be on the do not address list.
    Last edited by Fallse; 04-15-2015 at 08:14 AM.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallse View Post
    You are correct in that ELO / Essences / CQ have been discussed - I guess I just don't really count that as those are so far removed from the issues that most of the PVP'ers I hang out with think are important. ELO matters only in so far as the matchmaking system and that has NOT been addressed, CQ well that's a disaster, essences eh ok that is more meaningful but still a minute detail in the overall scheme of the PVP communities issues.

    I don't mean to sound trite - its just that we all know what the big complaints are ... there are threads ad nauseum about them - and those seem to be on the do not address list.
    I appreciate your position for sure... Don't forget the supply cache where they were quite responsive, even reversing their announcement. I also agree with you that I wish they would address the PvP concerns more, but I also accept that I am playing a game that's FTP where the PvP doesn't seem to generate much of the revenue. There seems to be pretty limited Dev resources and the PvP community isn't a huge priority. I don't really fault them for that as I suspect they are spending their limited resources in the areas most valued by those supporting the company. That leaves us in a challenging position, but I still have enough fun in the game (I pretty much only play WF's) with the hope they will fix some of the larger PvP flaws. But I am here of my own choice and accept the company for who they are, not who I wish they would be.

    As Kronos seems to like the analogies, I will drop one here as well. We are like the tenant who pays no rent but is asking the landlord to fix the apartment. We are pretty much always going to be last in line... But we have a better chance of getting something fixed if we keep asking nicely and don't expect anything too extravagant...

  10. #55
    Ascendant Baramos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    The evil genie grants another wish.

    It's like the Twilight Zone episode. Guy kept getting cynical wishes granted from a genie. Finally wished to be the most powerful person on the Earth and was warped back and made into Hitler.

    (Although probably not much time warping as it seems considering the era of that show)
    in before Godwin's law

  11. #56
    Plane Walker Sekirach's Avatar
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    English definition of “where there's a will there's a way”
    where there's a will there's a way

    › used to mean that if you are determined enough, you can find a way to achieve what you want, even if it is very difficult


    many good/bad/ugly ways were suggested all over the forums.

    the will is lacking.

  12. #57
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    I haven't read the whole thread (yet), i just read the opening post and i can only say Awesome Thread! Those thoughts are in the heads of many PvP players since 3.0 came out and removing the PvP gear and gear changing buff (yes this was one of the main reasons for the drawback in PvP).
    And since then the "pvp is a joke" is the most correct sentence to describe the problem. In my honest opinion as player with 23 years of gaming experience mostly playing PvP games, because i found no challenge in repeating PvE mechanics i can suggest TRION to hire some people for their PvP team who actually have played pvp a lot, or atleast listen to people who play PvP a lot and learn (this is even easier and less effort). Because people find it easier to avoid the problem rather dealing with it - change to another PvP game than trying to convince developers what is good to keep their PvP shards and PvP content in good shape, without forcing people to leave another good game due to many bad decisions taken.

    P.s. Sadly we all know the answers that pvp in Rift won't be improved as PvP but as PvE instead, because the lack of PvP players and income. Well with those actions taken and direction the game is going no wonder they are leaving and PvP is lacking people. For example Arena in PvP would be sweet or more 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 maps but hell no, we'll rather make another Dungeon or Raid so you can jump like monkeys at bosses with the same mechanics all over again and repeat it daily/weekly. You can simply remove the PvP. In current state is almost equal to worthless sticking in game because of it. As the author of the thread said PvE players only come for free win/marks and PvP players are a myth in this game, they don't even exist anymore. So assuming this is pointless to make improvements to PvP, better down it to the ground and remove it at one point. Maybe in 3.5 patch.
    Last edited by moodkiller; 04-15-2015 at 02:46 PM.

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