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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Concerning Bolstered Gear vs. Ephemeral or Higher Gear

  1. #91
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    Once again the player base gets worked over by TRION. People not only worked hard for the credits but paid real money. Now they show us quite clearly that gear is not gear when it comes from anything gained in PVP. People are going to be more than angry after months of working to put gear together. I think this will be the last straw for many. You should be ashamed TRION. Sorry does not cut it.

  2. #92
    General of Telara littlepoit's Avatar
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    trion just forgot the basics of an mmo.
    when game changing features are released , a free reroll is given to players. in this case gear should disapear and all the game currency spent on upgrading should be refunded....

    except marauder gear is not bought it's looted which makes things much more complicated....

    Trion > punishing pvp players since 2010

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    There is nothing wrong with the analogy.

    Bad stats weight is a problem that needs fixing.
    You aren't happy about the change because "Now, suddenly, after a lot of people have farmed for this gear specifically because of those stat budgets, it's a priority."
    Purifier OP shielding, Reaver FOTM and Chloros being bad at self healing in PvP is a problem that needs fixing. All of them are things you've been somewhat vocal about or at least mentioned more than once.
    So why should they make a change for those 3 things since it's gonna screw up a lot of people who leveled up their characters or geared them only to play those FOTM specs? (Or avoid playing their mage because of Chloro sucking in PvP and if it become good again, then they'll have lost a lot of time not gearing up their mage! How unfair for them.)

    In any case, it's better late than never and unlike you, I'm quite happy Trion is making the change rather than catering to the crybabies who can't adapt.
    The difference is people didn't do hundreds of hours of Warfronts to earn their souls, the souls are a base part of the game. Souls are the mechanism by which you play the game, gear is the mechanism by which you progress your character. Balance problems in these two distinct categories should not be handled the same way, because game mechanics are not something that players earn by playing the game.

    Furthermore, class balance is an entirely different beast when it comes to QA. Trion can tell if the stat budgets for the items are out of whack before they put the items out because they create those stat budgets. It's very easy to predict the outcome of putting gear on live servers, which is not always the case with souls. Feedback was given in this very forum and other channels about how bizarre the stat weighting on PvP gear was; they never once acknowledged it as unintended or a problem, never once said they intended to fix it, and players proceeded to gear their characters accordingly.

    Here, let me show you a proper analogy: imagine that next week, Trion decided to change all the DPS procs on relic weapons to healing procs and all the healing procs to DPS procs, and no upgrade paths were given to reverse this change. Guilds who had distributed weapons under the impression that those weapons would continue to be appropriate for their recipients' roles get shafted. Trion says, "oh well, the procs were intended to be this way, we just never told you about it, and adjusted the procs in the past despite knowing that they were wrong".

    That is what's happening here.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    The difference is people didn't do hundreds of hours of Warfronts to earn their souls, the souls are a base part of the game. Souls are the mechanism by which you play the game, gear is the mechanism by which you progress your character. Balance problems in these two distinct categories should not be handled the same way, because game mechanics are not something that players earn by playing the game.
    So the hundreds of hours some people spent in leveling up their character to play FOTM class and gear it up for easy iWin doesn't count?

    Well yeah, it's not as blatant and it's not as hard to digest as our awesome gear getting it's stats normalized, but it is similar regardless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    Furthermore, class balance is an entirely different beast when it comes to QA. Trion can tell if the stat budgets for the items are out of whack before they put the items out because they create those stat budgets. It's very easy to predict the outcome of putting gear on live servers, which is not always the case with souls. Feedback was given in this very forum and other channels about how bizarre the stat weighting on PvP gear was; they never once acknowledged it as unintended or a problem, never once said they intended to fix it, and players proceeded to gear their characters accordingly.
    That is true, but it doesn't change the fact that the stats are disproportionate and that it's still better late than never.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    Here, let me show you a proper analogy: imagine that next week, Trion decided to change all the DPS procs on relic weapons to healing procs and all the healing procs to DPS procs, and no upgrade paths were given to reverse this change. Guilds who had distributed weapons under the impression that those weapons would continue to be appropriate for their recipients' roles get shafted. Trion says, "oh well, the procs were intended to be this way, we just never told you about it, and adjusted the procs in the past despite knowing that they were wrong".

    That is what's happening here.
    Are you even serious?

    There is a major difference between balancing something that is out of proportion and making an item of a certain usage do something else completely.
    Last edited by Snap; 03-12-2015 at 09:05 PM.
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  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    There is nothing wrong with the analogy.

    Bad stats weight is a problem that needs fixing.
    You aren't happy about the change because "Now, suddenly, after a lot of people have farmed for this gear specifically because of those stat budgets, it's a priority."
    Purifier OP shielding, Reaver FOTM and Chloros being bad at self healing in PvP is a problem that needs fixing. All of them are things you've been somewhat vocal about or at least mentioned more than once.
    So why should they make a change for those 3 things since it's gonna screw up a lot of people who leveled up their characters or geared them only to play those FOTM specs? (Or avoid playing their mage because of Chloro sucking in PvP and if it become good again, then they'll have lost a lot of time not gearing up their mage! How unfair for them.)

    In any case, it's better late than never and unlike you, I'm quite happy Trion is making the change rather than catering to the crybabies who can't adapt.
    So for those players that spent fragments on non-cp gear because we were cp capped, can we get a refund? Of course not. It would be too much work for them to refund hundreds of others that made gear choices that are now negated by this change.

    Of course, it must've been too much work for them back in October when the players made numerous comments about upbolstering not being quite right. If they would've spent just a small amount of resources back then, this conversation wouldn't even occur.
    Last edited by asianguywithacamera; 03-13-2015 at 04:02 AM.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoMo1 View Post
    Once again the player base gets worked over by TRION. People not only worked hard for the credits but paid real money.
    So Trion made you play a game that feasts on your wallet carelessly? Just keeping it real.
    Last edited by Violacea; 03-13-2015 at 05:31 AM.
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  7. #97
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    This will ruin the game more than they think. Raid progression may be a lot slower and since CP has been the new way for dps to burst down healers since SL pvp will be a mess.

    It is like an equation with factors in which one factor the dev just doesn't like because of his own bias reasons(or possibly a very pathetic attempt at a money grab.)

    If the factor is made to his liking, in this case the budget of the stat is too high (although it doesn't really matter if it is high since it still has a soft cap to prevent it getting excessively powerful and there are other stats that have not cap), he just ruined many of the other factors in the equation that fit together much better.

    The change now created workloads on other devs so they have to reevaluate bolstering dps/healing reductions in pvp and classes, stat weights of gear combinations outside of it all.

    Now take a look something simple the dev could have done which would have caused less grief. Go to the mage forums, see my post from november in the front page still? Why are clerics still needing on mage Totek's Will? Changing the value of the Flamescaper and removing clerics from being able to need on that staff would have saved the community from a lot of grief. Did they care to change it? No.

    They chose to waste development on this superficial change when they could have spent time theorycrafting a better solution to loot distribution or other ideas that would have generated an influx of cash that didn't require rolling back players and having devs reevaluate mostly every factor in the game which is now them taking money, our money and their own company money and throwing it in the trash.
    Last edited by Planetx; 03-13-2015 at 07:19 AM.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    So Trion made you play a game that feasts on your wallet carelessly? Just keeping it real.
    Or they can just wait the two months which is about how far back they set me, I know others were set back more but T2 gear will be out and usually pvp gear gets another tier. I don't think anyone should reinvest to be honest. If I reinvested it would probably be around 40$ to get back to where I was almost immediately. That is nothing for a lot of people who love Rift.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 03-13-2015 at 07:35 AM.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Planetx View Post
    Now take a look something simple the dev could have done which would have caused less grief. Go to the mage forums, see my post from november in the front page still? Why are clerics still needing on mage Totek's Will? Changing the value of the Flamescaper and removing clerics from being able to need on that staff would have saved the community from a lot of grief. Did they care to change it? No.
    I usually don't like Plantex' posts so you know things are bad when I click on the Like button.

  10. #100
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    PTS comparison.txt

    So I finally got to copy over to PTS and did some stat weight calculations on my existing gear versus what is on PTS. This is a nerf.

    Formula using Generic Rule of Thumb Mage Stat Weights.
    =(Int*.9)+(Wis*.3)+(End*.5)+(SpCrit*.34)+(CP*.85)+ SP

    Difference is
    +340 Int
    +463 Wis
    -5 End
    +80 SP (gained only through Int\Wis, loss of 290 pure SP )
    +401.5 Spell Crit (again through Int\Wis)
    -391 CP

    In weighted score of the item I am losing 180 as the increases in main stat and secondary stat does not match the loss in tertiary stats.

    To me it isn't that they are changing the gear so much as they are changing the gear and nerfing it to lesser stats as opposed to current stats. If the item actually weighted the Int gains to actually make up for the loss of CP it would be a different matter to me as it would be an item of equal value.
    Last edited by Tollwutig; 03-13-2015 at 10:02 AM.

  11. #101
    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asianguywithacamera View Post
    So for those players that spent fragments on non-cp gear because we were cp capped, can we get a refund? Of course not. It would be too much work for them to refund hundreds of others that made gear choices that are now negated by this change.

    Of course, it must've been too much work for them back in October when the players made numerous comments about upbolstering not being quite right. If they would've spent just a small amount of resources back then, this conversation wouldn't even occur.
    I never said it's not wrong that they are late.

    I said it's better late than never.
    Last edited by Snap; 03-13-2015 at 12:39 PM.
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  12.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #102
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    PTS just got updated with a revised version of bolstering. Instead of trying to match bolstered gear and Maruader+ gear with every other piece of gear in the game, I've just made bolstered gear match the stat allocations that Marauder+ has.

    Additionally with this change, each slot in bolstered now has a set tertiary stat that it boosts instead of splitting between all 3 that a calling would want. The breakdown is as follows:

    AP/SP: Legs, Neck, Rings, 1h Weapon, 2h Weapon, Off-Hand, Shield
    SC/PC: Cape, Chest, Boots, Gloves, Helmet
    CP: Earrings, Essences

    The difference going from bolstered to full set of Marauder's (in the main stat heavy version) is:

    Main: +655
    Secondary: +117
    Endurance: -163
    AP/SP: +75
    SC/PC: +176
    CP: +108

    Provided that you keep the same tertiary stat distribution as the bolster gear.

    Jump on PTS and try it out!

    I'll update the first post with this information as well.

  13. #103
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    My gear is now reverted back to Live so I'm happy with that. Thanks Vladd; just changing bolstered gear stats seems like a fine idea.

  14. #104
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    Ephemeral and Dreambreaker Greater still have old proc values.
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  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post

    Additionally with this change, each slot in bolstered now has a set tertiary stat that it boosts instead of splitting between all 3 that a calling would want. The breakdown is as follows:

    AP/SP: Legs, Neck, Rings, 1h Weapon, 2h Weapon, Off-Hand, Shield
    SC/PC: Cape, Chest, Boots, Gloves, Helmet
    CP: Earrings, Essences
    If that is true can you explain why my CP increases when I switch from 1h expert epic weapon (with S.Crit) to raid relic 1h (pure SP) in a CQ (it gets bolstered down)? It gave me extra 134 CP. Shouldn't I get extra SP ?
    Last edited by Lokken`; 03-13-2015 at 01:56 PM.
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