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Thread: Please nerf healers

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    Rift Disciple Fomal's Avatar
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    Default Please nerf healers

    Please start to nerf healers in PvP. Its currently like fighting against windmills. The peak of perversion is Crosshealing. Today in Black Garden some players of the opponents grouped in the middle. We burst everything against them we have had, but their hp didnt move just one millimeter. I know the role of Healer is important for PvP but the current influnce of Healers is just unreasonable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fomal View Post
    Please start to nerf healers in PvP. Its currently like fighting against windmills. The peak of perversion is Crosshealing. Today in Black Garden some players of the opponents grouped in the middle. We burst everything against them we have had, but their hp didnt move just one millimeter. I know the role of Healer is important for PvP but the current influnce of Healers is just unreasonable.
    The root cause of God-mode healers is bad DPS specs, lack of CC, and lack of focus fire.

    If your target's health bar did not move a single bit, chances are he is the focus of a Purifier's healing. Go rage against shielding. Or better yet, find the Purifier, CC him, and focus him down.

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    Ascendant asianguywithacamera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fomal View Post
    Please start to nerf healers in PvP. Its currently like fighting against windmills. The peak of perversion is Crosshealing. Today in Black Garden some players of the opponents grouped in the middle. We burst everything against them we have had, but their hp didnt move just one millimeter. I know the role of Healer is important for PvP but the current influnce of Healers is just unreasonable.
    It's simple math. Their dps > your heals or their heals > your dps. If they have superior heals and superior dps, well, good luck.

    This is a typical match for me. You simply can't do anything when the other team has 45% more damage output and better heals. Our cleric wasn't even using Divine Favor ><
    http://i.imgur.com/QFshjEV.jpg

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    Shield of Telara Dizbo's Avatar
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    Default A Dirty, Perverted Under-the-Influence Cross-Healer

    Quote Originally Posted by fomal View Post
    please start to nerf healers in pvp. Its currently like fighting against windmills. The peak of perversion is crosshealing. Today in black garden some players of the opponents grouped in the middle. We burst everything against them we have had, but their hp didnt move just one millimeter. I know the role of healer is important for pvp but the current influnce of healers is just unreasonable.
    ==
    Dear Fomal:
    Perhaps you have not read:
    Thread: http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...ml#post5015877

    Specifically this entry:
    2-23-2015 - 2:39pm-
    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    I don't have the numbers in front of me right now, but in response to the original title of this thread:

    One of our engineers did a study of group comp and wins for warfronts over a multi week (maybe month) time period a while back. What he found was, a team with more healers (where both sides do have healers), lost more often than the team with one extra DPS that knew what they were doing.

    ~Daglar
    ---
    Perhaps you would like another study group run?


    Sincerely,
    A Dirty, Perverted Under-the-Influence Cross-Healer

    P.S. One inside secret is we only allow our teammates to lose more than a millimeter of health if someone starts a bonfire under the Fang in Blackgarden, we canít resist roasting marshmellows.

    P.P.S. Sometimes an incomplete Toolbox is the problem.


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    Plane Walker regall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizbo View Post
    ==
    Dear Fomal:
    Perhaps you have not read:
    Thread: http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...ml#post5015877

    Specifically this entry:
    2-23-2015 - 2:39pm-

    ---
    Perhaps you would like another study group run?


    Sincerely,
    A Dirty, Perverted Under-the-Influence Cross-Healer

    P.S. One inside secret is we only allow our teammates to lose more than a millimeter of health if someone starts a bonfire under the Fang in Blackgarden, we canít resist roasting marshmellows.

    P.P.S. Sometimes an incomplete Toolbox is the problem.

    Fang? Bite me.

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    Rift Master Nantucket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizbo View Post
    P.S. One inside secret is we only allow our teammates to lose more than a millimeter of health if someone starts a bonfire under the Fang in Blackgarden, we canít resist roasting marshmellows.

    Why do the marshmallows roasted under the Fang taste so much better than regular ones?

    Tis a mystery I don't want to ever figure out!
    Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, well, he eats you.

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    Plane Touched Sinsalot's Avatar
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    hahahahaha. Why do you guys keep listening to him?

    If Daglar knows what a "dps that knows what he is doing" looks like he should put that formula into the warfront queue system.


    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    I don't have the numbers in front of me right now, but in response to the original title of this thread:

    One of our engineers did a study of group comp and wins for warfronts over a multi week (maybe month) time period a while back. What he found was, a team with more healers (where both sides do have healers), lost more often than the team with one extra DPS that knew what they were doing.

    ~Daglar

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    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefelia View Post
    The root cause of God-mode healers is bad DPS specs, lack of CC, and lack of focus fire.

    If your target's health bar did not move a single bit, chances are he is the focus of a Purifier's healing. Go rage against shielding. Or better yet, find the Purifier, CC him, and focus him down.
    This isn't true at all.

    http://i.imgur.com/wa9pZcQ.jpg

    Note that the HPS meter doesn't show absorbs from Puris. In this case, the enemy team had a Dominator on me the entire match, in addition to a Cabalist. Not enough CC? I spent more time CC'd than I did not, and I still pulled almost 7k HPS in LBV, while an LGV Chloro pulled 5.5k.

    People still died, occasionally, but the amount of time, pressure, and coordination it takes to completely wipe a team with that many healers is impossible to achieve when all of those healers have battle rezzes and can return from the spawn point in ~15 seconds. The (almost) completely unrestricted cross-healing (I took 3.2 million damage -- that's 3.6k DPS on me alone over the 14:47 duration -- and never died) made it impossible for either side to win.

    It's simply more difficult for DPS to coordinate and focus in a completely PUG group than it is for healers. If someone takes damage, you heal them. There are far more considerations for DPS. If you think Hundreds and Hikos are "bad DPS" you're delusional.

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    Plane Walker
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    All,

    Please nerf paper it is too strong, but leave scissors alone they are fine.

    Yours Truly,

    Rock.

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    Champion Bluntmaster's Avatar
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    So the 60+ percent nerf wasnt enough to help dps, that nerf to heals was a buff to dps, and still the ceiling is too high. Maybe dps just cant see the health bars hanging out 35m away, to assist more quickly, hiding in the backlines ?

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    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluntmaster View Post
    So the 60+ percent nerf wasnt enough to help dps, that nerf to heals was a buff to dps, and still the ceiling is too high. Maybe dps just cant see the health bars hanging out 35m away, to assist more quickly, hiding in the backlines ?
    Or maybe the size of the global healing reduction isn't the problem, and the fact that healers never run out of resources and have no restrictions on keeping each other alive is?

  12. #12
    Shield of Telara Dizbo's Avatar
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    Default Great points and the Double H

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    This isn't true at all.

    http://i.imgur.com/wa9pZcQ.jpg

    Note that the HPS meter doesn't show absorbs from Puris. In this case, the enemy team had a Dominator on me the entire match, in addition to a Cabalist. Not enough CC? I spent more time CC'd than I did not, and I still pulled almost 7k HPS in LBV, while an LGV Chloro pulled 5.5k.

    1) People still died, occasionally, but the amount of time, pressure, and coordination it takes to completely wipe a team with that many healers is impossible to achieve when all of those healers have battle rezzes and can return from the spawn point in ~15 seconds. The (almost) completely unrestricted cross-healing (I took 3.2 million damage -- that's 3.6k DPS on me alone over the 14:47 duration -- and never died) made it impossible for either side to win.

    2) It's simply more difficult for DPS to coordinate and focus in a completely PUG group than it is for healers. If someone takes damage, you heal them. There are far more considerations for DPS. If you think Hundreds and Hikos are "bad DPS" you're delusional.
    ===

    1) Sometimes seems like few wait for the brez - most click respawn instantly. Hope they read your comment and give the healers a chance to brez. Sometimes my graveyard shift is longer than 15s sometimes... just bad timing/luck.

    2) Hundreds and Hikos are definitely stylish but I get the hell out of dodge as fast as possible (and they are nice too).

    Would be fun to play with you someday, I don't think we are on at the same time; it's amazing to see a mage heal (no way I could do that).

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    This isn't true at all.

    http://i.imgur.com/wa9pZcQ.jpg

    Note that the HPS meter doesn't show absorbs from Puris. In this case, the enemy team had a Dominator on me the entire match, in addition to a Cabalist. Not enough CC? I spent more time CC'd than I did not, and I still pulled almost 7k HPS in LBV, while an LGV Chloro pulled 5.5k.

    People still died, occasionally, but the amount of time, pressure, and coordination it takes to completely wipe a team with that many healers is impossible to achieve when all of those healers have battle rezzes and can return from the spawn point in ~15 seconds. The (almost) completely unrestricted cross-healing (I took 3.2 million damage -- that's 3.6k DPS on me alone over the 14:47 duration -- and never died) made it impossible for either side to win.

    It's simply more difficult for DPS to coordinate and focus in a completely PUG group than it is for healers. If someone takes damage, you heal them. There are far more considerations for DPS. If you think Hundreds and Hikos are "bad DPS" you're delusional.
    Hikos and Hundreds certainly pulled their weight. Their team managed 34 kills despite the superb healing going on in that match. 34-29 kills. For a drawn out Whitefall battle, I put that on the low range of 'acceptable'.

    I note that you are the only healer on your team with no deaths. Why is that? I can only presume you primarily stuck with the main group and had good positioning throughout. Well played.

    You are correct that 'bad DPS' is not the only factor. It is the most common one in my personal experience. In the match you linked the healing out-performed the DPS. Seems like a good match regardless.

  14. #14
    Champion Nuitaran's Avatar
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    I can't kill a healer. Nerf heals.
    My team is losing badly. It's a premade/gear disparity/role distribution.
    I make excuses for everything because I can't admit that *I* am, in fact, the problem. Things will never get better for me until I admit my shortcomings and stop blaming everyone else for them.
    KABOOM!

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    Ascendant ecru's Avatar
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    shielding really is the problem, not necessarily healing. one shield on someone you're about to kill is enough to stop that next killing blow and allow them to be topped off by the other healers on their team.

    if it were at all possible i'd like to see direct nerfs to shielding abilities and buffs (or the removal of pvp specific nerfs) to healing abilities of puri and physician in pvp to compensate.

    shields are what stop me from killing pretty much every time. rite of the forge is honestly hilarious in pvp, or a nice crit sots, and if that **** showed up on a meter or on the scoreboard the nerf threads would follow shortly after.
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