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Thread: wanna fix premade warfronts?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default wanna fix premade warfronts?

    imo if you want to reduce premades in warfronts give people that are queuing together a reason to queue together. introduce a arena and or rated system. Have it produce gear that is comparable to raid gear. imo i feel like one of the main reasons people are queuing together is because thats the only thing to do for pvp other then world pvp. I feel that if this was to get introduced it would take away from premades and give normal non ranked warfronts a more enjoyable experience for those queuing alone.

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    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jukedhard View Post
    imo if you want to reduce premades in warfronts give people that are queuing together a reason to queue together. introduce a arena and or rated system. Have it produce gear that is comparable to raid gear. imo i feel like one of the main reasons people are queuing together is because thats the only thing to do for pvp other then world pvp. I feel that if this was to get introduced it would take away from premades and give normal non ranked warfronts a more enjoyable experience for those queuing alone.
    the only reason players are queuing together is because its the only way to end a match with the same five players you started with, these days.

    ok, maybe that's not only the reason, but with the way things are right now, it is a perfectly valid reason.

    if they are going to make any more changes to warfronts, they should be changes that directly address the quitter/afker plague.

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    if they are going to make any more changes to warfronts, they should be changes that directly address the quitter/afker plague.
    Yes I agree.
    Well, that and getting rid of the matching algo.

    But it is complicated.

    I now sometimes afk, probably only if I join alone and it is EVIDENT that we can't win, and I can't make any difference. Ok sure if I feel I can make a difference I fight on, but if I only serve as something for the enemy team to toy with, then no thank you.
    Especially now as I may as well go make some coffee and yet not get kicked (not saying it is good, but it is what it is).

    - Bring back severe afk/quitting penalties
    - Make match making random to avoid the long streaks of hopeless games/easy wins
    - Bring back more meaning to actually winning the match, even if not in quest (not sure exactly how, maybe make Mara chest less common again <gasp>)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    the only reason players are queuing together is because its the only way to end a match with the same five players you started with, these days.

    ok, maybe that's not only the reason, but with the way things are right now, it is a perfectly valid reason.

    if they are going to make any more changes to warfronts, they should be changes that directly address the quitter/afker plague.
    The reason I've heard and seen over years in Rift PVP for forming a premade is to get more points for their forum PVP team with carried screenshots of KB's and healing done to themselves, sometimes it even exceeds damage taken. That's extra points right there.

    Who's leading the forum PVP now? The list has gone missing.

    Also people premade to stomp players because they can't single queue and actually play their spec without getting diaper changes in the middle of the match by 2 pocket healers.
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    I think 3 should be the maximum allowable premade size for a warfront. It should be easy enough to get another 3 low ranking cluless afking pve pugs to pair with them to even out the team. 5 is a little tough to find all at once.

    Or maybe only allow 5 man premades to queue for certain larger maps? Like scion, blighted, ghar, karthan.

    This way, at least I can still choose to solo queue by specifically queueing for smaller maps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    the only reason players are queuing together is because its the only way to end a match with the same five players you started with, these days.

    ok, maybe that's not only the reason, but with the way things are right now, it is a perfectly valid reason.

    if they are going to make any more changes to warfronts, they should be changes that directly address the quitter/afker plague.
    It's really too bad video games have gotten to a point where consequences need to be dealt out if you choose to disengage in the video game at any given time. Pretty sad imo. In a reasonable world you should be able to quit whenever you want, with no fear or consequence. It is a damn video game. Not a school assignment or work task.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    It's really too bad video games have gotten to a point where consequences need to be dealt out if you choose to disengage in the video game at any given time. Pretty sad imo. In a reasonable world you should be able to quit whenever you want, with no fear or consequence. It is a damn video game. Not a school assignment or work task.
    haha yeh, when you put it like that right. To me, afkers/quitters are not any worse than the cool kids who have to badmouth everyone at the end of a losing game.

    I just put them all on ignore.....and hope I never Q with them.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post
    haha yeh, when you put it like that right. To me, afkers/quitters are not any worse than the cool kids who have to badmouth everyone at the end of a losing game.

    I just put them all on ignore.....and hope I never Q with them.
    Premades should only be allowed to queue against other premades...problem solved.

    The greatly increased afk/quitters is directly linked to the reduced number of players in warfronts which then pits much more ordinary single joiners against organized teams.

    I can't blame anyone for going afk/quitting a warfront because they are being pummelled under those circumstances

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupbone View Post
    Premades should only be allowed to queue against other premades...problem solved.

    The greatly increased afk/quitters is directly linked to the reduced number of players in warfronts which then pits much more ordinary single joiners against organized teams.

    I can't blame anyone for going afk/quitting a warfront because they are being pummelled under those circumstances
    Unfortunately I've seen people just run off to the side, others who stop trying as soon as the points show the other team in the lead. Also seen the term pre-made tossed around as soon as someone is burst down with focused dps.

    I admit I suck at PvP, but I've seen some who make me look like I am a pro. When you get several of these players along with only moderate players and they go against a either a good player or at least an opposing team that cooperates and focuses a target you quickly hear the term pre-made and people stop trying. Removing premades won't fix this issue. These players will still be bad, and still get owned, and will still quit, or afk.

    As Kronos mentioned sometimes queuing with a group is the only way to guarantee you'll still have a group at the end of a fight.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tollwutig View Post
    Unfortunately I've seen people just run off to the side, others who stop trying as soon as the points show the other team in the lead. Also seen the term pre-made tossed around as soon as someone is burst down with focused dps.

    I admit I suck at PvP, but I've seen some who make me look like I am a pro. When you get several of these players along with only moderate players and they go against a either a good player or at least an opposing team that cooperates and focuses a target you quickly hear the term pre-made and people stop trying. Removing premades won't fix this issue. These players will still be bad, and still get owned, and will still quit, or afk.

    As Kronos mentioned sometimes queuing with a group is the only way to guarantee you'll still have a group at the end of a fight.
    A point needs to be made here, what honor is there in a premade pummelling a pickup group in a warfront, this is definatly by far the usual outcome and is the root cause of the increasing afk/quitting problem.

    Pit premades against premades if there is no players left for pickup vs pickup war fronts then the problem takes care of itself.

    Premade groups like it the way it is presently because they get to pummel pickup groups and easily put together win streaks.

    Single joiners to warfronts don't like to be pummeled and quit...seems to be a normal reaction to me. Frustrating to the single joiners that don't quit but I will assure you that if this bad method of queuing is not fixed soon and i do mean soon, then there will be more quitting than ever. Not just warfronts.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupbone View Post
    Pit premades against premades if there is no players left for pickup vs pickup war fronts then the problem takes care of itself.
    You get that this mostly happens right and not all pre-mades are equal? You could just have a group of 5 (or 3 or whatever) from a PvE guild just queuing up together with no voice chat or coordination other than doing an activity ingame together.

    Put that group against an actual PvP pre-made with coordinating specs, strats, voice chat and you may as well be playing against PuGs. The result will always be the same.

    So, pray tell - how do you fix that with the current group system?
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlissaAk View Post
    You get that this mostly happens right and not all pre-mades are equal? You could just have a group of 5 (or 3 or whatever) from a PvE guild just queuing up together with no voice chat or coordination other than doing an activity ingame together.

    Put that group against an actual PvP pre-made with coordinating specs, strats, voice chat and you may as well be playing against PuGs. The result will always be the same.

    So, pray tell - how do you fix that with the current group system?
    Whatever number of players that trion deems to be a premade group then have them queue against other premade groups.

    Let individuals queue until sufficient numbers are available to form 2 teams.

    No guessing with this, very simple easy to understand.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupbone View Post
    A point needs to be made here, what honor is there in a premade pummelling a pickup group in a warfront, this is definatly by far the usual outcome and is the root cause of the increasing afk/quitting problem.

    Pit premades against premades if there is no players left for pickup vs pickup war fronts then the problem takes care of itself.

    Premade groups like it the way it is presently because they get to pummel pickup groups and easily put together win streaks.

    Single joiners to warfronts don't like to be pummeled and quit...seems to be a normal reaction to me. Frustrating to the single joiners that don't quit but I will assure you that if this bad method of queuing is not fixed soon and i do mean soon, then there will be more quitting than ever. Not just warfronts.
    The issue is most of the solo ques now days are people like me, PvEer who queues to complete the weekly for marks and to burn the charges down. I do this when not raiding, to keep marks earning. You'll see an upswing on Wed-Sun as those who reset and are not raiding and then over the weekend as those who raid Wed\Thur.

    Similarly you'll see an upswing of "premades" composed of guild raid groups knocking out the PvP quests together over the weekend. These groups will vary widely in PvP skill and are the most peoples angst over premades. Get stuck with an ineffective one and all premades become evil.

    Unlike me, many are only there for kills or specific wins, so for them it is quicker to queue and let a match end in 5 minutes and re-queue, knowing you're going to be put on a better team than to actually fight and drag out the match a full 15 minutes.

    If you pay attention most close matches happen on Mondays and Tuesdays(at least for me) as the PvE folks have completed their quests, reached the currency cap and have no actual interest in PvP don't bother to queue. I'm usually not as efficient as some so haven't reached cap on Tuesdays and thus am still burning charges.

    The PvEers over all are only interested in completing the quests and burning any charges in the most efficient way possible, Dropping pre-mades out of the queues won't really fix that issue it'll just mean they will be split up and once a team has a lead, soul recall out or let it end. If they are still on Guns For Hire and not winning it is better to let the winning team win quicker than draw out a 15 min match. (Particularly if they can do a NTE in under 10 min)

    Again this doesn't apply to all PvEs but it is a common mindset.

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tollwutig View Post
    The issue is most of the solo ques now days are people like me, PvEer who queues to complete the weekly for marks and to burn the charges down. I do this when not raiding, to keep marks earning. You'll see an upswing on Wed-Sun as those who reset and are not raiding and then over the weekend as those who raid Wed\Thur.

    Similarly you'll see an upswing of "premades" composed of guild raid groups knocking out the PvP quests together over the weekend. These groups will vary widely in PvP skill and are the most peoples angst over premades. Get stuck with an ineffective one and all premades become evil.

    Unlike me, many are only there for kills or specific wins, so for them it is quicker to queue and let a match end in 5 minutes and re-queue, knowing you're going to be put on a better team than to actually fight and drag out the match a full 15 minutes.

    If you pay attention most close matches happen on Mondays and Tuesdays(at least for me) as the PvE folks have completed their quests, reached the currency cap and have no actual interest in PvP don't bother to queue. I'm usually not as efficient as some so haven't reached cap on Tuesdays and thus am still burning charges.

    The PvEers over all are only interested in completing the quests and burning any charges in the most efficient way possible, Dropping pre-mades out of the queues won't really fix that issue it'll just mean they will be split up and once a team has a lead, soul recall out or let it end. If they are still on Guns For Hire and not winning it is better to let the winning team win quicker than draw out a 15 min match. (Particularly if they can do a NTE in under 10 min)

    Again this doesn't apply to all PvEs but it is a common mindset.
    A large number of people quit because of lopsided scoring or put into hoplessly losing causes.

    If this is happening mostly when random individuals join random individual teams then pvp is in big trouble, which will require fixes to the game in general by Trion.

    If it is due in part to premade teams pummeling pickup teams then that part can be fixed by pitting premade teams vs premade teams only. This needs to be done first in order to see if futher fixes to the game are required by Trion.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupbone View Post
    A large number of people quit because of lopsided scoring or put into hoplessly losing causes.

    If this is happening mostly when random individuals join random individual teams then pvp is in big trouble, which will require fixes to the game in general by Trion.

    If it is due in part to premade teams pummeling pickup teams then that part can be fixed by pitting premade teams vs premade teams only. This needs to be done first in order to see if futher fixes to the game are required by Trion.
    As I stated in the other thread (why do we have 2+ of these going) most of those groups are just going to solo queue, because it will be faster and more efficient to solo queue, and if you lose your next wf will pop quickly.

    Here what will happen if you split the queues -
    First the raid groups which are really bad and loath PvP will queue, they'll get ROFL stomped by better groups. Since they aren't there for fun anyways they'll break up and solo queue. As queuing in the pre-made group will be an inefficient way to complete the quest in one night.
    Since the bad groups will leave the Time to Win will increase for the better groups as they will fight hard opponents. This will result in the remaining groups with no actual interest in PvP to break up and solo queue.
    As the queue times get longer the remaining actual PvP premades will solo queue as they are not having fun waiting for 30+ minutes for a WF.

    It is far more efficient to queue, and win\lose in less than 5 minutes to complete the quest than to draw out a WF in a close tie for 15 minutes. This is core problem, and the fun part as RoF, MS, and TT start getting cleared on a regular basis by more guilds it'll go away as those Raiders will reach currency cap via raiding and no longer queue for WFs.

    Some pre-mades queue for efficiency (get in win everyone, stop queuing), some queue to make something tedious more fun for them.

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